next franchise round - 2011/12

[Evil Homer]

Unfortunately TO are not applying for a license this time. It's between Halifax, Barrow and Widnes.

 

[WireMan]

I heard that TO have not applied with the championship clubs because they have not met the criteria (getting to a final i think?).

However they can apply with the super league clubs because they got special dispensation.


Out of the three championship clubs you would have to rate it 1) Widnes, 2) Barrow 3) Halifax.

I put Halifax bottom as we have enough Yorkshire teams already.

 

[Evil Homer]

Yeah, I think it's cloudy whether TO can actually apply or not, but as far as I know they aren't going to anyway this time, which is fair enough as they are not ready yet, they haven't really made too much progress recently. I'd agree with that ranking of the clubs. Barrow don't really have the infrastructure that Widnes do.

 

[Wilson1]

Yeah, I think it's cloudy whether TO can actually apply or not, but as far as I know they aren't going to anyway this time, which is fair enough as they are not ready yet, they haven't really made too much progress recently. I'd agree with that ranking of the clubs. Barrow don't really have the infrastructure that Widnes do.

Toulouse should not be allowed to apply as there is no point in setting out criteria if you are just going to change them. I think that they will be in the Super League in time but there is definitely no need to rush them.

 

[bender]

Toulouse should not be allowed to apply as there is no point in setting out criteria if you are just going to change them. I think that they will be in the Super League in time but there is definitely no need to rush them.

Toulouse (or any other team) were always qualified under the criteria (assuming they pass it). It is just that they do not qualify for the "automatic" NL1 spot. There is no changing, it is just that some people have totally misunderstood what was always proposed. It gets a bit frustrating really.

 

[Lambretta]

Earlier in the thread there was a mention of relocating the Harlequins franchise outside of London to somewhere such as Milton Keynes.

As a product of that wonderful City (ignoring the fact I was born in Northampton hospital) I'd like to look at the place where I was bred as a venue for a Rugby League franchise.

Pros.
Milton Keynes is a growing City. It's got a large population already and its's only going to get bigger. The Southern end of MK (around the village of Newton Longville where I lived from the age of 4 to 21) is earmarked for development to the tune of another 50,000 people - some 20,000 dwellings.

Youth. Milton Keynes is a young City and that means youth development opportunities.

Proximity and access. MK is the best laid out City in Christendom (well the South of England anyway) and access around the City is brillant. But more than that it's central location and easy access to places such as London, Luton, Beford, Northampton, Oxford, Cambridge, Birmingham and even Manchester (just 90 minutes by train) make Milton Keynes the envy of traffic jam dwellers the World over.

Space. If you want to build a stadium and training facilities, Milton Keynes has more space than London has white people that speak with a fake Jamaican patois.

Northerners. MK has no traditional locals. 40 years ago it didn't exist, so most of it's locals come from elsewhere and a few of them were originally from up North, so they'd have seen a game a league.


Cons.
Well, everything really.
MK has no history of Rugby .... actually it has no history at all, but MK is not a Rugby town. Sure many of the outlying rural places have their Union fans, but not Rugby League. Yes it's close to Northampton and Bedford but not close enough for people to walk to the ground which seems to be a key factor in getting people to events in England.

MK is a football town. The only sport that seems to be popular in MK is football and most of the population are ex-Londoners so the most supported clubs are Chelsea (even before they were rich), Arsenal & Spurs. Sure there are some Northerners in MK - but not enough really and most of them seem to follow Liverpool and Manchester United. You'd struggle for crowds in Milton Keynes and that means you'd struggle for commercial opportunities there.

People there do not know what Rugby League is. To the people of Buckinghamshire, Rugby means Johnny Wilkinson and Northampton Union etc. Not 6 tackles and hit ups.

It's too close to Watford. OK - this is not Rugby League related but Watford is a stain on humanity and Milton Keynes should have been placed about 30 miles further North IMO.

Overall, whilst the City has many things in it's favours (and whilst I would love to have a League presence in my home town) I just cant see Milton Keynes as being a sensible venue for a Rugby League team.

 

[Evil Homer]

The team isn't moving to MK so it doesn't make any difference, but you can't use 'there's no RL there' as an argument against it. If we didn't take RL to new places then there wouldn't be RL anywhere.

 

[Lambretta]

The team isn't moving to MK so it doesn't make any difference, but you can't use 'there's no RL there' as an argument against it. If we didn't take RL to new places then there wouldn't be RL anywhere.

I understand that, but Rugby, either Union or League is virtually non existant there. It just doesn't register on the sporting landscape. If you could somehow incorporate drinking lager and breaking glasses into peoples faces as part of the game, you might have an audience (jokes) - but a League team in MK?

Northampton and Bedford both have histories of Rugby (Union) and have local League teams. Milton Keynes doesnt even have a local league club on any level at all. It's total non participation we're talking.

MK just isn't a viable option for a Southern Club - the East side of London or somewhere that has established juniors is far more sensible.

I'd love to see the London franchise move to East London. West Ham has always been famous for its junior development of football and boxing. I cant see any reason why League would be different. If it involves hitting things and running - those Cockneys are bloody champions at it!

