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NRL Expansion. Ideas and opinions.

Who would you admit as the next team into the NRL?

  • Perth

    Votes: 75 57.7%
  • PNG

    Votes: 8 6.2%
  • Wellington/2nd NZ team

    Votes: 5 3.8%
  • Adelaide

    Votes: 6 4.6%
  • Darwin

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Fiji

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Central Coast

    Votes: 10 7.7%
  • Central Queensland/4th Queensland team

    Votes: 12 9.2%
  • Samoa

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Other (please specify)/No Expansion

    Votes: 12 9.2%

  • Total voters
    130

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,308
3.5 million in South East Queensland so there should be 4 teams. That would create some savage rivalries and kill off Rugby and AFL.
So 1 extra full Brisbane team; and
1 combo of Sunshine Coast and Redcillfe Morton Bay. (I was impressed with the Sunshine Coast turn out for Melbourne last night. They could handle 6-8 games per year.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,329
I am fully aware pro sports is a business. I am not sure you understand how businesses are run.

Businesses need to generate as much money as they spend. In Aussie pro sports a business needs to have a strong ticketed membership base and generate high television ratings. Pro RL teams in Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth are going to fail to meet this criteria. I've shown you how dreadful the TV ratings in Melbourne metro are for the Storm and, far worse down there for RL games not involving them. I've explained that the only thing bailing them out is Brisbane metro adopting them as a surrogate 4th Queensland team because the area is under serviced, and that relationship was built on the team building itself around once in a generation superstars from Queensland who dominated the game at all levels. That well is almost dry as the talent is retiring and irreplaceable. Brisbane 2 is going to be a reality in a few years and when it is, people in Brisbane looking for an alternative to the Broncos will finally have one and not have to look interstate.

The broadcasters and companies looking for commercial opportunities to promote their product do not ignore the criteria I've mentioned. I've quoted a media analyst and other leading figures in the game to prove my point.

The game doesn’t need teams in every capital to make money. It has made
its fortune on the back of Brisbane and Sydney and lost millions in Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide.

What you're suggesting is as silly as putting a KFC in a trendy hipster suburb full of vegans and saying it has to be done because McDonald's is everywhere.

Do you not see the irony in you bashing the idea of expanding Brisbane's footprint to 3 or 4 teams and now claiming the game's struggling to take over the east coast?

If you refuse to patronise your loyal customers all you're doing is inviting your competitors to claim them.

The experts agree with me and will never do what you're suggesting. That is all that needs to be said.

But the Storm have high national ratings, are in top 4-6 in attendance and top 4 for members. Im guessing they get more money in sponsorship than most other clubs as well. Not sure why you continue to ignore these facts...
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
I am fully aware pro sports is a business. I am not sure you understand how businesses are run.

Businesses need to generate as much money as they spend. In Aussie pro sports a business needs to have a strong ticketed membership base and generate high television ratings. Pro RL teams in Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth are going to fail to meet this criteria. I've shown you how dreadful the TV ratings in Melbourne metro are for the Storm and, far worse down there for RL games not involving them. I've explained that the only thing bailing them out is Brisbane metro adopting them as a surrogate 4th Queensland team because the area is under serviced, and that relationship was built on the team building itself around once in a generation superstars from Queensland who dominated the game at all levels. That well is almost dry as the talent is retiring and irreplaceable. Brisbane 2 is going to be a reality in a few years and when it is, people in Brisbane looking for an alternative to the Broncos will finally have one and not have to look interstate.
If that is the case then why are melbourne one of the very few nrl clubs that actually break even without LC grants? Consistently draw some of the best crowds in the comp and have the 3rd or 4th highest paying membership base?

They recently added to their ownership group which shows there is people out there wanting to buy in, and they have even looked into a fan ownership model for the future. They also sold off their last hotel and pokies licenses so are fully self sufficient, not something many other clubs can boast
 
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Messages
12,703
But the Storm have high national ratings, are in top 4-6 in attendance and top 4 for members. Im guessing they get more money in sponsorship than most other clubs as well. Not sure why you continue to ignore these facts...

