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No1 English forward in the NRL?

Vic Mackey

Referee
Messages
25,355
None of them even come close to how good Morley was.

Morley was the greatest thing the Poms ever gave to the NRL, except for of course, establishing the sport of Rugby League in the first place.

Disagree

Morley took a good year to have an impact. Ellis and burgess hit the ground running.

Morley was undoubtedly great but I think he is behind Ellis and burgess
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,489
Not many come close to Hanley to be fair, he was one of the best players the game has seen in modern times.

There are probably 5-10 English players that would do very well in the NRL. The young kid at Wigan, Charnley, looks another outstanding prospect. Could easily make two playoff NRL squads out of SL players if the salary cap allowed.
 
Messages
2,364
Really? So O'Brien at Warrington would be better not learning from Briers and would be better going where? Cronk is alright, other than that the half backs are gash in NRL.

Tomkins needs to go to aus? He is already learning of two future NRL halves so no need there.

England already have a player at the level of Widdop. His name is erm, Widdop.



Rubbish.



Graham is the best English forward in the NRL. He has only been there 2 mins. Burgess has a better highlights video. Graham is just a machine.

I'm not saying who or who isn't the best, I'm saying Luke Burgess has improved massively.

Personally I haven't seen enough NRL this year to make judgement on who the best is. Last year I thought it was Ellis.

Sam Burgess has been on fire from what I've seen of him so far, and Graham has also been fantastic.

I don't think there is much between a fit Ellis, Sam or Graham.
 

WireMan

Bench
Messages
4,479
Well England in the tri nations last season picked Rangi Chase as the halfback, you know that guy who couldn't get a start in the NRL. He is also the current man of steel so you know he is technically the best halfback in England.

Halfbacks better than Rangi Chase in the NRL

All except Kris Keating and Josh McCrone.

England haven't had a great half since Gary Schofield this is a fact. It's also a fact the last time Britain had very good halves Gregory, Schofield and Edwards as a back up all of them came to play in Australia.

Super League and the NRL are completely different games. For one there is far more structure in the NRL the standard is also higher across the board that is just fact, the top teams in England are very good but other than this the standard is very low if Parramatta played Widnes they would probably put 30 on them.

In England the game is more played off the cuff. Which is good in a way but it only helps England in a test match if England are well on top. When England need to play tactically or for field position then we are screwed. Because everytime we make a clearing kick it goes straight down the throat of whoever the Australian fullback is and it's always greeted with what positioning by Minichello or Slater when in reality it is a kick straight down there throat and a very poor kick.


Tomkins learning off Finch and Leuleui ? f**king hell we are in bigger trouble than i thought. Tomkins is an exception to the rule because he is brilliantly talented player, name the last English backline player with a similar level of talent ? Was it hmm lets say 15-20 years ago funny that.


Offiah
Connolly
Edwards
Schofield
Hanley
Steadman
Powell
Lydon
Devereux
Goulding
Fox
Gregory
Hampson
Davies

Funny how the backlines of the last truly great British sides were built around players who had played in both competitions. Apart from Hunte,Robinson and Newlove the rest had all played in Australia. Im sure they all took something away from it whether good or bad but i guarantee they all improved as footballers because they learned a new style of playing the game.

It helped broaden there knowledge of the game and helped Great Britain come the closest they had ever come to beating Australia since the 70's.

I'm sure O'Brien would have a lot to learn from Lee Briers who in his own right is an excellent player. But he would learn even more coming here since he would learn a whole new way of playing the game.

As for the smart ass Widdop comment.

Let's see

Australia

6. Thurston
7. Cronk

Australia II

6. Carney
7. Cherry-Evans

New Zealand

6. Marhsall
7. Johnson

New Zealand II

6. Foran
7. Fien

England

6. Widdop
7. Chase

A bit of a standard drop off don't you think ? Widdop is a fine player partly because he has learned from 3 of the best players in the world and one of the worlds best coaches. I somehow don't think Tomkins would get a similar education from Finch and Leuleui. Chase would be at least 4th choice New Zealand halfback even then they might consider putting Hohaia into the halves before him.

Your point about halves in the NRL being not so good is a valid one.Which is why England should send two youngish ones here and if they can help break into first grade and stick around in the NRL for 2-3 years they will have learned a lot just like all the previous players i mentioned.

Rangi is a stand off (5/8). Danny Orr is the half back for Cas.

Thurston is a stand off, but how is Thompson going for the cowboys learning from the great one? Who is learning how to be a half back from Marshall? Moltzen? The Tigers just signed Anasta to do the halfback role, so i'm not sure what anybody would learn there.

Yes, there are some great stand offs running around the NRL, but there are so few players that can actually control a game on the fly, the coaches have to pre plan everything.
 

anjado

Juniors
Messages
1,092
Rangi is a stand off (5/8). Danny Orr is the half back for Cas.

