New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Perth Red]

Maybe the wa govt should build a proper rectangular stadium with a roof ?

we live in perth not NZ, we don't need a roof. And the Christchurch stadium isnt getting built because of an NRL club, unlike the HBF upgrade which will only happen if there is an NRL club.

 

[Wb1234]

we live in perth not NZ, we don't need a roof. And the Christchurch stadium isnt getting built because of an NRL club, unlike the HBF upgrade which will only happen if there is an NRL club.

Until the Perth bears get sole use of the new stands then hbf is shared with two other football codes

That chch stadium will be a credit to the nrl whereas hbf park will be just another mundane stadium

 

[Perth Red]

Until the Perth bears get sole use of the new stands then hbf is shared with two other football codes

That chch stadium will be a credit to the nrl whereas hbf park will be just another mundane stadium

and back on the treadmill we go......

No NRL club, no HBF upgrade. Ergo only happening due to the NRl club inclusion, ergo an investment directly related to the NRl club license.
Unlike Christchurch which is being built for Union and is happening regardless of if an NRL teams enters or not.

HBF is being rebuilt for NRL, and soccer and union will benefit.
Christchurch is being built for Union, and NRL could benefit.

Do you understand the nuanced difference?

 

[Matt_CBY]

we live in perth not NZ, we don't need a roof. And the Christchurch stadium isnt getting built because of an NRL club, unlike the HBF upgrade which will only happen if there is an NRL club.

 

[Matua]

Top down is a start

League doesn’t have the money spare to replicate union systems

I would say the grassroots and junior game will grow from more nrl teams

Along the way the arl / nzrl should increase funding for the non nrl club game

Maybe the grassroots will grow with NZ2, but there was negative growth under the Warriors. From day one of this thread I've been pointing out how perilous the domestic game is in NZ, and that the 2023 hype train will need to be built on (and the cracks of that hype are already being shown). Otherwise rugby is still the best development for league players in NZ as that's where the most professional development can be found - a prime example being Tohu Harris who learnt how to be a (professional) sportsman playing rugby at school and how to be a league player in the Storm system.

But, despite that I'd like to see the domestic game built back up so that the area where Tohu and I are from actually has a decent comp again.

 

[Perth Red]

Maybe the grassroots will grow with NZ2, but there was negative growth under the Warriors. From day one of this thread I've been pointing out how perilous the domestic game is in NZ, and that the 2023 hype train will need to be built on (and the cracks of that hype are already being shown). Otherwise rugby is still the best development for league players in NZ as that's where the most professional development can be found - a prime example being Tohu Harris who learnt how to be a (professional) sportsman playing rugby at school and how to be a league player in the Storm system.

But, despite that I'd like to see the domestic game built back up so that the area where Tohu and I are from actually has a decent comp again.

The focus for PNG and WA has been outside investment in grassroots. PNG with its significant pathways and academy programs, WA with schools program funding and matched funding for NRLWA.
Wheres the extra funding for grassroots in NZ coming from? Not talking elite jnr pathway which any new club brings but the actual grassroots stuff? Is the NRL asking the Christchurch or NZ govt for support for NZRL as part of a license opportunity?

 

[Wb1234]

Maybe the grassroots will grow with NZ2, but there was negative growth under the Warriors. From day one of this thread I've been pointing out how perilous the domestic game is in NZ, and that the 2023 hype train will need to be built on (and the cracks of that hype are already being shown). Otherwise rugby is still the best development for league players in NZ as that's where the most professional development can be found - a prime example being Tohu Harris who learnt how to be a (professional) sportsman playing rugby at school and how to be a league player in the Storm system.

But, despite that I'd like to see the domestic game built back up so that the area where Tohu and I are from actually has a decent comp again.

Since the warriors entered the nrl in 95 rugby league has grown

Even if some of that is more Aussie clubs signing kiwi juniors

The focus for PNG and WA has been outside investment in grassroots. PNG with its significant pathways and academy programs, WA with schools program funding and matched funding for NRLWA.
Wheres the extra funding for grassroots in NZ coming from? Not talking elite jnr pathway which any new club brings but the actual grassroots stuff? Is the NRL asking the Christchurch or NZ govt for support for NZRL as part of a license opportunity?

