New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Matua]

One way to move forward for RU might be to add a few NZ teams (and not scrapping SR as a competition) - either re-jigging the current 5 team boundaries to say 7 or 8.. OR the radical option of scrapping the SR teams and making a number of 1st division unions New Zealand's representatives in SR.

That delivers more of those valuable NZ derbies, but cranks up the competition costs - and getting more money out of a limited (and damn near saturated) pay TV market here in NZ is a challenge - they can't keep cranking up Sky subscription prices.

That's a real challenge for RU, and they've been pondering how to solve it ( Expand to Asia? USA? Argentina? ) but indecision reigns there as there's a fair amount of risk in places that don't naturally follow RU.


Rugby for sure, but it's a moot point currently because Sky is the only game in town (pardon the pun).

FTA tv is broke - Discovery (TV3) and TVNZ have been in a cost cutting frenzy, Spark has ended it's sports coverage ambitions & no other streaming service has stepped forward (Sky's entertainment tv rights deals have prevented the likes of Paramount+ starting here - so far..).. maybe NZR might try broadening its own direct-to-consumer offering, but I don't think they're there yet.


Yeah, the domestic RL scene is disjointed to say the least. The thing RU does well is the pyramid structure of club/NPC/Super Rugby/Tests - having clear windows for each, and being able to publicize Super Rugby, then a test window, then NPC, then end of year Tests.

If the NRL wants a production line of Kiwi talent coming through, we need investment in that base.. and I'm not sure what mix of club versus provincial outlay does that best, because provincial RL seems to have become almost an afterthought these days.

Yeah, if Super went away they'd have to make some tough decisions on whether to create new Super regions or consolidate the NPC. But, either way I think it would do at least as well as Super for Sky, and probably better. If I was being honest and had to choose between the current model and an extended NPC with the Magpies one of the teams then I'm taking NPC. But I think, as you note, the pyramid structure works best for NZ rugby.

I wasn't floating the Sky losing one of the sports as a realistic scenario, just wanting to give our Aussie contributors some context on where Sky's money mostly comes from - it carries more weight coming from you as you are less keen on rugby than most of us NZers on the thread.

I'd love the Lion Red Cup to return, I went to a lot of Unicorns games as my Mum's best mate was the treasurer and some of my mates were in the team. IIRC they used to televise a number of the games back then.

 

[taste2taste]

Can anyone please copy and paste past the paywall?
The timing of this article is too perfect.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/rugby/nrls-seismic-shift-its-time-to-tackle-the-all-blacks/news-story/4ba9b1a8c2acf4d8f8d883c64a0fb4ce?amp

Scroll up to the post from 7:42 pm

 

[Matua]

Given Super Rugby is in decline and currently playing one less game per week, they most certainly understand when their current arrangement is reduced.

While the NRL is taking off an due to increase the amount of games per week by one game they will understandably be increased.

But imagine if that extra game features a new Kiwi team...

Real talk now expert Kiwi:

How long back do you go to find a bigger more exciting addition to the sporting landscape in NZ then the addition of a second NRL club?
Because not only will a new NRL franchise be the hottest ticket in town ( by town, I mean the whole country) but it will be by at least a decade.. Warriors vs South Island will be the highlight ratings professional sporting game probably in New Zealand’s history..

But I'm sure " Sky " a sports channel won't be interested..lol

I'm not so sure Super Rugby is in as much decline as you claim - it had a similar viewership boost to league this year. It seems dead as a large audience live sport though, but that's been the case for a while now.

As for your real talk question, I've never said having a second team wouldn't be a good team, however your prediction of it's impact is a tad hyperbolic. Highest rating professional sports game in NZ history, jesus man.

 

[Matua]

A lot of the momentum for the warriors and league is post covid which at the same time js when union started to struggle with kiwis bored of the format of kiwi teams playing each other so much

WTF are you on about? The post Covid Super Rugby Aotearoa competition had way better crowds than Super Rugby Pacific and NZ derby matches always have much higher viewership than trans tasman matches.

