Non Footy Chat Thread II

[Gary Gutful]

Im not up on all the gender stuff ...

A girl at work updated her name on the messaging app we use at work (slack) to be "[her name] (them/they)" .... What does this mean? ... Am i meant to not call her a her?

Correct.

 

[Noise]

Im not up on all the gender stuff ...

A girl at work updated her name on the messaging app we use at work (slack) to be "[her name] (them/they)" .... What does this mean? ... Am i meant to not call her a her?

We have a female staff member that asks to be called ‘Mx’ instead of Miss. it’s also very difficult avoiding use of the word ‘her’.

 

[Gronk]

I'm not pivoting at all. I've been very consistent on this.

Why wont you provide examples? I'd like to know what you mean when you say that he is "blurt(ing) out bigotry, misogyny, transphobic or whatever comments".

Establishing that some people are outraged isnt enough. People get outraged by all sorts of insignificant shit.

There's no doubt that he has some views that people might disagree with, but I havent really seen him be particularly disrespectful towards groups. Quite the opposite actually, plenty of people interviewing him have had no problem being offensive when expressing their view.

Also, on his power and influence. He has talked about that and how he wrestles with it. He's also been on record as being appalled at some of the extreme alt-right people who have taken much of what he says and turned it into a culture war.

Ok I think this has run it’s course. There is literally eleventy million in the western world who support his views and just as many that don’t. Yet you don’t see it. You can’t google it ? There are literally a zillion articles written by people who are just as qualified as JP who call out his hate for identity poltics and cancel culture only to point out the flaws or hypocrisy in his arguments.

My full paragraph was this

So my beef with him really is that clinical physiologist who respected his profession would never look social minorities in the eye and blurt out bigotry, misogyny, transphobic or whatever comments that could potentially be physiologically damaging to the recipients.

The angle that you seemingly want to avoid is his duty of care as a mental health professional. Do you think he has any duty of care whatsoever ? Or should we group him with Dr Phil and accept that he no longer has any professional responsibilities?

Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz and Dr. Drew: do no harm (unless it is good for ratings) - Center for the Digital Future

Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz and Dr. Drew: do no harm […]

www.digitalcenter.org

 

[Gary Gutful]

We have a female staff member that asks to be called ‘Mx’ instead of Miss. it’s also very difficult avoiding use of the word ‘her’.

How do you pronounce that?

 

[Gary Gutful]

Ok I think this has run it’s course. There is literally eleventy million in the western world who support his views and just as many that don’t. Yet you don’t see it. You can’t google it ? There are literally a zillion articles written by people who are just as qualified as JP who call out his hate for identity poltics and cancel culture only to point out the flaws or hypocrisy in his arguments.

My full paragraph was this

So my beef with him really is that clinical physiologist who respected his profession would never look social minorities in the eye and blurt out bigotry, misogyny, transphobic or whatever comments that could potentially be physiologically damaging to the recipients.

The angle that you seemingly want to avoid is his duty of care as a mental health professional. Do you think he has any duty of care whatsoever ? Or should we group him with Dr Phil and accept that he no longer has any professional responsibilities?

Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz and Dr. Drew: do no harm (unless it is good for ratings) - Center for the Digital Future

Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz and Dr. Drew: do no harm […]

www.digitalcenter.org

This isn't about eleventy million people. Its about you and your refusual to own your original comment. What has he blurted out in your opinion that amounts to bigotry, misogyny or transphobia?

Of course he has a duty of care and of course there a lots of people who think he is dangerous. Anyone in the public eye with an opinion risks offending people. Many do.

There also lots of people who think he is hypocritical on some issues. I happen to be one of them.

 

[Bandwagon]

The issue that JP was fighting was a law in Canada that compelled it and likened not using someone's preferred pronouns to hate speech. It establishes a dangerous precedent and is completely uneccessary imo. If they can force you to say this, what next?

People then kept saying "JP hates Trans people", but he's said that he'll happily call people whatever they want. The issue he was fighting had nothing to do with trans people. It was about free speech and government overreach.

That's not entirely correct, the bill was an amendment to their human rights act which gave gender identity the same protections as other groupings, Peterson made the leap that the bill would mean forced speech, yet that was repeatedly challenged/debunked by actual experts in law.

An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Gary Gutful]

That's not entirely correct, the bill was an amendment to their human rights act which gave gender identity the same protections as other groupings, Peterson made the leap that the bill would mean forced speech, yet that was repeatedly challenged/debunked by actual experts in law.

An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Those experts still conceded that there could be ramifications. From your own Wiki link:

Jordan Peterson, a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, criticized the bill, saying that it would compel speech. Peterson argued that the law would classify the failure to use preferred pronouns of transgender people as hate speech. According to legal experts, including law professors Brenda Cossman of the University of Toronto and Kyle Kirkup of the University of Ottawa, not using preferred pronouns would not meet legal standards for the Criminal Code offence of promoting hatred.[16][17][18]

According to Cossman, accidental misuse of a pronoun would be unlikely to constitute discrimination under the Canadian Human Rights Act, but "repeatedly, consistently refus[ing] to use a person’s chosen pronoun" might.[19] Commercial litigator Jared Brown said that imprisonment would be possible if a complaint were made to the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, the Tribunal found discrimination had occurred, the Tribunal ordered a remedy, the person refused to comply with the order, a contempt proceeding were brought in court, and the court ordered the person imprisoned until the contempt had been purged (though he thought such a scenario was unlikely).[19]

Even if we go with the legal experts on this (which we should) its still pretty ridiculous imo.