I am not ignoring anything.

You're being disingenuous by not acknowledging why their ratings are high in Queensland and NSW. The source you cited the other day said exactly what I did about Storm being embraced in Queensland as a de facto 4th club for the state. I have explained why their popularity in Queensland will wane over the next decade. If you're still unable to understand all of this then there's no hope of getting through to you.

Make no mistake about it, the ARLC, Ch9 and Foxtel are quick enough to understand the facts Colin Smith and myself have provided. That's all that matters.

Attendances and membership numbers for Storm are terrible considering how successful they are on the field and Melbourne's reputation for attending sporting events.
 
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Messages
12,703
That's exactly what happens, if Macca's was in that suburb then you can bet KFC would have plans to eventually also be there
And they would go broke because hipster vegans don't eat meat and won't patronise an establishment that sells it.

Victorians, South Australians and Western Australians don't watch rugby league.
 
Messages
12,703
Why does Twiggy have to be involved in a Perth NRL team? that doesn't even make sense. May as well say Hugh Jackman must be one of the owners or it will never work.

The ARL Commissioner said the team would need $200 million on top of whatever support the WA Government chips in.

How many people in WA do you think have that sort of capital lying around?

Twiggy Forrest would be the only one. He's not interested.

The ARLC have obviously done their homework on Perth and discovered it will cost $200 million to run a club in this region. Travel, accommodation, advertising in an unfriendly market and grass roots development.

NRL don't have that sort of money lying around.

Tony Sage and Peter Cumins don't have that sort of money.

The Reds were done and dusted after 1995. The only reason they competed in the 1996 season is because News Ltd bailed them out and paid for their travel. In return they had to agree to sign with Super League. As soon as News Ltd got a 50% stake in the game the first club they shut down was Perth.

News Ltd and the ARLC spent at least $101,500,000 on the Storm to keep them solvent.
 
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Messages
12,703
If that is the case then why are melbourne one of the very few nrl clubs that actually break even without LC grants? Consistently draw some of the best crowds in the comp and have the 3rd or 4th highest paying membership base?

They recently added to their ownership group which shows there is people out there wanting to buy in, and they have even looked into a fan ownership model for the future. They also sold off their last hotel and pokies licenses so are fully self sufficient, not something many other clubs can boast
It wasn't like that during the first 15 years of their existence. News Ltd sunk millions of dollars into them each year to keep them afloat when they regularly haemorrhaged losses to the tune of $8 million a season. When News Ltd eventually sold their stake in the club and the game they demanded the ARLC fund the Storm to the tune of $26.5 million over 6 seasons to keep them out of bankruptcy court.

Overall this club has probably cost News Ltd at least $75,000,000 and the ARLC $26,500,000 to establish it in the position it is now. We still don't know if it will be sustainable when the club experiences a few lean seasons on the field. Making the finals and winning the competition provides a club with financial rewards. Brisbane 2 and the loss of Queensland immortals will lower the Storm’s profile in Brisbane over the next 15 years. Fewer Storm games will be broadcast on FTA when that’s happens. Commercial opportunities will dry up.

You seriously need to stop living in a fantasy world.

Melbourne Storm Financials
Periodically certain AFL leaning folks bring up the Melbourne Storms funds and debt profile over the years.

In 2010, Crikey noted that the Storm had been losing 6 million a year, with News covering the losses.

In 2012, the Australian Rugby League Commission guaranteed $26.5 million over the next six years to Melbourne Stormwith the express aim to being “to keep the game thriving in Victoria”.

In March 2012, Roy Masters remarked that the Storm were losing 8 million a year.

In August 2013, Fairfax reported that the Storm had been overspending to the tune of between $2 million and $5 million for 15 years. This shortfall had been financed by News Ltd and the amount spent by the club does not seem to be falling since the salary cap scandal in 2010.

The Storm football club spent about $20 million a year, or about $2-$4 million more than most other clubs except for the wealthy Broncos. The new consortium of owners, led by New Zealander Bart Campbell, were projecting the club will break even in five years, which is a long time to be losing money.