 

[BuffaloRules]

yes, for a service with a subscription audience of less than 1mill its on par. Fox group has 4.7mill subscribers in Australia and pays around three times that for NRL.

So this figure includes 1.5 million Binge subscribers?

Foxtel Group Fiscal 2024 Fourth Quarter and Full Year Earnings

News Corp today released its Fiscal 2024 (FY24) Fourth Quarter (Q4) and Full Year Earnings for the 12 months ended 30 June 2024, including subscriber highlights for the Foxtel Group and financial results for the Subscription Video Services segment. Commenting on the Foxtel Group at News Corp’s FY24…

foxtelgroup.com.au

 

[Gobsmacked]

Yeah, if Super went away they'd have to make some tough decisions on whether to create new Super regions or consolidate the NPC. But, either way I think it would do at least as well as Super for Sky, and probably better. If I was being honest and had to choose between the current model and an extended NPC with the Magpies one of the teams then I'm taking NPC. But I think, as you note, the pyramid structure works best for NZ rugby.

I wasn't floating the Sky losing one of the sports as a realistic scenario, just wanting to give our Aussie contributors some context on where Sky's money mostly comes from - it carries more weight coming from you as you are less keen on rugby than most of us NZers on the thread.

I'd love the Lion Red Cup to return, I went to a lot of Unicorns games as my Mum's best mate was the treasurer and some of my mates were in the team. IIRC they used to televise a number of the games back then.

"Yeah, if Super went away they'd have to make some tough decisions on whether to create new Super regions or consolidate the NPC. But, either way I think it would do at least as well as Super for Sky, and probably better."

Wow, just wow

 

[Matua]

"Yeah, if Super went away they'd have to make some tough decisions on whether to create new Super regions or consolidate the NPC. But, either way I think it would do at least as well as Super for Sky, and probably better."

Wow, just wow

Do you have anything of substance ...?

 

[Gobsmacked]

Do you have anything of substance ...?

I'm all substanced out. Mostly just rhetoric atm but I'm sure we'll have some substanced through in the next couple of weeks.
I'm just really pumped for the NPC , we should expand it..

 

[Matua]

I'm all substanced out. Mostly just rhetoric atm but I'm sure we'll have some substanced through in the next couple of weeks.
I'm just really pumped for the NPC , we should expand it..

Unsurprising you're pumped for the NPC as born and bred Cantabrian.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Unsurprising you're pumped for the NPC as born and bred Cantabrian.

When I was there , that’s all anyone ever talked about. Npc this and npc that lol
NRL doesn't stand a chance up against the might of the npc

 

[Matiunz]

Yeah, if Super went away they'd have to make some tough decisions on whether to create new Super regions or consolidate the NPC. But, either way I think it would do at least as well as Super for Sky, and probably better. If I was being honest and had to choose between the current model and an extended NPC with the Magpies one of the teams then I'm taking NPC. But I think, as you note, the pyramid structure works best for NZ rugby.

I’d suspect we’d hitch our ride to Japan. Align our season so our players can cash in there, play NPC as usual, then have the current NZ Super Rugby sides as sort of a rep season with teams actually drawing on players from their aligned provinces only, play each other once or home/away after the NPC season (or however it aligns). Have the Super Rugby side continue to play touring sides like lions etc and compete in the proposed club World Cup etc. Maybe have something like a every 4 years mini tournament against the SA franchises etc to have content each year

 

[titoelcolombiano]

So why is this going to happen ? Do you think their demise is possibly 15 years away and will be as a result of the NRL putting a team in Christchurch ?

Nah I'd say Super Rugby is already on its last legs, I'd imagine Union will look to change things up which will ultimately turn out to be worse than Super Rugby which will continue to spiral the game in Aus and NZ. At that point, any of the by then 20 NRL clubs will be very attractive and lucrative options over domestic RU in NZ.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Sheesh, we've looped completely back around to stuff we've already discussed multiple times in the thread. Gob you need to rename the thread groundhog day. But Wb seems to be flip flopping between league having no chance to league definitely taking over in NZ.


