What I am pointing out, is that it needs to pay out that 93% of credits, not 93% of cash that was put into the machine. There is a big difference between the two. So credits includes all those small wins along the way (you know 30 credit win when you bet 50 credits).
It's why you next statement is a load of crap.
Because it's not 93% of a payout of cash. As I pointed out earlier, having seen the audit screens of pokie machines, cash payed out is more in the 2-5% range, this is why they are so profitable. One of the main reasons for that low pay out, is because most people aren't happy with doubling there money, they want more. So either they play the credits out, or go to another machine and repeat.
I did point out that I have had a gambling problem, and have gone through counselling, and read a hell of a lot about how the machines work etc. It's one of the reasons I am so for this system on the $1 and over machines (the ones that will bleed you very fast). I would have never had the problem cause me as many issues with this sort of system in place, cause most of the time I could control myself, just occasionally I would go a little stupid (chasing lost money and watch more dissapear hand over fist).
And I can tell you now, that there are very few resources available to help people in that situation, I was just lucky enough to realise I had a problem, and be prepared to pay for councelling myself. But at $180 an hour, it ain't cheap (still cheaper than gambling which is how I justified it). Don't forget, that for most problem gamblers, the gambling is just the symptom, not the problem, which is why professional counselling is a must.
Aside from your incorrect maths on payouts of cash v cash income I was more providing some evidence for the debate about how these pokie clubs are a god send to jnr sport, in reality the money that jnr sport gets in comparison to the the money the pokie clubs bring in is very little.
The NRL would gain a lot more respect of it was campaigning for the relevant state Govt's to use its ill gotten gains from pokie tax to increase funding to grass roots sports so clubs didn't have to rely on pokie clubs to fund them!
You're misunderstanding what 93% payout means. It means that every spin you should, on average, lose 7% of that stake. So if you bet $1, averaged over time you should lose 7 cents per spin. It doesn't mean that if you put $20 in the machine you should get $18.60 back out. The longer people play the more they lose.
And this legislation only applies to machines over $1 per spin. I know that when I'm pissed and playing $1 per spin I can lose plenty of money quickly, I'd hate to think how much you could lose playing higher amounts. I really don't think this will effect most punters and if you do want to play higher amounts you can just set your own limit. It's not like you don't need a card to get into clubs anyway, the clubs lobby are just whinging because they won't be able to fleece people as quickly.
I agree with all that and of course the 93% means on average but the point remains that I can bet my house on one horse race but if I want to place a $1 bet on a pokie I might soon need a license.
I agree with all that and of course the 93% means on average and if you're betting $1200 (I don't think that is even possible and the thought of it scares me) you are losing 7% of that but the point remains that I can bet my house on one horse race but if I want to place a $1 bet on a pokie I might soon need a license.
Interesting stat. Considering, any Australian under 18 years of age has no access to playing poker machines or Pubs and Clubs in Western Australia do not have poker machines, that puts a bit of a whole look on those stats. I understand that 40% of poker machine losses come from problem gamblers. NSW has the most concentration of poker machines. More interesting the a NSW Government analysis of gambling counselling data found that 20 per cent of problem gamblers in that state say they have committed offences related to their addiction. Focus on south-western Sydney and that statistic jumps to 35 per cent.Problem gamblers = 1% of the population. 20% of problem gamblers turning to crime. That's 20% of 1%. Who's to say that tiny minority wouldn't commit crimes anyway?
Typical ABC snobs spin.
Clubs are pretty high tech these days in collecting info of visitors from by simply scanning a drivers licence. I’ve been to 2 clubs in the last month as a visitor. Pumps out a temporary membership slip with my full name on it,How about a law to ban clubs scanning in licences for patrons. (anyone who allows a club to do this should be fleeced anyway - some idiots deserve what is coming)
You won't need a licence if you bet to lose $120 an hour,I agree with all that and of course the 93% means on average and if you're betting $1200 (I don't think that is even possible and the thought of it scares me) you are losing 7% of that but the point remains that I can bet my house on one horse race but if I want to place a $1 bet on a pokie I might soon need a license.
Clubs are pretty high tech these days in collecting info of visitors from by simply scanning a drivers licence. Ive been to 2 clubs in the last month as a visitor. Pumps out a temporary membership slip with my full name on it,
You won't need a licence if you bet to lose $120 an hour,
Noone should consent to a club taking a copy of their licence.
Wilkie to complain over Ch 9 pokie comments
Updated October 02, 2011 11:13:46
Independent MP Andrew Wilkie says he and Senator Nick Xenophon will lodge a formal complaint over Channel Nine's airing of comments on poker machine laws.
Channel Nine commentators Ray Warren and Phil Gould discussed Mr Wilkie's proposed mandatory pre-commitment reforms during the station's coverage of an NRL semi-final last weekend.
Mr Wilkie says it was passed off as commentary when it sounded more like political advertising.
He told Sky News a letter of complaint would be sent to the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) tomorrow.
He said while Channel Nine and the NRL were entitled to campaign against the changes, there were clear rules governing political advertising on TV.
"If someone is going to effectively make a political advertisement, then there are issues that it has to be identified as such and authorised," he said.
"People need to make quite clear what their interests are in this matter.
"When you have commentators who have clear links to rugby league clubs and hence a clear interest in the financial performance of those clubs, they should make that quite clear, otherwise they are at risk of deceiving their audience.
"In this case there is a prima facie case that Channel Nine and the commentators are in breach of the existing legislation."
Mr Wilkie also renewed his threat to pull support for the Federal Government if his plan to tackle problem gambling is not passed by May next year.
"There's no theatre here, no grand strategy playing out. I have reached an agreement with the prime minister, she is only the prime minister because she agreed to it," he said.
Under the reforms, pokie machines will be reprogrammed to cap losses at $120 an hour rather than $1,200 an hour, but lower-intensity machines will not require any form of pre-commitment.
Mr Wilkie said he was not prepared to negotiate further on the plan.
"There's no flexibility at all, there must be mandatory pre-commitment fit to all high intensity pokie machines," he said.
He said he remained confident his proposed changes would be successful, and expects it to be law by May next year.
"I actually remain very very optimistic, I think it is most likely that these reforms will be realised. I think it is very unlikely, in fact it's now reached the stage of almost inconceivable that I will have to withdraw my support [for the Government], as everyone knows is the bottom line," he said.
Grand final ads
Meanwhile, Lobby group GetUp! will air a commercial during tonight's NRL grand final in support of the Gillard Government's pokie reforms.
GetUp! national director Simon Sheikh said the advertisements were aimed at countering the big spend and misinformation campaign by Clubs Australia.
"They're trying to walk both sides of the street, saying that reform will ruin the revenue they receive from problem gamblers, while at the same time saying that reform won't reduce problem gambling," he said in a statement.
Mr Sheik said a problem gambler can lose $1,200 in one hour on high-intensity machines and 40 per cent of pokie losses come from problem gamblers.
"Without reform, pokie machines enable a social problem that can ruin individuals, families, businesses and marriages," Mr Sheikh said.
"Clubs give back just 2.7 per cent of profits in community contributions and for most, this is less than what they spend advertising their pokie palaces," he said.