Non Footy Chat Thread

[Gronk]

An updated broad based consumption tax will not turn us into El Salvador merkin.

What are you reading to make you think that ?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

History books. What are you reading? Sounds like magazine articles written by left wing 'economists'.

If harvesting the social envy vote was practical everyone would be doing it. It's certainly a very popular platform.

 

[Gronk]

History books. What are you reading? Sounds like magazine articles written by left wing 'economists'.

If harvesting the social envy vote was practical everyone would be doing it. It's certainly a very popular platform.

OK where in history has a broad based consumption tax failed and wrecked the economy (your Venezuela reference) ?

Meanwhile AU treasury have been on this trail for a while.

http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/co...ions/Papers/Final_Report_Part_2/chapter_d.htm

 

[Incorrect]

To be fair, Joe did propose that increase in fuel excise which would hurt the big end of town... because you know, poor people don't have cars and if they do, they don't drive very far anyway so it was always going to hurt the big wigs in their V12 Bentley's and Rolls Royce's when they go on their Road Trips every Xmas holidays from Rose Bay and Vaucluse to the their carvan parks up at Forster-Tuncurry and so on... Let me just say on behalf of Mr and Mrs Silverspoon of Kensington - "OUCH!! Damn You Joe Hockey! You've ruined us!"

 

[Poupou Escobar]

OK where in history has a broad based consumption tax failed and wrecked the economy (your Venezuela reference) ?

A better question is where has it succeeded?

Meanwhile AU treasury have been on this trail for a while.

http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/co...ions/Papers/Final_Report_Part_2/chapter_d.htm

How will they stop the people who can consume less (high consumers) from doing so? More to the point, how will they limit the hurt to people who already spend 100% or more of their income on consumption - which are generally the poorest members of society?

 

[Avenger]

f**k the fuel excise. If it was up to me everyone who lives in the CBD and drives an SUV should be hit with a tax.

PS My wife drives one.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

As someone who benefits from the child care benefits, I can't believe how much we spend on it. Billions each year and increasing. I reckon end the whole benefit, why should the government give me money to pay someone to care for my kids. I am sure it contributes to driving up prices especially housing.

 

[Gronk]

A better question is where has it succeeded?

OK so you've got nothing ? Thought as much.

How will they stop the people who can consume less (high consumers) from doing so? More to the point, how will they limit the hurt to people who already spend 100% or more of their income on consumption - which are generally the poorest members of society?

Refer to NZ. They just reduced income tax and increased GST. Their revenue has increased and low income earners have been compensated by receiving rental assistance etc. In short the poor are not poorer in NZ, yet revenues are up.

Methinks you need to do some research rather than making shit up. The Henry Review would be a good place to start.

http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/co...ications/Papers/Final_Report_Part_1/index.htm

 

[Poupou Escobar]

And rental assistance hasn't pushed the price of rents up? Or hasn't this been going on long enough for the unintended consequences to be fully realised?

The poor are a significant demographic segment, and any special assistance or exemptions will end up having a huge distortion effect on economic behaviour. On top of that there will always be smarter people ready to prey on their poor choices.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

As someone who benefits from the child care benefits, I can't believe how much we spend on it. Billions each year and increasing. I reckon end the whole benefit, why should the government give me money to pay someone to care for my kids. I am sure it contributes to driving up prices especially housing.

Yep. Welfare absolutely drives prices up for the consumer. All that free money has to go somewhere and it ends up in the pockets of the rich.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

And rental assistance hasn't pushed the price of rents up? Or hasn't this been going on long enough for the unintended consequences to be fully realised?

The poor are a significant demographic segment, and any special assistance or exemptions will end up having a huge distortion effect on economic behaviour. On top of that there will always be smarter people ready to prey on their poor choices.

Not sure about rental assistance pushing up rents by a lot. Normally only the very low income earners will receive any assistance at all that would help and it would only help renting the lower end housing - the type of houses that anyone with decent / average income don't really want to rent anyway.

Also it could be argued that rental assistance actually saves money as it pushes people away from high cost government assistance programs into the private market etc, which creates better outcomes ( e.g. Kids actually have a roof over their head and the possibility of some normal / regular education)

 

[Poupou Escobar]

RA only has to push up rents in that class of housing that receives the entitlement, for it all to be soaked up by slumlords like Avenger.

 

[Gronk]

And rental assistance hasn't pushed the price of rents up? Or hasn't this been going on long enough for the unintended consequences to be fully realised?

The poor are a significant demographic segment, and any special assistance or exemptions will end up having a huge distortion effect on economic behaviour. On top of that there will always be smarter people ready to prey on their poor choices.

FMD you are annoying. 100% gibber. How about you step aside from your beloved devils advocate position and suggest a solution, instead of just taking post shots from your grassy knoll.

With mineral prices slipping we have a revenue issue. The only way to combat this is to do something which increases revenue streams. Clearly there are merkins who pay f**k all tax and they need to pay their way. How do you suggest that the government tackle this problem and at the same time protect the vulnerable ?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think people need to lower their expectations. I already have. The golden age is over.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

With mineral prices slipping we have a revenue issue. The only way to combat this is to do something which increases revenue streams. Clearly there are merkins who pay f**k all tax and they need to pay their way. How do you suggest that the government tackle this problem and at the same time protect the vulnerable ?

Here is a good option:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...to-surplus-that-doesnt-gouge-the-poor/6447744

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Christine Milne resigns greens leadership

 

[Gronk]

Fair enough. Another 6 years at her age is a big ask, especially with health issues.

 

[Avenger]

RA only has to push up rents in that class of housing that receives the entitlement, for it all to be soaked up by slumlords like Avenger.

Funny you say that. One of the properties just got leased to a Community housing mob. The lease starts on Thursday. Guaranteed rent for a couple of years subsidised by the Govt. Happy days.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Funny you say that. One of the properties just got leased to a Community housing mob. The lease starts on Thursday. Guaranteed rent for a couple of years subsidised by the Govt. Happy days.

Good luck. Hopefully your house doesn't get trashed, but I assume the organisation will cover you. I lived next door to a house (in a nice area too) that was leased to a community housing organisation. And the clients that went through the house over a few years weren't exactly "angels" or cared much about the house.

One of the lazy dudes actually paid me to mow his lawns as he couldn't be bothered - yet he was unemployed. Just smoked bongs all day in his shed while his kids wandered the streets until late each night. Some people you can't help.

 

[Gronk]

Good luck. Hopefully your house doesn't get trashed, but I assume the organisation will cover you. I lived next door to a house (in a nice area too) that was leased to a community housing organisation. And the clients that went through the house over a few years weren't exactly "angels" or cared much about the house.

One of the lazy dudes actually paid me to mow his lawns as he couldn't be bothered - yet he was unemployed. Just smoked bongs all day in his shed while his kids wandered the streets until late each night. Some people you can't help.

Bogans. What a wonderful subculture. :crazy: Give me refugees any day.