Thurston is a stand off, but how is Thompson going for the cowboys learning from the great one? Who is learning how to be a half back from Marshall? Moltzen? The Tigers just signed Anasta to do the halfback role, so i'm not sure what anybody would learn there.

Yes, there are some great stand offs running around the NRL, but there are so few players that can actually control a game on the fly, the coaches have to pre plan everything.

Rangi Chase was still selected as halfback for Great Britain and a lock was selected as five eighth, Same as Sculthorpe and Farrell.

Moltzen isn't halfback for the Tigers and Robert Lui would of been if he wasn't a complete moron. Anasta is just as likely to replace Gareth Ellis as he is to play halfback.

the coaches pre planning everything is wrong the game is structured to an enormous degree. But even poorer halfbacks like Luke Walsh can play both styles. He actually plays better when he is running the ball and playing off the top of his head.

You need to learn what to do when you aren't on top this is what great halfbacks can do. England every time they have fallen behind in the past 15 years they haven't had any direction from a halfback.

With the exception of Sean Long who played one good test in Sydney in 2006 has there been a man of the match winning performance from an English halfback in the past 15 years ?

The problem is they cannot control a game the kicking games are flat out awful and off the cuff wont work at the international level due to slower play the balls.

Like i said if it was good enough for 80% of the British side 20 years ago to come play here it should be imperative a couple of halves come over to learn how to play within a structured format.
 

DJShaksta

First Grade
Messages
7,226
Disagree

Morley took a good year to have an impact. Ellis and burgess hit the ground running.

Morley was undoubtedly great but I think he is behind Ellis and burgess

Problem is he hit the ground, got injured and now it's a reoccurring thing every few games.
 

LeedsStorm

Juniors
Messages
715
Rangi Chase was still selected as halfback for Great Britain and a lock was selected as five eighth, Same as Sculthorpe and Farrell.

Moltzen isn't halfback for the Tigers and Robert Lui would of been if he wasn't a complete moron. Anasta is just as likely to replace Gareth Ellis as he is to play halfback.

the coaches pre planning everything is wrong the game is structured to an enormous degree. But even poorer halfbacks like Luke Walsh can play both styles. He actually plays better when he is running the ball and playing off the top of his head.

You need to learn what to do when you aren't on top this is what great halfbacks can do. England every time they have fallen behind in the past 15 years they haven't had any direction from a halfback.

With the exception of Sean Long who played one good test in Sydney in 2006 has there been a man of the match winning performance from an English halfback in the past 15 years ?

The problem is they cannot control a game the kicking games are flat out awful and off the cuff wont work at the international level due to slower play the balls.

Like i said if it was good enough for 80% of the British side 20 years ago to come play here it should be imperative a couple of halves come over to learn how to play within a structured format.

I see where you are coming from. What persists in my mind, however, is the huge difference between ESL and NRL in the number of games top players play and the length and quality of the preseason. NRL acknowledge this - hence the decision not to have an international tournament. ESL players barely have a preseason and then are asked to play regular season games, challenge cup games, pointless international origin games, playoffs and are then expected to raise their game for an international comp, sometimes on the other side of the world. Sinfield played 42 games last season. This is an extreme, but long seasons and short off seasons explain why the likes of Keith Senior amass a whopping 547 first grade and international appearances. The WCC shows that english players can at least compete (albeit with favorable conditions) when both teams are fresh. It would be interesting to see how talent between Australia and England/GB compares after the english have had a 12 week pre season and standard 27 game season only. Of course, with the prestige of the challenge cup and the need for TV money in the game, this will never happen. From this point of view, more english players in the NRL could be a good thing from a conditioning perspective alone.
 

innerwestrabbit

Juniors
Messages
347
Personally, Ellis has impressed me more than Morley. Burgess is at very worst as good as Morley with far more upside than Morley could ever hope for. In terms of Hanley and Haynes run of form in 2009. Hanley could not do what Hayne did. Hanley had limited abillity, his greatest attribute was he was strong and had a great desire to win.Oh yeah he could run as fast sideways as he could forwards. Never rated him that highly then and don't now
 

innerwestrabbit

Juniors
Messages
347
I watched a lot of Hanley play in Australia and when he played in test matches. Look he was a guy that got every bit of abillity on the table that he had. He was a very good player. I don't argue that(perhaps I came off a little harsh in my judgement. But when I compare Hayne to Hanley 1988 V 2009. Hayne was in a class of his own. Overall I rate Hanley a better player than Hayne, just on the basis of getting the best out of himself over a long period of time. That could change over the next ten years. Hayne has miles more abillity, just a case of he reaches his potential.
 

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