As you're a Kiwi I respect you opinion a wee bit more than some of the others in this thread. Do you really believe this? NZ rugby currently contributes to Oz for Super, the money is already there. And the most highly supported matches in NZ are NZ derbies. I don't think NZ would have a problem going it alone with Oz. I don't think they should as I'm happy for Oz rugby to exist (and NRL, don't care about Origin and AFL though). The maths for a pro NPC works if Super no longer exists.

Here's a question for you, if Sky lost the rights to the NRL or lost the rights to the rugby in NZ which is going to have the most negative impact on them? Do you honestly think it will be losing the NRL rights?

Another one, do you honestly think league can take over with the state of the domestic game in NZ? There's 6 senior teams in the Canterbury comp where the new frontier in the war against rugby is supposedly going to take off. League barely exists anymore in my home province of HB, the teams that aren't completely gang dominated are made of aging rugby players who don't want to train anymore but want to run around on the weekend.

A domestic Union comp isn't viable otherwise it would already exist. NRL is on the rise, NZRU is on the decline and we're fresh off killing the ARU and decimating their ranks

 

[titoelcolombiano]

True, and the hope would be that successful Australian Super Rugby teams (even if they have a sizable NZ contingent) eventually inspires more talent to come through grass-roots.

Short term dip for hopefully longer term growth.

A gamble, but all Australian RU has now.

f**k Union, long may the death spiral continue

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Yeah but Perth they’re just excited to be noticed. Other states it was sketchy- made the mistake of getting into a coffee convo with a Melbournian and full rant ensued

Victorians aren't real Australians

 

[BuffaloRules]

A domestic Union comp isn't viable otherwise it would already exist. NRL is on the rise, NZRU is on the decline and we're fresh off killing the ARU and decimating their ranks

I think there is an element of wishful thinking happening here …I could say that if adding NZ2 is going to destroy Rugby in NZ, then what are they waiting for ? Should have happened by now right ?

Even if they get the nod now, the NRL doesn’t even want to bring them in for another 6-7 years supposedly ….doesnt seem like they are in a hurry to kill Union over there!

 

[flippikat]

f**k Union, long may the death spiral continue

Oh, I agree - but the whole comment was putting myself in Australian RU's shoes, and speculating how they could conceivably claw their way back.

I would rather see them fall into a tar-pit, though.

 

[Wb1234]

The 2027 union World Cup in oz could be a great audition for cashed up nrl clubs looking for more talent, especially nz2

Whether the nrl does make top level union players contracts salary cap exempt or just that with a higher salary cap of 15 to 16 million dollars more nrl clubs are prepared to take a risk and pay big dollars for a union star

Three estra teams is going to need close to one hundred extra top level players so I’m sure a dozen or so will come from union

 

[Canard]

NZ2 is a no brainer eventually, but basing its whole existence on killing Rah Rah is meth addled thinking. It should be to expand our game viably and create more sponsors, members, TV monies.

Having lived in "Mexico" for many years now, I realise that people think their native sport is better and the other codes are "boring" and it only takes 5 mins of watching their code and you will be hooked for life.

It's why I laugh at the US venture (nothing more than a free junket for RL admin) and any talk of RL taking over in Union countries.

There seems to be an appetite for sport in NZ post Covid (26k at a Soccer game) that hasn't been shown to be long term sustainable yet, and we shouldn't base any decisions on one season of good crowds.

 

[Canard]

The 2027 union World Cup in oz could be a great audition for cashed up nrl clubs looking for more talent, especially nz2

Whether the nrl does make top level union players contracts salary cap exempt or just that with a higher salary cap of 15 to 16 million dollars more nrl clubs are prepared to take a risk and pay big dollars for a union star

Three estra teams is going to need close to one hundred extra top level players so I’m sure a dozen or so will come from union

This is everything that is wrong with Union now, poaching our players for millions at the expense of junior development. And unlike their game it adds ZERO eyeballs to our sport (most Aussies couldn't make one current Union player)

Thankfully NRL teams aren't as dumb as you are, and won't risk millions on untried talent. We will just continue to poach the best talent from junior ranks for a pittance and develop League juniors.