In June 2015, Fairfax quoted Storm owner Bart Campbell.

“Our lofty aspiration is to be solvent – that meaning cash comes in, cash comes out and at the end of the year the books balance. We are not in that position yet, but we have funds so it’s not all woe is me, but we believe over time there will be a business in this town called Melbourne Storm that is solvent and if we make profits we will re-invest them.”

In August 2015, The Australian Financial Review reported that the Storm turned over about $25 million annually, a figure that put it in the top half of the league, and had a membership base of about 15,000 but average crowds of about 14,000.

The clubs owners also bought a local hotel with hope the facility will offset continued financial losses for the Storm, which effectively breaks even each season but only after receiving an additional $26.5 million over six years as part of the terms of News Corp, once owner of the club, exiting its half-stake in the NRL in 2012.

On September 30th, 2016 Storm partowner Matthew Tripp was quoted in the Australian Financial Review

“I think we are at the break-even stage now and we can be profitable next year,”Tripp told AFR Weekend. “But we are not necessarily in this for the money. This club has been built on a great culture … we’ve got those legends playing for us and a fantastic coach in Craig Bellamy. The leadership they show is fantastic, and they really set the standards for the younger guys coming through.”

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=2717
 
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greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
It wasn't like that during the first 15 years of their existence. News Ltd sunk millions of dollars into them each year to keep them afloat when they regularly haemorrhaged losses to the tune of $8 million a season. When News Ltd eventually sold their stake in the club and the game they demanded the ARLC fund the Storm to the tune of $26.5 million over 6 seasons to keep them out of bankruptcy court.

Overall this club has probably cost News Ltd at least $75,000,000 and the ARLC $26,500,000 to establish it in the position it is now. We still don't know if it will be sustainable when the club experiences a few lean seasons on the field. Making the finals and winning the competition provides a club with financial rewards. Brisbane 2 and the loss of Queensland immortals will lower the Storm’s profile in Brisbane over the next 15 years. Fewer Storm games will be broadcast on FTA when that’s happens. Commercial opportunities will dry up.

You seriously need to stop living in a fantasy world.

Melbourne Storm Financials
Periodically certain AFL leaning folks bring up the Melbourne Storms funds and debt profile over the years.

In 2010, Crikey noted that the Storm had been losing 6 million a year, with News covering the losses.

In 2012, the Australian Rugby League Commission guaranteed $26.5 million over the next six years to Melbourne Stormwith the express aim to being “to keep the game thriving in Victoria”.

In March 2012, Roy Masters remarked that the Storm were losing 8 million a year.

In August 2013, Fairfax reported that the Storm had been overspending to the tune of between $2 million and $5 million for 15 years. This shortfall had been financed by News Ltd and the amount spent by the club does not seem to be falling since the salary cap scandal in 2010.

The Storm football club spent about $20 million a year, or about $2-$4 million more than most other clubs except for the wealthy Broncos. The new consortium of owners, led by New Zealander Bart Campbell, were projecting the club will break even in five years, which is a long time to be losing money.

In June 2015, Fairfax quoted Storm owner Bart Campbell.

“Our lofty aspiration is to be solvent – that meaning cash comes in, cash comes out and at the end of the year the books balance. We are not in that position yet, but we have funds so it’s not all woe is me, but we believe over time there will be a business in this town called Melbourne Storm that is solvent and if we make profits we will re-invest them.”

In August 2015, The Australian Financial Review reported that the Storm turned over about $25 million annually, a figure that put it in the top half of the league, and had a membership base of about 15,000 but average crowds of about 14,000.

The clubs owners also bought a local hotel with hope the facility will offset continued financial losses for the Storm, which effectively breaks even each season but only after receiving an additional $26.5 million over six years as part of the terms of News Corp, once owner of the club, exiting its half-stake in the NRL in 2012.

