What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Non Footy Chat Thread II

T.S Quint

Coach
Messages
14,871
If you said that to me in person I would rip out your tongue and make you eat it you keyboard warrior piece of shit.

You crossed the line and you know it. You are just not man enough to admit it.

Pretty sure Jesus is all about forgiveness.
"Turn the other cheek" and all that stuff.
You could learn a thing or two from him, I reckon.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
78,008
Spoke to my nephew last night, he's gay and a terrific bloke who lives life , no complications

He said that the worst thing in his mind, was not letting the plebiscite go through when first put up. He feels that it would have gone through and his life would not have changed and at the same time, it would not have come under any more pressure. I know this won't please the rainbow SJWs on here, but the nutters on the yes side have just amplified the issue, not saved it

Anyway, carry on telling everyone what to do, still don't understand what the problem was with the plebiscite, guess it didn't give the left something to campaign about.

It's a bit like the Islamic religion, not wanting to debate the issue without name calling as there is about 1% or so of the population it impacts, and they all lean towards Clover Moore and PennyWong etc, sad reflection on the current state of the country

My nephew , strangely enough, doesn't need or want to get married to his partner, they live in a similar de facto situation as a lot of hetero couples, wouldn't be surprised if that was the case for a lot of gay couples.

Good on Avenger and HJ for calling this debate for what it is, a platform for hand wringing SJWs

I am happy for your nephew that he is content to remain in his SS relationship without the need to get married and that he is sufficiently resilient not to be affected by the NO campaign. With respect to him, it seems that he is in the minority.

I have taken the liberty of making a word cloud from your ^^^ post. Seems to me that you are really just taking a political stance. Is that really appropriate here ? The Qn to be posed is just about if two people who lover each other can get married.

Clipboard01.jpg
 
Messages
11,677
Calling someone a parrot and then a 'leftoid' in the next sentence is the very definition of irony.

Really? Because, like social balkanisation, leftoid is a term that I coined myself. So where's the parroting?

Sorry mate, you lost me there, it's been voted on several times.

SSM or the Plebiscite? They're different things.

And what about the candidates that were not successful at the last election? Did they get a chance to establish a voting record?

I'm sorry, Bandy, but you're wrong. Or, perhaps, as you said in your first sentence above, you simply lost me.

So, here it is, again: Candidates at the last election were not all on the record. As such, these positions could not be taken into account when voting to elect representatives. And considering the whole point is to elect people to represent us, a conscience vote is not valid unless the topic has been declared prior to an election, so we can elect individuals (not parties, as we often do) to represent us on those conscience issues.

This has not occurred, so there is no valid basis for a conscience vote. This has nothing to do with SSM, it's about fair process that establishes representative democracy. The system needs integrity before anything else.

So, either a plebiscite now (and not a stupid postal plebiscite) or declaration for the next election that establishes the grounds for a conscience vote.

Unfortunately, Labor are taking their conscience vote away from their members so, through process of elimination, it looks like a plebiscite is the way to go.

Sorry if there was any confusion about what I meant.

WHY SHOULD HUMAN BEINGS BE DENIED THE SAME BASIC RIGHTS AS YOU AND I ANY LONGER THAN THEY ALREADY HAVE BEEN??

What's with this f**king rights bullshit?

This isn't aimed specifically at you, Bazal, as others have used this word in this thread.

Marriage isn't a basic right. For f**k's sake, this is another example of moral hijacking that is becoming pervasive in our society. It's disgusting.

This is not a right.

Now, as with my conscience vote position, this has nothing to do with the specifics of the topic at hand (SSM). It is purely to do with the underlying way in which we are conducting ourselves. Claiming marriage as a right is just another form of victim generation and this kind of shit drags us into the gutter.

Once again, Bazal, not directed at you, mate. But, f**k, can we stop doing shit like this?
 

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
56,162
So, on other matters.................

Does anyone think Trump will pull the trigger and honour his threats if antagonised or if NK do indeed launch a strike at Guam?
Anyone worried about this situation?
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
78,008
@Suitman Kim Beazely was worried the other night on 7.30. He said that the two protagonists were egotistical and ignored advice. He said that there will be a lot of posturing and hot air, but it was likey that it will start by a mistake. A misdirected missile by NK or a US plane entering a no fly zone.

