NFT- Young Drivers

[macavity]

Andy -

Similar to my own experiences - grew up riding moto and driving customs around the bush. Dad raced a V8 Commo and speedway, and was hell bent on teaching me to drive at a very young age.

Hell, even an addiction to Gran Turismo has helped my understanding of car physics.

I am a quick but not aggressive driver on the road. never been booked or had a crash. Have had to take evasive action to miss countless old biddys (and young hoons) with no idea....

I believe if we are serious about saving young lives (to use a motherhood statement....) we should be encouraging an interest (and education) in cars and driving and.....ensuring they get appropriate vehicles. no one has mentioned this yet.

Same licence (got in a Toyota Echo, no doubt...) can be used to drive an old landrover, EJ Holden, or 500HP WRX...... each of these vehicles require particular skills, and present different challenges. And none of them are suitable for young drivers.

New cars, with safety features (ABS should be mandatory....) and comparatively unspectacular performance would make a huge difference. They are less likely to get into trouble, and if they do, are far more likely to survive. Things like solid steering columns, non-retractable belts and solid chassis are absolutely lethal in a crash. Good brakes and tyres (retreads should be banned. period) make a BIG difference.

May I suggest a limit of 2.0 litres (non turbo) for P platers, and (at the least) a drivers air bag?

That way they get experience, training, are less likely to get into lethal danger....

thoughts?

 

[TooheysNew]

May I suggest a limit of 2.0 litres (non turbo) for P platers, and (at the least) a drivers air bag?

I have a 3.8L Commy, can't really go any smaller because I need the extra power for some of the jobs i do at work, so that doesn't really work. Again, there is no hard and fast rule that can be applied as i see it.

 

[~bedsy~]

Fine take off your P plates then when you get pulled over for a random breath test you will lose your licence.
My curfew time would be midnight to 5am. This is the danger time and it's called fatigue and inexperience. I'm not saying that there all bad drivers, they just don't have the experience of a 30 or 40 yr old driver. My bros freind wrapped his car around a tree in port on saturday morning, you probebly have read about it.
It needs to stop.

 

[TooheysNew]

they just don't have the experience of a 30 or 40 yr old driver

A lot of them probably don't have the complacency or arrogance of a 30 or 40 year old driver, at least not the sensible ones i know.

 

[macavity]

What do u do dilmah?

 

[TooheysNew]

I have a 3.8L Commy, can't really go any smaller because I need the extra power for some of the jobs i do at work, so that doesn't really work. Again, there is no hard and fast rule that can be applied as i see it.

If your refering to this macavity it was a hypothetical, I should have made it more clear. All i'm trying to do is give a different perspective to the debate.

Probably not doing a good job but.

 

[Sweeper]

Something needs to be done and I agree with the curfew. If it's going to save our youth then why not. Before you say what about work? what about emergancies? They won't get done for it.
I just feel we need to do something quick.

Where does it end? Do we ban all women from driving cause, lets face it, they're shit?

 

[astrogirl]

Something needs to be done and I agree with the curfew. If it's going to save our youth then why not. Before you say what about work? what about emergancies? They won't get done for it.
I just feel we need to do something quick.

Where does it end? Do we ban all women from driving cause, lets face it, they're sh*t?

That better be a joke.

Cos quite frankly, I'm an awesome driver.

 

[*melliez*]

My curfew time would be midnight to 5am. This is the danger time and it's called fatigue and inexperience. I'm not saying that there all bad drivers, they just don't have the experience of a 30 or 40 yr old driver.

P platers arent the only ones who shouldnt be driving at that time of the evening. I know truck and taxi drivers need to be out at those times, but jesus, even they have accidents. No driver is perfect.

Everyone is all for P platers getting the experience, how the hell are they meant to get it if you wanna keep throwing all these restrictions on them?

I mean, three years of Ps is a restriction. 0 BAC, yet another restriction, so no mouthwash and medications for P platers anymore... (which is just about all that 0.02 covered anyway)

Now you wanna throw curfews and passenger numbers on top of all that?

You seriously have to be kidding me right?

All fully licenced drivers were given the opportunity to learn in all conditions (which I believe all the new licence schemes were implemented for if I am correct), yet you wanna stop the younger generation from having those same opportunities? Doesnt seem fair at all

Ok, so just say they bring in this curfew from middnight till 5am and I am driving from a Friday or even Saturday night game in Newcastle back to Sydney, it reaches midnight, and I am not home, what do they want me to do? Break the law, and keep driving so I can get home... or pull over and sleep on the side of the road?

I know what I would be doing if I was in that situation... keep driving, cause I would never pull over and sleep on the side of any road no matter how well I knew the area!