The council or govts might put in money

But nz already has no issues producing players so it’s not essential

Chch will have no problems filling its junior teams with kids

 

[Pippen94]

The focus for PNG and WA has been outside investment in grassroots. PNG with its significant pathways and academy programs, WA with schools program funding and matched funding for NRLWA.
Wheres the extra funding for grassroots in NZ coming from? Not talking elite jnr pathway which any new club brings but the actual grassroots stuff? Is the NRL asking the Christchurch or NZ govt for support for NZRL as part of a license opportunity?

Lol, Perth won't produce a significant amount of players

 

[Perth Red]

Since the warriors entered the nrl in 95 rugby league has grown

Even if some of that is more Aussie clubs signing kiwi juniors

The council or govts might put in money

But nz already has no issues producing players so it’s not essential

Chch will have no problems filling its junior teams with kids

Its not about Christchurch filling its elite pathway teams, its about how many kids are playing the game and the quality of their development BEFORE they get to a Chchurch NRl system. For all of the Warriors being full of NZ kids it hasnt helped them be successful on the field. In fact the most successful Kiwis tend to be the ones not developed in NZ as can be seen by current Kiwi squad.
I woudl have thought growing participation rates and quality pathways at all ages should be essential for any new area looking to come into NRL?

 

[Wb1234]

Its not about Christchurch filling its elite pathway teams, its about how many kids are playing the game and the quality of their development BEFORE they get to a Chchurch NRl system. For all of the Warriors being full of NZ kids it hasnt helped them be successful on the field. In fact the most successful Kiwis tend to be the ones not developed in NZ as can be seen by current Kiwi squad.
I woudl have thought growing participation rates and quality pathways at all ages should be essential for any new area looking to come into NRL?

I didn’t say they shouldn’t do it

But 30 percent of nrl players being kiwis kinda suggests it’s a deep pool of talent

Where are all those good kiwi kids that get scouted by Aussie clubs come from ?

From the current system of league plus union systems

Seriously if 30 percent of nrl players are kiwis now what would it be for 2 nz clubs ?

We are looking down the track where the bulk of nrl players will be islanders, kiwis and potentially when png takes off them too.

 

[Perth Red]

I didn’t say they shouldn’t do it

But 30 percent of nrl players being kiwis kinda suggests it’s a deep pool of talent

Where are all those good kiwi kids that get scouted by Aussie clubs come from ?

From the current system of league plus union systems

Seriously if 30 percent of nrl players are kiwis now what would it be for 2 nz clubs ?

We are looking down the track where the bulk of nrl players will be islanders, kiwis and potentially when png takes off them too.

Its about 21% born in NZ. (161 players in 2023) Being naturally built for the game obviously puts them in the box seat for RL development.

Good question and you'd need to see a much more detailed breakdown of where kids are picked up from to go into Aus systems to know how effective the current jnr RL systems in NZ are and how much more potential they have with some decent investment. Possibly most kids are being developed in union systems not league ones before being scouted by NRL clubs.

Vlad has been very demanding of funding for grassroots for PNG and WA licenses, are the same demands there for NZ South Island?

 

[Matt_CBY]

Vlad has been very demanding of funding for grassroots for PNG and WA licenses, are the same demands there for NZ South Island?

Each bid and location is different and therefore should be judged accordingly.

 

[Wb1234]

Each bid and location is different and therefore should be judged accordingly.

Exactly

 

[Matiunz]

The focus for PNG and WA has been outside investment in grassroots. PNG with its significant pathways and academy programs, WA with schools program funding and matched funding for NRLWA.
Wheres the extra funding for grassroots in NZ coming from? Not talking elite jnr pathway which any new club brings but the actual grassroots stuff? Is the NRL asking the Christchurch or NZ govt for support for NZRL as part of a license opportunity?

It will be highly unlikely to get govt funding for NZ2, it’d be political suicide in the current economic climate.
Can only think of 2 occasions in my lifetime where the government has kicked in significant funding 1 being for Eden park upgrade for RWC2011 and the second being for the America’s cup precinct. Both those occasions were for infrastructure rather than funding. NZ doesn’t fund sports anywhere near the level Aus does.

 

[Pippen94]

Its about 21% born in NZ. (161 players in 2023) Being naturally built for the game obviously puts them in the box seat for RL development.