He said that Trump is painting himself into a corner and thinks that he can scare NK into backing down. Yet we are dealing with a dictator that kills his relatives with machine guns. He is not rational and this could be a grave error in judgment for Trump.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,673
What's with this f**king rights bullshit?

This isn't aimed specifically at you, Bazal, as others have used this word in this thread.

Marriage isn't a basic right. For f**k's sake, this is another example of moral hijacking that is becoming pervasive in our society. It's disgusting.

This is not a right.

Now, as with my conscience vote position, this has nothing to do with the specifics of the topic at hand (SSM). It is purely to do with the underlying way in which we are conducting ourselves. Claiming marriage as a right is just another form of victim generation and this kind of shit drags us into the gutter.

Once again, Bazal, not directed at you, mate. But, f**k, can we stop doing shit like this?

In Australia, which people that are of legal age do not have the right to get married in the eyes of the law apart from same sex couples?

Of course it's a basic right. Literally everyone else has the legal right to do it. f**king murderers have the right to do it. But gay folk don't?

It's not "moral hijacking" to suggest that people deserve the same basic rights and it's not "victim generation" to suggest that the right to get married is a basic one that everyone else should have. This is not left VS right political bullshit. I wouldn't be involved if it was. Stop pulling buzz words out of your arse, you sound like Paul Murray.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,673
@Suitman Kim Beazely was worried the other night on 7.30. He said that the two protagonists were egotistical and ignored advice. He said that there will be a lot of posturing and hot air, but it was likey that it will start by a mistake. A misdirected missile by NK or a US plane entering a no fly zone.

He said that Trump is painting himself into a corner and thinks that he can scare NK into backing down. Yet we are dealing with a dictator that kills his relatives with machine guns. He is not rational and this could be a grave error in judgment for Trump.

Nk can't back down, nor will they. They also know that attack means annihilation. The ball is entirely in Trumps court... And Tbh I'm not sure if that's better or worse
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
92,323
So, on other matters.................

Does anyone think Trump will pull the trigger and honour his threats if antagonised or if NK do indeed launch a strike at Guam?
Anyone worried about this situation?
If North Korea launches a nuclear weapon at anyone they will be wiped out. The only reason nobody has crumped them already is that they assume North Korea is all talk.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,673
Well where's their equal rights? And why aren't you campaigning for that? Why is your disgust-o-meter the one that happens to be set at the correct level?

The fact that you even posted this is an indication of just how ridiculous you will get to make an argument. It's pretty sad, but whatever turns you on I guess. I'm not going to sit and explain the very obvious reasons that brothers should not marry sisters because despite how hard you try to portray yourself as one, you aren't a complete genius.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
92,323
The fact that you even posted this is an indication of just how ridiculous you will get to make an argument. It's pretty sad, but whatever turns you on I guess. I'm not going to sit and explain the very obvious reasons that brothers should not marry sisters because despite how hard you try to portray yourself as one, you aren't a complete genius.
No it's because you have no logical arguments against it. They have all the sexual and social rights of gays in this matter. They just can't get married.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,673
No it's because you have no logical arguments against it. They have all the sexual and social rights of gays in this matter. They just can't get married.

Except incest is a criminal act in Australia because of the implications for any potential offspring, you ridiculous headcase. If you're going to argue for the sake of it, at least get the facts straight.

Anyway you can argue with yourself on this because it's absolutely ludicrous, even by your standards.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
78,008
We won't be giving equal time to spurious arguments against marriage equality

Lenore Taylor


Marriage equality opponents are trying everything to complicate this decision, but at its heart the question is simple: “Should all adults have the right to marry the person they love?”

The Coalition has contorted the decision-making process because it cannot manage its internal divisions, with political consequences as yet unknown, but we should not allow the question itself to be diverted or twisted out of shape.

As we start this unnecessary, voluntary, snail mail survey-thingie, the “no” case is loudly demanding the media run “both sides” of the question.

That makes it critical to precisely define the “question” itself. Because running both sides of the actual question is not the same as running “both sides” of all the other spurious “questions” the anti-equality case is setting up as obfuscations.

So here, at the get-go, is a list of the arguments this is not about, and to which Guardian Australia will definitely not be giving “equal time” or attention.