On September 30th, 2016 Storm partowner Matthew Tripp was quoted in the Australian Financial Review

“I think we are at the break-even stage now and we can be profitable next year,”Tripp told AFR Weekend. “But we are not necessarily in this for the money. This club has been built on a great culture … we’ve got those legends playing for us and a fantastic coach in Craig Bellamy. The leadership they show is fantastic, and they really set the standards for the younger guys coming through.”

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=2717
That article is a testament to the current owners and how they turned around the clubs financials in that short amount of time, reaching there goal of becoming one of the few solvent nrl clubs. They bought a pub and pokies as a fall back, but have now sold that off as they no longer need it

As for the money initially put in, you can't expect to gain anything without investment, and I suggest you look into some of the heartland clubs and how much the NRL and/or their LC's have had to pump into them to keep them afloat, and continue to do so because they are not solvent despite existing in the home of RL
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
Fact is if the game isnt national in the next 20 years it will be a long way second as the winter footy code. Afl is already $270mill a year ahead of us, only way to claw that back is to make more people interested in the game in the heartlands and more new people following the gme in other states and NZ. Vlandys will set us back another decade sadly to achieving this.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
3.5 million in South East Queensland so there should be 4 teams. That would create some savage rivalries and kill off Rugby and AFL.
So 1 extra full Brisbane team; and
1 combo of Sunshine Coast and Redcillfe Morton Bay. (I was impressed with the Sunshine Coast turn out for Melbourne last night. They could handle 6-8 games per year.

9 teams in 5million in Sydney hasnt killed off afl and union, stop kidding yourself.
 
Messages
12,703
That article is a testament to the current owners and how they turned around the clubs financials in that short amount of time, reaching there goal of becoming one of the few solvent nrl clubs. They bought a pub and pokies as a fall back, but have now sold that off as they no longer need it
That might be the case for now, but we are yet to see what will happen to them when they begin their slide down the ladder. I know you don't rate what I have to say, so I will show you what Cameron Smith, Melbourne Storm great, had to say about rugby league expansion into fumbleball land.

"There was no guarantee the Storm would even be around after 1998.

But Ribot and his team achieved incredible things. They made the finals in their first season and beat St George-Illawarra to win the grand final in their second. The Storm, rugby league and the city of Melbourne owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to John and the team he put together here.

You can see the difference here between this experience and that of the Suns and GWS. A move to Perth can’t be a suck-it-and-see thing. It needs long-term planning, funding and an all-of-game commitment to making it work.

The second lesson the NRL would need to take on board would be to learn from the Storm experience. Starting a rugby league team in AFL heartland isn’t easy. It takes years and years of winning on the field and work in the community.

You need an experienced coach and a few senior players to build a squad around. You need to win. And you need to commit to spreading the gospel – coaching clinics at schools, interviews … whatever it takes to grow the brand and leave an imprint on the city.

That’s been achieved in Melbourne. We don’t feel like we’re outcasts or foreign to the city. Players like Cronk, Slater, Hoffman, Inglis, Chambers are all household names. We’re not naïve enough to say Victoria isn’t an AFL state, but we’ve been able to find a meaningful place for ourselves."

https://www.athletesvoice.com.au/cameron-smith-expansion-lessons-we-must-learn/

I've been trying to tell you that the Storm have succeeded, against all odds, because they were able to piece together a great team from the remains of the Perth Reds, Hunter Mariners and South Queensland Crushers when those clubs folded in 1997. They recruited talented juniors who went on to become future immortals from Queensland. I remember watching them play for the Northern Suburbs Devils in the Queensland Cup in 1998. They went on to win the whole competition. The club had a bit of a slide after they won the 1999 GF, but they recruited Craig Bellamy as coach in 2003 and those future immortals made their debut that year after they were primed for first grade by a great coach at Norths called Mark Murray.

News Ltd bailed them out year after year for 15 years after they were given a 50% stake in the game.

The odds of all these things happening again for a Perth or Adelaide team are one in a trillion. That's what will need to happen for Perth and Adelaide to succeed.

An ARL commissioner said a Perth-based team would need $200,000,000 to fund the operation.

