No1 English forward in the NRL?

[JasonE]

At 8.45 tonight on Ch 511 Eurosport Leeds v Wigan.

Check out Sam Tomkins the Wigan fullback, he is absolutely unreal. I would love to see him in the NRL.

 

[DJShaksta]

Sam Burgess is one of the best forwards in the world, let alone the Poms.

When he stays injury free, which is what??? 5 games a year???

Just read he's out for another 4-6 weeks!!!

 

[LeedsStorm]

I think Sam Burgess is the best English forward in the first 2 rounds this season he was utterly dominant. I think they should move him to the front row i think he becomes more involved. Ellis has been superb for the Tigers for years and Graham i think is a fantastic player, he is a throw back to older style forward, he is involved in at least 2 tackles every set with the ball whether running a decoy tipping the ball off or making a hit up he is a real thinking mans forward and a bit of a throwback to the old style of British forward.

It will be interesting to see if more come here considering the success of Morley,Ellis,Carney,Burgess and now Graham. I think Great Britain have had pretty good forwards for at least a decade now.

the likes of Sculthorpe,Farrell,Sinfield,Cunningham,Fielden pre 06, Peacock, Could of all been good to great players in the NRL in my opinion. But when it comes to backs maybe only Carney and Senior stood out as consistently quality players.

At least now with Tomkins,Hall,Briscoe there are some good outside backs coming through. If they could find a half from somewhere since there hasn't been a world class British half since Gary Schofield it might make test football more competitive.

Hopefully some backline players can come to the NRL and show some ability. If there is a young halfback in the Super League who has the potential to become very good they should send them to the NRL. It would improve them as players immensely and the best time to send them is now with a dearth of quality half backs around.

Can I ask which players have "improved immensely" having been in the NRL? Few have come over and gone back to lesser teams than they left. Burgess, Morley, Ellis and now Graham were all great players before stepping on an Aussie paddock. Bit of an assumption that every player will benefit from their time here. At least they can be assured of a decent pre season, something many ESL players don't benefit from.

 

[Bretto]

Let's see, Ellis has been at Wests since 2009.

2009 - 22 games out of 24
2010 - 24 games out of 27
2011 - 18 games out of 26
2012 - 4 games out of 12
Total - 68 games out of 89 = roughly 3/4 of his time on the field

Seems like some people have short memories...

Can you provide similar stats for Sam Burgess? Seems he plays 2 games, then he's out for 6.

68/89 = 76.4% BTW.

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

Can I ask which players have "improved immensely" having been in the NRL? Few have come over and gone back to lesser teams than they left. Burgess, Morley, Ellis and now Graham were all great players before stepping on an Aussie paddock. Bit of an assumption that every player will benefit from their time here. At least they can be assured of a decent pre season, something many ESL players don't benefit from.

Sam Burgess is a much better player now than he was when he left Bradford. He just needs a clean run without injury and you'll all see how much better he is.

Luke Burgess is also twice the player he was at Leeds.

 

[anjado]

Can I ask which players have "improved immensely" having been in the NRL? Few have come over and gone back to lesser teams than they left. Burgess, Morley, Ellis and now Graham were all great players before stepping on an Aussie paddock. Bit of an assumption that every player will benefit from their time here. At least they can be assured of a decent pre season, something many ESL players don't benefit from.

I am talking about Halves and outside backs if any young English half comes to Australia and sticks it out it will improve there game massively. England's current halfback is Rangi Chase who would struggle to get a game in the NRL. England could possibly win a series if England had a world class halfback or at least someone on a similar level to Widdop.

You have misread most of what i said, i think every England international forwards would probably do well out here. It's the backs which are the problem specifically the halves. There hasn't been a world class English half since Gary Schofield so no matter how good the forwards go it will always be an uphill struggle.

the halves would benefit because they would improve there kicking game which is something that has been sorely lacking in all English halves for a long time and will learn how to play with more structure. They would then have the ability to master an off the cuff style of football and a structured one which all the great halves have.

 

[dogslife]

Burgess has played 31 games out of a possible 59 since joining the Rabbletohs

 

[hutch]

Graham is the best of the three by far. It seems to me like he's being used wrongly in the Bulldogs team. I can't imagine him having much if any impact coming off the bench.

He is not the best of the 3 and certainly not by far! Ellis has been the best since he has been here, and his game has gone to another level since his Leeds days. Burgess will end up the best English player since Hanley, and graham is a tough, no nonsense forward who is one of the best front rowers in the nrl!

 

[juro]

Can you provide similar stats for Sam Burgess? Seems he plays 2 games, then he's out for 6.

68/89 = 76.4% BTW.

That's why I said roughly 3/4...

I didn't bother showing Burgess' numbers because I knew they would not be anywhere near 3/4 on the field.

 

[netic]

Ellis has been awesome for the tigers since his arrival and will be missed when he leaves, awesome running backrower... Hard Trainer and good bloke from all reports....

Sam Burgess has shown us some fantastic Glimpes of how good he truly is.... if he can get a good run of no injuries he will be the best english forward to arrive on Aussie Soil.

Graham... well he hasnt done enough to prove he is in the Ellis and BUrgess frame as yet, but maybe in a couple of seasons who knows...

But for Ellis to win player of the year each year he has been at the tigers especially with Players like Farah and MArshall in the team is great and Ellis has shown consistency over the 3 + years he has been in Oz....

But best english player would be Hanley, i remember being a 10 year old kids mimicking him when i used to run around in the back yard..... great player

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Burgess has played 31 games out of a possible 59 since joining the Rabbletohs

And is why he can't be considered one of the 'greats' of the game. Part of the game is staying fit, a vital part.