Good question and you'd need to see a much more detailed breakdown of where kids are picked up from to go into Aus systems to know how effective the current jnr RL systems in NZ are and how much more potential they have with some decent investment. Possibly most kids are being developed in union systems not league ones before being scouted by NRL clubs.

Vlad has been very demanding of funding for grassroots for PNG and WA licenses, are the same demands there for NZ South Island?

Just had dreadful thought that nz2 leap frogs WA bears. Talks have broke down?!

 

[Matiunz]

Since the warriors entered the nrl in 95 rugby league has grown

Even if some of that is more Aussie clubs signing kiwi juniors

Domestic League in NZ went on the opposite trajectory since the Warriors entered.
Auckland club scene in particular plummeted, 80s/Early 90s Auckland could compete with NSWRL clubs and Kiwis players would be picked directly from Auckland clubs.
There was a televised nationwide provincial competition (lion red cup) that since went defunct, a second less provincial more regional competition has come and gone (Bartercard comp).
Numbers can be shaky but it’s been said pre covid participation rates were about 25% of what they were in the peak of the late 80s/early 90s and is only recently starting to get close to getting back to that. A decade ago the sport was on its knees.

 

[SirPies&Beers]

Just had dreadful thought that nz2 leap frogs WA bears. Talks have broke down?!

what gives you that idea? redbear said last week the legal stuff takes time and used png being agreed to in principle and only just getting announced now 4 months later as comparison. maybe he is wrong though but if west aussies only came to sydney three weeks ago or even if an in principle agreement was done a month ago there’s still a bit of stuff to do right? who knows

wondwr if the expansionita experts have any new news from their sources??

 

[Wb1234]

It will be highly unlikely to get govt funding for NZ2, it’d be political suicide in the current economic climate.
Can only think of 2 occasions in my lifetime where the government has kicked in significant funding 1 being for Eden park upgrade for RWC2011 and the second being for the America’s cup precinct. Both those occasions were for infrastructure rather than funding. NZ doesn’t fund sports anywhere near the level Aus does.

Pretty sure they have paid for rugby league events in the past and will also pay for state of origin if it does go there in 2027 as was talked about

Investing 5 mill pa into rugby league juniors isn’t a stretch

And the orcas bid has said it is lining up govt money to help build a coe (though they could be lieing)

Domestic League in NZ went on the opposite trajectory since the Warriors entered.
Auckland club scene in particular plummeted, 80s/Early 90s Auckland could compete with NSWRL clubs and Kiwis players would be picked directly from Auckland clubs.
There was a televised nationwide provincial competition (lion red cup) that since went defunct, a second less provincial more regional competition has come and gone (Bartercard comp).
Numbers can be shaky but it’s been said pre covid participation rates were about 25% of what they were in the peak of the late 80s/early 90s and is only recently starting to get close to getting back to that. A decade ago the sport was on its knees.

Similar happened to the local Brisbane comp in terms of fans when the broncos came in

And I seriously doubt those Auckland clubs could’ve actually competed with the arl clubs or nswrl before it

Aussie clubs weren’t even looking at nz for players like they do today

Look at the depth of the kiwis today they don’t need to pick halves out of reserve grade (Olsen filipanna)

 

[Matiunz]

Pretty sure they have paid for rugby league events in the past and will also pay for state of origin if it does go there in 2027 as was talked about

Investing 5 mill pa into rugby league juniors isn’t a stretch

And the orcas bid has said it is lining up govt money to help build a coe (though they could be lieing)



Similar happened to the local Brisbane comp in terms of fans when the broncos came in

And I seriously doubt those Auckland clubs could’ve actually competed with the arl clubs or nswrl before it

Aussie clubs weren’t even looking at nz for players like they do today

Look at the depth of the kiwis today they don’t need to pick halves out of reserve grade (Olsen filipanna)

Oh I have no doubt the Auckland clubs would have always fallen away and struggled to keep up with the advancement of professionalism and sports science.
The point still stands that the game in NZ is in a worse state now than pre Warriors days , 95 Warriors hype was a squandered opportunity of massive growth -although it seems to be going in the right direction finally

 

[Matt_CBY]

Just had dreadful thought that nz2 leap frogs WA bears. Talks have broke down?!

Nope