News Ltd no longer has a stake in the game and is bleeding money through its Foxtel venture to the tune of $2,500,000,000. You won't get any financial assistance there. The ARLC doesn't have money. They recently took out a loan from a company in England. No money from the ARLC to fund your dream. Tony Sage and Peter Cumins don't have that sort of capital. Ziggy Forrest might be able to pull it off, but he's not a rugby league man so he won't given any assistance.

Adelaide doesn't have a single businessman in the country willing to put together an NRL bid.

Can you guarantee a new team in Perth or Adelaide would be able to recruit a coach of the same pedigree as Craig Bellamy, future immortals playing juniors in QLD/NSW to build their team around for over a decade, and a war chest of $200,000,000 to fund the operation?

As for the money initially put in, you can't expect to gain anything without investment, and I suggest you look into some of the heartland clubs and how much the NRL and/or their LC's have had to pump into them to keep them afloat, and continue to do so because they are not solvent despite existing in the home of RL

The Storm required at least $101,500,000 from News Ltd and the ARLC to stay solvent. That's a large investment. The clubs now have a lot of power over the ARLC and will not tolerate that sort of capital being funneled into a new venture in fumbleland land when many of them are struggling to survive. That you can be certain of.

We still don't know how the Storm will go when Smith and Bellamy ride off into the sunset. There isn't anyone like Bellamy and won't be for some time. He's as methodical and prudent as it gets and that's what makes him so much better than anyone else. His attention to detail, intensity, work ethic and rigid rules allows him to get the most out of every player who comes into his system. Average footballers do great things under Bellamy and then go back to being plodders at other clubs. He just knows how to create a machine and make everyone a cog in the system that plays their part, and if they don't he gets rid of them and finds another youngster to fill their role. No one else can do what he does and won't be able to get the most out of the current Storm squad when he calls it quits.

Munster is a bit of a loose cannon and will probably be one of the first to fall to pieces when Bellamy is no longer around to keep him in line. I can see this team falling down the ladder in a big way over the next decade. When they do the crowds will thin out, people will stop watching in Queensland when Brisbane 2 are established and all of a sudden Melbourne will not be attracting as many high end sponsors. The club will then fall back to where it was off the field back in the 00s and early 10s, albeit without News Ltd to bail them out.
 
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greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
That might be the case for now, but we are yet to see what will happen to them when they begin their slide down the ladder. I know you don't rate what I have to say, so I will show you what Cameron Smith, Melbourne Storm great, had to say about rugby league expansion into fumbleball land.

"There was no guarantee the Storm would even be around after 1998.

But Ribot and his team achieved incredible things. They made the finals in their first season and beat St George-Illawarra to win the grand final in their second. The Storm, rugby league and the city of Melbourne owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to John and the team he put together here.

You can see the difference here between this experience and that of the Suns and GWS. A move to Perth can’t be a suck-it-and-see thing. It needs long-term planning, funding and an all-of-game commitment to making it work.

The second lesson the NRL would need to take on board would be to learn from the Storm experience. Starting a rugby league team in AFL heartland isn’t easy. It takes years and years of winning on the field and work in the community.

You need an experienced coach and a few senior players to build a squad around. You need to win. And you need to commit to spreading the gospel – coaching clinics at schools, interviews … whatever it takes to grow the brand and leave an imprint on the city.

That’s been achieved in Melbourne. We don’t feel like we’re outcasts or foreign to the city. Players like Cronk, Slater, Hoffman, Inglis, Chambers are all household names. We’re not naïve enough to say Victoria isn’t an AFL state, but we’ve been able to find a meaningful place for ourselves."

https://www.athletesvoice.com.au/cameron-smith-expansion-lessons-we-must-learn/

I've been trying to tell you that the Storm have succeeded, against all odds, because they were able to piece together a great team from the remains of the Perth Reds, Hunter Mariners and South Queensland Crushers when those clubs folded in 1997. They recruited talented juniors who went on to become future immortals from Queensland. I remember watching them play for the Northern Suburbs Devils in the Queensland Cup in 1998. They went on to win the whole competition. The club had a bit of a slide after they won the 1999 GF, but they recruited Craig Bellamy as coach in 2003 and those future immortals made their debut that year after they were primed for first grade by a great coach at Norths called Mark Murray.