 

[Evil Homer]

I don't think an existing RU culture would be any benefit at all, if anything it could be a hindrance IMO. For some reason we always seem to be more keen to target places where RU is strong, or where we think there is an ex-pat market to tap into. I think an area with no top-flight sport at all would be much more likely to embrace RL than somwhere where there is massive competition, especially from big Union clubs. I bet if a team moved to Milton Keynes and was promoted properly it could go alright. Maybe not brilliant, but certainly better than the current Harlequins club, which is in a Union hotbed. The fact that there are no amateur clubs isn't a problem, the existing clubs in Northampton and Bedford are only a couple of years old and are hardly of the size that they couldn't be replicated elsewhere. Heck, thanks to the Crusaders we've seen a whole league appear in North Wales this year, another area where there was previously no amateur RL.

I understand fully what you're saying and I'll take your word that MK isn't an ideal place, it's not going to happen anyway but it's just an example. I would love to see a semi-pro team in Bristol or somwhere, towns like that with no real top flight sporting competition are there for the taking IMO and should be prioritised more than places where RU is strong. As for Harlequins, I think anywhere in London apart from the current location would be an improvement. The East End would be great, the problem is just finding a suitable ground.

 

[bowes]

Bender, you do realise that's total rubbish and only teams that meet the criteria are eligible to apply full stop? The reason you're frustrated is you're trying to convince everyone of something that's untrue and they're all right

Evil Homer: sadly the North Wales league never happened they just had a 9s tournament

 

[Wilson1]

Toulouse (or any other team) were always qualified under the criteria (assuming they pass it). It is just that they do not qualify for the "automatic" NL1 spot. There is no changing, it is just that some people have totally misunderstood what was always proposed. It gets a bit frustrating really.

That is definitely not the way I understand it.

From the RFL:

The minimum criteria for a Championship club to be awarded a Super League licence are:
a. Club has reached a Championship Final or won the Northern Rail Cup in 2009 or 2010.
b. Club has a stadium with an operational capacity of 10,000.
c. Club has turnover of at least £1,000,000 in financial year ending 2009 or 2010 (turnover of charitable Foundation can be included in this figure).
d. Club has an average attendance of at least 2500 in 2009 or 2010.
Those applicant clubs from the Championship that meet the minimum criteria will then be assessed and the RFL will allocate a Super League licence to the most suitable club.

Those Championship clubs that meet the minimum criteria but do not obtain a Super League licence in March 2011 still have a chance of obtaining a Super League licence. These clubs will have their suitability for a licence assessed with the Super League clubs who submit applications in April 2011.

http://www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/licensing_faqs

It never says that Championship clubs who do not meet the criteria will be able to apply. Besides even if Toulouse did apply they shouldn't be in the Super League right now as they would not make any of the above 4 criteria.

 

[bender]

That is definitely not the way I understand it.

From the RFL: http://www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/licensing_faqs

It never says that Championship clubs who do not meet the criteria will be able to apply. Besides even if Toulouse did apply they shouldn't be in the Super League right now as they would not make any of the above 4 criteria.

That criteria listing is for the championship club chosen that gets an automatic birth! It has nothing to do with the general selection of the other 13 (or however many) teams.

Your interpretation is the commonly held consensus among internet posters, but it has never been the case, and it has never been confirmed by the RFL. IN fact, the RFLhave always stated the opposite. The 13 best applications will be chosen. That always has and will be the case. This was confirmed a few months ago, when Toulouse were told they were still in the running. There was a mini uproar on here, but it has always been the case.

If Toulouse are one of the 13 best applications, then they are eligible. Always have been and will be. Anything else to be honest would be silly. For example, if Toulouse (or any other championship club) were to average 10,000 people, a 10 million dollar turnover etc, do you really think that such a club would be excluded because they didnt win the league?

Saying all of this, IMO, Widnes deserve promotion. If they stay at 14, I cant see Toulouse getting in, even though i think they should ahve got in last time and should be there this time. I still wouldnt rule out 15 or 16 teams. And wouldnt even totally rule out a third French side coming from the clouds although that is not too likely, obviously.

 

[Evil Homer]

Toulouse are not applying. The RFL have already said they are sticking at 14 teams, and that only teams who had either reached the Championship final, won the NRC or been invited due to special circumstances could apply.

 

[Wilson1]

That criteria listing is for the championship club chosen that gets an automatic birth! It has nothing to do with the general selection of the other 13 (or however many) teams.

Your interpretation is the commonly held consensus among internet posters, but it has never been the case, and it has never been confirmed by the RFL. IN fact, the RFLhave always stated the opposite. The 13 best applications will be chosen. That always has and will be the case. This was confirmed a few months ago, when Toulouse were told they were still in the running. There was a mini uproar on here, but it has always been the case.

If Toulouse are one of the 13 best applications, then they are eligible. Always have been and will be. Anything else to be honest would be silly. For example, if Toulouse (or any other championship club) were to average 10,000 people, a 10 million dollar turnover etc, do you really think that such a club would be excluded because they didnt win the league?

Saying all of this, IMO, Widnes deserve promotion. If they stay at 14, I cant see Toulouse getting in, even though i think they should ahve got in last time and should be there this time. I still wouldnt rule out 15 or 16 teams. And wouldnt even totally rule out a third French side coming from the clouds although that is not too likely, obviously.

I'll take your word for it. If they are eligible then the RFL's wording is very confusing.