 

[Gary Gutful]

...and then you get this sort of shit in response.

In November 2017, Lindsay Shepherd, a teaching assistant at Wilfrid Laurier University who showed a video of Peterson's critique of Bill C-16 in her "Canadian Communication in Context" class, was reprimanded by faculty members, who said that she may have violated Bill C-16 by showing the video and holding a debate.[20][21] Commenting on the incident, Cossman noted that the Canadian Human Rights Act (which C-16 amended) does not apply to universities, and that it would be unlikely for a court to find that the teaching assistant's actions were discriminatory under the comparable portions of the Ontario Human Rights Code.[22]

 

[Gary Gutful]

In 2018, a year after the bill came into force, a spokesperson for the federal Department of Justice, stated that he was not aware of anyone being jailed for using misgendered pronouns.[23] Cheryl Milne, director of the Asper Centre for Constitutional Rights at the University of Toronto, stated that malicious use of misgendering pronouns could be part of the evidence to demonstrate an overall pattern of discrimination, but sending someone to jail is not a possible outcome for human rights complaints. "If it's just the pronoun, not much is going to happen", Milne stated.[23] AFP Fact Check stated that same year that a review of the Canadian legal databases did not show any case of an individual being sent to jail for misusing gender pronouns.[23]

Well thank f**k for that....

 

[Avenger]

Thats three beers! Can I have the third one?

That’s the most I can ever have in one sitting and that’s before a meal. Once I eat the last thing on my mind is to have another beer.

Lately I’ve been enjoying dirty gin martinis with olives. And again the most I can have is 3. Once I get to the 4th drink it starts drinking me.

 

[Bandwagon]

Those experts still conceded that there could be ramifications. From your own Wiki link:

Jordan Peterson, a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, criticized the bill, saying that it would compel speech. Peterson argued that the law would classify the failure to use preferred pronouns of transgender people as hate speech. According to legal experts, including law professors Brenda Cossman of the University of Toronto and Kyle Kirkup of the University of Ottawa, not using preferred pronouns would not meet legal standards for the Criminal Code offence of promoting hatred.[16][17][18]

According to Cossman, accidental misuse of a pronoun would be unlikely to constitute discrimination under the Canadian Human Rights Act, but "repeatedly, consistently refus[ing] to use a person’s chosen pronoun" might.[19] Commercial litigator Jared Brown said that imprisonment would be possible if a complaint were made to the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, the Tribunal found discrimination had occurred, the Tribunal ordered a remedy, the person refused to comply with the order, a contempt proceeding were brought in court, and the court ordered the person imprisoned until the contempt had been purged (though he thought such a scenario was unlikely).[19]

Even if we go with the legal experts on this (which we should) its still pretty ridiculous imo.

The ramifications there are a series of events that lead to contempt, in the end the bill was passed and exists today, and these predictions of doom have failed to materialise.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

Ok I think this has run it’s course. There is literally eleventy million in the western world who support his views and just as many that don’t. Yet you don’t see it. You can’t google it ? There are literally a zillion articles written by people who are just as qualified as JP who call out his hate for identity poltics and cancel culture only to point out the flaws or hypocrisy in his arguments.

My full paragraph was this

So my beef with him really is that clinical physiologist who respected his profession would never look social minorities in the eye and blurt out bigotry, misogyny, transphobic or whatever comments that could potentially be physiologically damaging to the recipients.

The angle that you seemingly want to avoid is his duty of care as a mental health professional. Do you think he has any duty of care whatsoever ? Or should we group him with Dr Phil and accept that he no longer has any professional responsibilities?

Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz and Dr. Drew: do no harm (unless it is good for ratings) - Center for the Digital Future

Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz and Dr. Drew: do no harm […]

www.digitalcenter.org

So easy to claim that he blurts out bigotry, misogyny, transphobic or whatever comments, yet so hard to point out one of them it seems.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

That’s the most I can ever have in one sitting and that’s before a meal. Once I eat the last thing on my mind is to have another beer.

Lately I’ve been enjoying dirty gin martinis with olives. And again the most I can have is 3. Once I get to the 4th drink it starts drinking me.

I've just cracked one after eating half a kilo of meat and some eggs. I can barely fit it in.

 

[Chipmunk]

That’s the most I can ever have in one sitting and that’s before a meal. Once I eat the last thing on my mind is to have another beer.

Lately I’ve been enjoying dirty gin martinis with olives. And again the most I can have is 3. Once I get to the 4th drink it starts drinking me.

Why is it dirty?

 

[Gary Gutful]

The ramifications there are a series of events that lead to contempt, in the end the bill was passed and exists today, and these predictions of doom have failed to materialise.

So far so good on the doom front.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Why is it dirty?

He lays a cable in it.

 

[Noise]

How do you pronounce that?

Imagine a kiwi saying mix

 

[Gary Gutful]

Imagine a kiwi saying mix

Ah, so you pronounce it "Mux, bro"?

 

[Avenger]

Why is it dirty?

Because it has olive juice in it.

 

[Avenger]

PS . I know f**k all about alcohol, beer etc. I just drink what tastes good. My mate however is a true connoisseur and knows plenty.

He’s also an Alcoholic.