 

[Razor]

Ok, so just say they bring in this curfew from middnight till 5am and I am driving from a Friday or even Saturday night game in Newcastle back to Sydney, it reaches midnight, and I am not home, what do they want me to do? Break the law, and keep driving so I can get home... or pull over and sleep on the side of the road?

Same what will happen now to people on the restricted provisional license due to excessive points. They have to stop driving.

 

[bluesbreaker]

Curfew?!

Are you friggin' serious?

This is Australia, not Iran.

This stems from the generalisation that ALL p platers are bad/irresponsible drivers. I've had my license now for 2 years, and I dare say i'd be as good as anyone on this forum, and would've done as many kms as many of you (commuting to and from CSU every week'll do that). And After 7pm? I work ridiculous hours (usually more than 10 hours a day, 6 days a week), what the hell would I do, walk home?

Something needs to be done to curb the road toll. A curfew is not the right answer. Perhaps a stricter driving test - one that you can't basically do with your eyes closed... Or force everyone to take defensive driving classes etc. But curfews, blah.

EDIT: I'VE GOT IT! RESTRICT ENGINE CAPACITY FOR P PLATERS... No more 6's or 8's - too much power for most inexperienced drivers - for anyone below, say, a black license. No turbo chargers, performance filters, supercharging, WHATEVER. Give us all little 4 cylinders, that'll slow a lot of people down

 

[*melliez*]

I'VE GOT IT! RESTRICT ENGINE CAPACITY FOR P PLATERS... No more 6's or 8's - too much power for most inexperienced drivers - for anyone below, say, a black license. No turbo chargers, performance filters, supercharging, WHATEVER. Give us all little 4 cylinders, that'll slow a lot of people down

They have already implemented that in Victoria, they can drive 6's but not 8's. I dunno how well it works though. While I was done there in August I did notice a fair few P platers driving in V8's.

That is probably the only restriction that I will agree with.

Same what will happen now to people on the restricted provisional license due to excessive points. They have to stop driving.

I am on my Green P's and like I said, there is no way in hell you will ever catch me pulling over and sleeping on the side of the road. I am a 22 year old female, it is just not safe for me to do it, especially in my area, and I sure as hell wouldn't do it in an area that I don't know for that reason. IMHO that is just as unsafe to do that as it is driving at that time of the night.

See, I might be only on my Green P's but I have been driving since I was 16 years old. I stayed on my L's until I was 21, just kept driving, getting experience. I have driven in almost all conditions, so I feel confident enough that I could get myself out of trouble (which I have done before today) if I had to do so.

My Dad has made sure that I am aware of all situations that could arise and how to deal with them. He is a driver for a living, so he has a fair idea about this subject, so I listen to him, as I know he is only doing it for my own good. He has been teaching me these things since I was old enough to understand what he was talking about (probably about 13 or 14 years old), which I believe has been a great help to my driving ability (or what some may say lack of, due to the fact I am only on my P's)

I am definately not saying that I am the perfect driver, I don't believe that anyone can call themselves that.

I think everyone should be made to take a defensive driving course. I am actually considering looking into do one, because I believe it will help improve my driving skills greatly.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for cutting down the road toll, but it has to be done in a way that doesn't penalise anyone, which most of the suggestions that have been made have done.

 

[macavity]

bb - see my post above.....

 

[bluesbreaker]

bb - see my post above.....

Yeah man, just noticed that I missed it in my haste.

Spontaneous seperate evolution .

 

[~bedsy~]

My curfew time would be midnight to 5am. This is the danger time and it's called fatigue and inexperience. I'm not saying that there all bad drivers, they just don't have the experience of a 30 or 40 yr old driver.

P platers arent the only ones who shouldnt be driving at that time of the evening. I know truck and taxi drivers need to be out at those times, but jesus, even they have accidents. No driver is perfect.

Everyone is all for P platers getting the experience, how the hell are they meant to get it if you wanna keep throwing all these restrictions on them?

I mean, three years of Ps is a restriction. 0 BAC, yet another restriction, so no mouthwash and medications for P platers anymore... (which is just about all that 0.02 covered anyway)

Now you wanna throw curfews and passenger numbers on top of all that?

You seriously have to be kidding me right?

All fully licenced drivers were given the opportunity to learn in all conditions (which I believe all the new licence schemes were implemented for if I am correct), yet you wanna stop the younger generation from having those same opportunities? Doesnt seem fair at all

Ok, so just say they bring in this curfew from middnight till 5am and I am driving from a Friday or even Saturday night game in Newcastle back to Sydney, it reaches midnight, and I am not home, what do they want me to do? Break the law, and keep driving so I can get home... or pull over and sleep on the side of the road?

I know what I would be doing if I was in that situation... keep driving, cause I would never pull over and sleep on the side of any road no matter how well I knew the area!