This is not about “political correctness”, that wonderfully nebulous term subverted by the right to become a catch-all cri de coeur against elites refusing to listen to the common sense views of ordinary people. Former prime minister Tony Abbott and the Australian Christian Lobby where both employing this handy it’s-really-about-something-else-entirely tactic from day one. “Voting no will help to stop political correctness in its tracks,” Abbott claimed, champing to lead the march into another war on something or other.

But quite obviously “political correctness” does not apply – even if we were clear about what it meant – because we already know (from actual, properly weighted, surveys) that the overwhelming majority of Australians want marriage equality and that it is the elites, in this case some churches and a determined group of politicians like Abbott, who are resisting.

It is also not about a “stolen generation” of children, or any other claim that children of same-sex couples are disadvantaged. The argument is offensive, particularly to gay parents, as articulated in the Senate this week by Penny Wong, incredulous at the suggestion the survey could become a “unifying moment” while people were saying such things.

“The Australian Christian Lobby described our children as ‘the stolen generation’. We love our children, and I object – as does every person who cares about children and as do all those same-sex couples in this country who have kids – to being told that our children are a ‘stolen generation’. You talk about unifying moments? That’s not a unifying moment. It’s exposing our children to that kind of hatred,” she said, with the quiet fury of a woman who should not have to defend her parenting but finds herself having to anyway.

But as well as being offensive, the argument is also obviously illogical. Children are already being born into same-sex families, and preventing their parents from being married will do nothing to stop this. In fact allowing couples who have already decided to nurture and love children to marry would provide them with additional security and public recognition and support.

This is, in fact, quite a conservative notion, as explained by Tony Abbott’s former speechwriter Paul Ritchie in a book setting out the conservative case for same-sex marriage.

“Allowing same-sex couples to marry is not just a matter of law. It’s also a matter of heart and soul. It reflects a universal hope: to be blessed by family and friends, and to share your life, with its trials and tribulations, laughter and joy, with the one that you love.

“The institution of marriage affirms us as people; gives standing to our most significant relationship; and changes our families for the better. It is an institution that points to a better life and helps us answer the deepest question: can I selflessly love another and find meaning and purpose in that love? This is a conservative ideal,” he writes.

Nor is this about anti-bullying or “safe school” campaigns, or about any kind of creeping “rainbow ideology” or “gay agenda” allegedly infiltrating the education system. That is an entirely separate scare campaign/discussion, as applicable or otherwise to the children of same-sex or opposite-sex parents. It has no relevance to marriage equality.

And it is not about whether the Labor party is hypocritical for not changing the law during its time in government. It’s true that they didn’t, but this is a decision for this parliament, at this time. And Labor leader, Bill Shorten, who has also changed his mind on the subject, has made his party’s position completely transparent.

This discussion is, to some extent, about where to draw the line between religious freedoms and freedom from discrimination, and this will be central to the “no” campaign. But draft legislation and private members’ bills have already provided exemptions for religious institutions and, in some cases, civil celebrants.

Some argue the exemptions should extend to individuals or non religious institutions, for example to the much-spoken of, but seldom actually seen, “conscientious objectors” to same sex marriage among the ranks of wedding providers like florists, cake decorators or erectors of large marquees. The private members’ bill introduced by Liberal Dean Smith covered service providers linked in some way to religious institutions.

I can’t see any justification for further stretching the anti-discrimination provisions from religiously-affiliated institutions to everyday service providers or businesses and institutions which wish to operate as thought the marriage law had not changed. Service providers haven’t been exempted from anti-discrimination laws in the past when other laws have changed due to social pressure and changing attitudes. There may still be some publicans around who genuinely think women shouldn’t drink in public bars, as was illegal in some states until the 1960s. But it is, thank goodness, now illegal for them to refuse us service.

The anti-same-sex marriage lobby also argues marriage equality threatens religious “freedoms” in schools, which should be able to continue to teach that marriage should only occur between a man and a woman even if the law is changed – a curious position for organisations that would almost certainly be outraged if some other religion demanded the right to teach something contrary to the applicable law of Australia.

And these decisions about where to draw the line between religious freedom and discrimination are details, not determinants of the central question that this government is tying itself – and now also the country – in knots trying to answer.

This is, very simply, about tying just one sort of knot, answering that one straightforward question. If there was a reasonable argument to say “no”, we’d certainly discuss it. I just haven’t heard it yet.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ts-against-marriage-equality?CMP=share_btn_tw
 

Latest posts

Top