News Ltd bailed them out year after year for 15 years after they were given a 50% stake in the game.

The odds of all these things happening again for a Perth or Adelaide team are one in a trillion. That's what will need to happen for Perth and Adelaide to succeed.

An ARL commissioner said a Perth-based team would need $200,000,000 to fund the operation.

News Ltd no longer has a stake in the game and is bleeding money through its Foxtel venture to the tune of $2,500,000,000. You won't get any financial assistance there. The ARLC doesn't have money. They recently took out a loan from a company in England. No money from the ARLC to fund your dream. Tony Sage and Peter Cumins don't have that sort of capital. Ziggy Forrest might be able to pull it off, but he's not a rugby league man so he won't given any assistance.

Adelaide doesn't have a single businessman in the country willing to put together an NRL bid.

Can you guarantee a new team in Perth or Adelaide would be able to recruit a coach of the same pedigree as Craig Bellamy, future immortals playing juniors in QLD/NSW to build their team around for over a decade, and a war chest of $200,000,000 to fund the operation?



The Storm required at least $101,500,000 from News Ltd and the ARLC to stay solvent. That's a large investment. The clubs now have a lot of power over the ARLC and will not tolerate that sort of capital being funneled into a new venture in fumbleland land when many of them are struggling to survive. That you can be certain of.

Mate, you think the storm are going to go bust and the broncos should be booted out, like it or not they are the 2 safest clubs in the whole competition

Noone has tried to argue expansion would be easy, it most definately wont be, but sometimes you need to have the balls to try something every now and then, but the NRL has continued to show it has no balls what so ever. "Expanding" into heartland areas already represented is not balsy nor true expansion, its the easy move (Brisbane 2 being the exception as the RL city should have a local derby, and should have a LONG time ago).
I suggest you look into some of the heartland clubs and how much the NRL and/or their LC's have had to pump into them to keep them afloat, and continue to do so because they are not solvent despite existing in the home of RL
I noticed you failed to make any comment about this? you act like Melbourne are the only team to ever need money (and news were the clubs owners at the time, its no different to every clubs owners funding them). The NRL has bailed out countless clubs over the years, and many continue to be insolvent, especially without the millions of pokie money wasted away on them. What are those clubs excuses? they are in almost the exact opposite scenario to the one Melbourne are in but yet Melbourne are solvent.
 
Messages
12,703
Mate, you think the storm are going to go bust and the broncos should be booted out, like it or not they are the 2 safest clubs in the whole competition

Melbourne are far from being the 2nd safest club in the competition.

Their whole operation is dependent upon finishing in the top 4 each year with a one of a kind coach on the back of the exploits of 4 immortals from Queensland and retaining a strong brand in the Brisbane metro market. Smith is the only immortal still running around and he's also the best player you've ever had. When he and Bellamy go, and it looks like 2021 will be their swansong, the club is in for some hard times.

Don't think the next generation of Queenslanders will adopt the Storm as their team when Brisbane 2 enter the big league and Storm are sliding down the ladder with a team that has no future immortals from Queensland. Take away those strong ratings from Brisbane and Storm are not left with much.

The Cowboys are a more successful operation off the field than the Storm, despite the club having to scrape tooth and nail for everything it has ever gotten in a small regional city. It regularly turns a profit and is an icon throughout the north of the state.The same cannot be said about Melbourne.

Noone has tried to argue expansion would be easy, it most definately wont be, but sometimes you need to have the balls to try something every now and then, but the NRL has continued to show it has no balls what so ever. "Expanding" into heartland areas already represented is not balsy nor true expansion, its the easy move (Brisbane 2 being the exception as the RL city should have a local derby, and should have a LONG time ago).