 

[WireMan]

I am talking about Halves and outside backs if any young English half comes to Australia and sticks it out it will improve there game massively. England's current halfback is Rangi Chase who would struggle to get a game in the NRL. England could possibly win a series if England had a world class halfback or at least someone on a similar level to Widdop.

You have misread most of what i said, i think every England international forwards would probably do well out here. It's the backs which are the problem specifically the halves. There hasn't been a world class English half since Gary Schofield so no matter how good the forwards go it will always be an uphill struggle.

the halves would benefit because they would improve there kicking game which is something that has been sorely lacking in all English halves for a long time and will learn how to play with more structure. They would then have the ability to master an off the cuff style of football and a structured one which all the great halves have.

Really? So O'Brien at Warrington would be better not learning from Briers and would be better going where? Cronk is alright, other than that the half backs are gash in NRL.

Tomkins needs to go to aus? He is already learning of two future NRL halves so no need there.

England already have a player at the level of Widdop. His name is erm, Widdop.

Luke Burgess is also twice the player he was at Leeds.

Rubbish.



Graham is the best English forward in the NRL. He has only been there 2 mins. Burgess has a better highlights video. Graham is just a machine.

 

[Dresden Dan]

Is Shaun Edwards coming out here with the Wales rugby team? Laughed when I saw him come on at the end of the 1989 GF on Fox & getting pushed off by Steve Jackson.

 

[anjado]

Really? So O'Brien at Warrington would be better not learning from Briers and would be better going where? Cronk is alright, other than that the half backs are gash in NRL.

Tomkins needs to go to aus? He is already learning of two future NRL halves so no need there.

England already have a player at the level of Widdop. His name is erm, Widdop.



Rubbish.



Well England in the tri nations last season picked Rangi Chase as the halfback, you know that guy who couldn't get a start in the NRL. He is also the current man of steel so you know he is technically the best halfback in England.

Halfbacks better than Rangi Chase in the NRL

All except Kris Keating and Josh McCrone.

England haven't had a great half since Gary Schofield this is a fact. It's also a fact the last time Britain had very good halves Gregory, Schofield and Edwards as a back up all of them came to play in Australia.

Super League and the NRL are completely different games. For one there is far more structure in the NRL the standard is also higher across the board that is just fact, the top teams in England are very good but other than this the standard is very low if Parramatta played Widnes they would probably put 30 on them.

In England the game is more played off the cuff. Which is good in a way but it only helps England in a test match if England are well on top. When England need to play tactically or for field position then we are screwed. Because everytime we make a clearing kick it goes straight down the throat of whoever the Australian fullback is and it's always greeted with what positioning by Minichello or Slater when in reality it is a kick straight down there throat and a very poor kick.


Tomkins learning off Finch and Leuleui ? f**king hell we are in bigger trouble than i thought. Tomkins is an exception to the rule because he is brilliantly talented player, name the last English backline player with a similar level of talent ? Was it hmm lets say 15-20 years ago funny that.


Offiah
Connolly
Edwards
Schofield
Hanley
Steadman
Powell
Lydon
Devereux
Goulding
Fox
Gregory
Hampson
Davies

Funny how the backlines of the last truly great British sides were built around players who had played in both competitions. Apart from Hunte,Robinson and Newlove the rest had all played in Australia. Im sure they all took something away from it whether good or bad but i guarantee they all improved as footballers because they learned a new style of playing the game.

It helped broaden there knowledge of the game and helped Great Britain come the closest they had ever come to beating Australia since the 70's.

I'm sure O'Brien would have a lot to learn from Lee Briers who in his own right is an excellent player. But he would learn even more coming here since he would learn a whole new way of playing the game.

As for the smart ass Widdop comment.

Let's see

Australia

6. Thurston
7. Cronk

Australia II

6. Carney
7. Cherry-Evans

New Zealand

6. Marhsall
7. Johnson

New Zealand II

6. Foran
7. Fien

England

6. Widdop
7. Chase

A bit of a standard drop off don't you think ? Widdop is a fine player partly because he has learned from 3 of the best players in the world and one of the worlds best coaches. I somehow don't think Tomkins would get a similar education from Finch and Leuleui. Chase would be at least 4th choice New Zealand halfback even then they might consider putting Hohaia into the halves before him.

Your point about halves in the NRL being not so good is a valid one.Which is why England should send two youngish ones here and if they can help break into first grade and stick around in the NRL for 2-3 years they will have learned a lot just like all the previous players i mentioned.

 

[Mr Angry]

Ellis and Burgess are in the lead with Graham a fair bit behind. Nothing against Graham, but Ellis and Burgess are just that good.

I have noticed over the years, you and I watch league through similar eyes.

Burgess and Ellis are a cut above the likes of Graham or even Sams younger brothers.

 

[Armageddon.]

I have noticed over the years, you and I watch league through similar eyes.

Burgess and Ellis are a cut above the likes of Graham or even Sams younger brothers.

Im with you two, as far as Pommie forwards in the NRL go Graham is a long way behind Ellis and Burgess

 

[innerwestrabbit]

Ellis has been the best of those three thus far. He is very consistent. Burgess has shown at times he can be brilliant. Injury is really holding him back. Graham looks like a guy who gives his all and will be a very good consistent player for the dogs. If burgess gets the rub of the green he will be the best. Combine endurance, explosiveness and huge desire to win. Probably the main reason he gets injured a lot

 

[Sunshine Coast Tiger]

Ellios has been the Wests Tigers best buy ever. He has been great for our club and I think is slightly ahead of Burgess (great player just too many injuries) and both of them are a long way in front of Graham.

 

[Cliffhanger]

None of them even come close to how good Morley was.

Morley was the greatest thing the Poms ever gave to the NRL, except for of course, establishing the sport of Rugby League in the first place.

 

[hutch]

None of them come close to Ellery Hanley though. Best English player I've ever seen!