I'm not saying there are, but do you know the statics don't lie. I'm sick of hearing everyday that P plater has been killed our serverly injured in an accident in the early hrs of the morning.
I don't agree with the 3 yrs on the P's a P plate on your car does nothing. I really dissagree about the BAC being reduced that is ridiculas and I was lucky enough not to have any of that stuff.
For all the nay saying there doesn't seem to be too many other suggestions to stop these killings.
Sweeper, you must not know to many women drivers. My mum and I drive way better than my dad, he really scares me that's why I wouldn't let him teach me.

 

[Sweeper]

EDIT: I'VE GOT IT! RESTRICT ENGINE CAPACITY FOR P PLATERS... No more 6's or 8's - too much power for most inexperienced drivers - for anyone below, say, a black license. No turbo chargers, performance filters, supercharging, WHATEVER. Give us all little 4 cylinders, that'll slow a lot of people down

What about variable valve timing and electronic lift control? Or even the possibility of infinite variable valve timing. This makes excellent bang for your buck right from the factory for a small, 4 cylinder engine. There really isn't a simple solution.

 

[macavity]

sweeps, the best N/A 2.0 litres commonly available in modern cars (and im not talking rotaries or FJ race engines.....) are maxed around the 120kW mark (think Corolla Sportivo..).

I drive a Mazda 323 SP20 with a custom exhaust and ram filter (Dad is a mechanic, so yeah..) dynoed at 106kW 181nM (factory 98 174). hardly earth shattering..... im 24 and a car nut but I couldn't afford the insurance or fuel for a big-performance car without going for something old-tech or clapped out.... common sense solution....can still have fun but not enough to get majorly nasty unless you are a complete genius......

Its not like we are saying they should all be in 1.3 litre micro-cars, however a sensible limit is appropriate - and for those that argue about needing a bigger car or a family car blah blah blah... something like a Forester or Liberty is plenty big. And there are enough 2.0 (or near enough) utes and vans (although I have reservations about P-platers in vans due to the laws of physics...) for the apprentice tradies.

Truly a common-sense solution right here folks.

 

[*melliez*]

I'm not saying there are, but do you know the statics don't lie. I'm sick of hearing everyday that P plater has been killed our serverly injured in an accident in the early hrs of the morning.

I am sick of hearing about it too, and I am fully aware of the statistics and the fact that they do not lie. I want to stop seeing all these young lives go to waste as well, but as my Dad has said to me when we have had this discussion many times, the younger generation of today likes to think that rules are there to be broken, so no matter what if they wanna do something, they will do it, which is a fair call on his behalf!

I don't agree with the 3 yrs on the P's a P plate on your car does nothing. I really dissagree about the BAC being reduced that is ridiculas and I was lucky enough not to have any of that stuff.
For all the nay saying there doesn't seem to be too many other suggestions to stop these killings.

Like I said in my last post, there isn't going to be a solution that is going to be fair on everyone.

I have just driven home from on the M5 in fairly heavy traffic, I decided I would just see what drivers around me would do. It is raining substancially, and I had at least 6 cars pull infront of me, with not much room to spare, ok, so I wasn't travelling at 110km/h but it is wet, and the chances of me losing control in the wet are a damn side higher than in the dry, yet people still found it ok to do this and ducking in and out of the traffic, people still did that, which is absolutely stupid when there is a lot of traffic moving very slowly.

The sad thing about it? Every single person that did it was fully licenced. I mean, shouldn't they be showing some kind of example to the younger drivers that it isn't ok to go around driving like a moron? I see so many people driving like utter morons, hell last night I almost had a guy in a commodore take me and my car out on Parramatta Road due to the fact he was driving like a dickhead! and he wasn't the only one driving badly last night, there were so many people who could have come unstuck at any time, and they once again were fully licenced drivers.

I am not trying to pick out the fully licenced drivers that drive bad, trust me, if I had seen a P Plater do it last night I would be telling you that as well.. but it just happened that all the things that I did see last night and this morning involved fully licenced drivers.

 

[astrogirl]

Its not like we are saying they should all be in 1.3 litre micro-cars, however a sensible limit is appropriate - and for those that argue about needing a bigger car or a family car blah blah blah... something like a Forester or Liberty is plenty big.

Trust me, you can drive pretty quickly in a small car. Mine is a 1.3L and it can do decent speeds but the catch is that the car does not handle well. Add to that the fact that it is small - my mum constantly worries about other cars and trucks crashing into me, because I have no chance against just about anything on the road.

I would actually argue that when I am driving I am constantly alert to what other drivers are doing - simply because I am in a small car and I know it's not much of a protective shell.

So I don't actually agree that limiting engine size is the way to go, since there are ramifications other than the amount of power of a vehicle.

 

[~bedsy~]

*melliez* I know what your saying, I see it all the time as well, I also know that kids will break the rules... I'm trying to to find some way that this can stop.