The constant theme on this sub-forum is Sydney needs to be rationalised and Brisbane kept to a maximum of 2 clubs. It's in every thread and has been going on for years. Anyone who dares to go against the group think is ostracised.

Look at what you all did to Stallion, just because you didn't like his ideas.

You're being disingenuous by saying it's just a matter of having "balls". Expansion is funded by capital. Lot's of it. From 1998 until 2018 the Storm were given $101,500,000 in funds from News Ltd and the ARLC to keep them from going belly up. Add on inflation and that amount would be far higher for any club starting out today. It's why an ARL Commissioner said it will require $200 million from an investor to bankroll a Perth team. No one in Australia who has the kind of dough lying around is willing to spend it on the West Coast Pirates. Perth Red and his mates can jump up and down about the NRL having no vision or whatever it is he says when his fantasy is publicly knocked back by the ARLC, but at the end of the day if the money isn't there then it cannot be done.

Brisbane 2 and Brisbane 3 have a long list of investors lining up to fund them should they be admitted into the NRL. They will also have no trouble developing a strong core of supporters in a true RL city. The audience is already here waiting for them to come into the NRL. In Perth and Adelaide that audience will need to be created from scratch while a much larger and better funded beast (AwFuL) constantly tells them to only look at their game.

Local derbies in Brisbane will generate crowds at Lang Park of over 40,000. possibly even 52,500 sellouts. That's guaranteed money for both clubs participating in the game. We know that Brisbane metro tune in to watch the Queensland clubs and the one they've adopted from Melbourne, so there will be a spike in TV ratings in this market. Ch9 and Foxtel both want more teams in Brisbane. They don't want Perth or Adelaide. They pay the bills.

AwFuL generates more income than the NRL through its superior attendances. Adding teams into Brisbane will improve the NRL's attendances, bridging the gap between us and them.

The only way the game grows its revenue through expansion is by adding 2 or 3 teams to Brisbane. Any team added to Perth or Adelaide will cost it a fortune that it does not have.

Despite all the school clinics and media attention the Storm have gotten in Melbourne, only 3,500 Victorians play the game and less than 50,000 watch regularly on FTA and PayTV. That's a poor return on the $101,500,000 that was spent keeping them afloat. Without Queensland's strong ratings they would probably have been wound up by now.

I noticed you failed to make any comment about this? you act like Melbourne are the only team to ever need money (and news were the clubs owners at the time, its no different to every clubs owners funding them). The NRL has bailed out countless clubs over the years, and many continue to be insolvent, especially without the millions of pokie money wasted away on them. What are those clubs excuses? they are in almost the exact opposite scenario to the one Melbourne are in but yet Melbourne are solvent.

How many clubs have required $101,500,000 in funds to keep them solvent since 1998?

Only Melbourne Storm.

The Titans were bailed out after the Centre for Excellence mismanagement by Michael Searle. The current consortium that own them wanted to buy the licence long before the NRL put it up for tender, which would have saved the ARLC a lot of money. That club has survived despite being run like a public toilet that's never cleaned. Until recently, the Storm bleed money like a haemophiliac despite being at the top of the ladder every bloody year for the bulk of their existence. Let's wait until the Storm have a few years like the Titans before we declare them a success. If they can survive a period of 5 or 10 lean years then they've made it, but we cannot say that yet as it's never happened.

Dragons ran into some trouble but it was sorted out.

Wests had some trouble due to the Balmain side of the venture falling through, but the Magpies are strong. The NRL wouldn't let the Magpies buy out the licence as they wanted it to remain a merged entity.

Newcastle's problems began and ended with Nathan Tinkler.

Cronulla has always found a way to survive.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,308
Perth might do better than Melbourne. Soccer did well over there. They are somewhat starved of good sports teams. I am not convinced they are as mad about AFL as Melbourne. It may just be that that’s all they have had forever.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
Biggest issue for any expansion club is corporate support. It makes up around 30-40% of revenue and you are competing against established and bigger brands for that corporate $. Even in heartland it’s a battle, look at dogs who couldn’t find another major sponsor after the restaurant guy pulled out this year.

fans not such an issue, you can build a fanbase with hard work, good management and a winning team over the years.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,308
Biggest issue for any expansion club is corporate support. It makes up around 30-40% of revenue and you are competing against established and bigger brands for that corporate $. Even in heartland it’s a battle, look at dogs who couldn’t find another major sponsor after the restaurant guy pulled out this year.

fans not such an issue, you can build a fanbase with hard work, good management and a winning team over the years.

true which makes ignoring the north shore weird. And Newcastle not working the central coast.
 
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12,703
Perth might do better than Melbourne. Soccer did well over there. They are somewhat starved of good sports teams. I am not convinced they are as mad about AFL as Melbourne. It may just be that that’s all they have had forever.
The Perth Glory got very good crowds in the NSL. They were also the glamour club of the competition. Crowds dropped for the Glory in the A-League, but they're no longer the biggest club in the country.

Perth will support a non-AwFuL team provided it is dominating its competitors. It is much easier to do this in niche sports like baseball, basketball and the old NSL. NRL is a bridge too far with the cost of running a football club being much greater and Queensland/NSW having first choice of juniours.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,645
How many clubs have required $101,500,000 in funds to keep them solvent since 1998?

Only Melbourne Storm.

The Titans were bailed out after the Centre for Excellence mismanagement by Michael Searle. The current consortium that own them wanted to buy the licence long before the NRL put it up for tender, which would have saved the ARLC a lot of money. That club has survived despite being run like a public toilet that's never cleaned. Until recently, the Storm bleed money like a haemophiliac despite being at the top of the ladder every bloody year for the bulk of their existence. Let's wait until the Storm have a few years like the Titans before we declare them a success. If they can survive a period of 5 or 10 lean years then they've made it, but we cannot say that yet as it's never happened.

Dragons ran into some trouble but it was sorted out.

Wests had some trouble due to the Balmain side of the venture falling through, but the Magpies are strong. The NRL wouldn't let the Magpies buy out the licence as they wanted it to remain a merged entity.

Newcastle's problems began and ended with Nathan Tinkler.

Cronulla has always found a way to survive.
The Swans have had an absurd amount of money blown on them, both by that creepy old doctor and by the AFL. It’s part and parcel of expanding into enemy territory. The Swans have benefited from some extremely fortunate timing; the Super League war and subsequent rationalisations happened around the same time the Swans had that Plugger bloke who could kick the ball a bit straighter than your average AFL flog. The Storm haven’t been able to capitalise on an AFL Super League war, they’ve just had to grind it out in a city where AFL is a quasi religion.

Post News Limited, they’ve now got people like Matt Tripp involved- he’s not one to back losers. Nearly all of his major moves in the business world have been successful and he’s got all the right connections. They’ll be fine, having a team in the country’s second biggest city is a must.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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65,849
The Swans have had an absurd amount of money blown on them, both by that creepy old doctor and by the AFL. It’s part and parcel of expanding into enemy territory. The Swans have benefited from some extremely fortunate timing; the Super League war and subsequent rationalisations happened around the same time the Swans had that Plugger bloke who could kick the ball a bit straighter than your average AFL flog. The Storm haven’t been able to capitalise on an AFL Super League war, they’ve just had to grind it out in a city where AFL is a quasi religion.

Post News Limited, they’ve now got people like Matt Tripp involved- he’s not one to back losers. Nearly all of his major moves in the business world have been successful and he’s got all the right connections. They’ll be fine, having a team in the country’s second biggest city is a must.

it’s crazy swans have got 62k members yet most Sydney clubs struggle to get 20k!
Storm are run by savvy businessmen, have strong corporate support, one of the biggest active fanbases in the nrl and don’t look liKe hitting a bad slump on the field anytime soon. Considering some nrl clubs require $1-3mill plus of pokie funding every year to stay afloat storm rank well in the sustainability stakes in comparison.
I can onLy hope that if we ever get a club it’s as successful on and off the field as the Storm.
 
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