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NRL Expansion Priorities

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,873
yes because once you cross the spit bridge into mosman there are loads of manly fans

no one in the upper or lower north shore gives a stuff about the sea eagles.

despite all of manly's recent grand final success their support is still from the peninsula

the north shore couldnt give two stuffs

That's not true, go into Cremorne Hotel, The Oaks, The Duck or Willoughby hotel (for example) during a Manly game- there's generally a good number of vocal Manly fans and some casual Manly supporters watching on. Manly support is far stronger among young people than older demographics on the North Shore, e.g. go check out Northbridge Hotel after the three young guys who bought it did it up- you'll notice very prominent Manly memorabilia on the wall there.

I'm not saying everyone on the North Shore's a Manly fan, far from it, but we definitely have support there, particularly among younger generations.
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
That's not true, go into Cremorne Hotel, The Oaks, The Duck or Willoughby hotel (for example) during a Manly game- there's generally a good number of vocal Manly fans and some casual Manly supporters watching on. Manly support is far stronger among young people than older demographics on the North Shore, e.g. go check out Northbridge Hotel after the three young guys who bought it did it up- you'll notice very prominent Manly memorabilia on the wall there.

I'm not saying everyone on the North Shore's a Manly fan, far from it, but we definitely have support there, particularly among younger generations.

ive been in the Oaks on a sat night with AFL, Super 15 and league

they had the league on a small screen, and i was one of the few watching

its union first then AFL up there

the bears kept them in check when they were in

what happened to them is sad and tbh i dont think theyll be coming back

they were an unnecesary victim of the SL war when teams that offered far less were allowed to stay in

had gallop allowed them in a few years back ill bet they woudlve been a hit

but now we need to get perth happening ASAP

and more teams in queensland

its time we got to being the dominant winter football code and the bears wont help with that like other places

id happily have 2 more "brisbane teams" and central queensland too down the track to go with the 3 sides we have now
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,873
ive been in the Oaks on a sat night with AFL, Super 15 and league

they had the league on a small screen, and i was one of the few watching

its union first then AFL up there

the bears kept them in check when they were in

what happened to them is sad and tbh i dont think theyll be coming back

they were an unnecesary victim of the SL war when teams that offered far less were allowed to stay in

had gallop allowed them in a few years back ill bet they woudlve been a hit

but now we need to get perth happening ASAP

and more teams in queensland

its time we got to being the dominant winter football code and the bears wont help with that like other places

id happily have 2 more "brisbane teams" and central queensland too down the track to go with the 3 sides we have now

I've been in there a few times with all three playing, and unless it's a Yawnion test or one of the Waratah's big games, RL is generally on the most screens there, or at least close to- I've never seen AFL be shown over either Rugby, but I've never been there during AFL finals. The other places are similar, they'll generally show a Wallabies game over NRL, but NRL is what gets shown the most.
 
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ek999

First Grade
Messages
6,977
Last time I was at The Oaks in Neutral Bay they had a Parra match vs the Raiders (I think) on most screens including the big one out in the beer garden. Both AFL and Union were on the smaller screens
 

papabear

Juniors
Messages
973
Manly are too shit of a club to engage their own shitty little community let alone the rugby league community they boned.It is a myth that manly have fans on the north shore, almost every sydney side bar penrith, sharkies and the dogs would have more fans on the north shore then manly.
Parramatta maybe - but really they shouold focus on the mainline and hills a bit more. They really should be selling out parra stadium each week but to be fair they have stunk it up on the field for a while now.
Tigers maybe - could work hard and pick up a lot of fans.
Easts - have a similar sort of culture but to be honest they are also garbage at engaging eastern sydney so I cant see them introducing junior programs and getting players in schools engaging the north shore.

IMO the cc bid although its behind perth, would add more to the NRL then manly by far and other clubs.
 
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reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,873
Manly are too shit of a club to engage their own shitty little community let alone the rugby league community they boned.It is a myth that manly have fans on the north shore, almost every sydney side bar penrith, sharkies and the dogs would have more fans on the north shore then manly.

No way. Souths and Tigers (in areas) are the other clubs with good numbers of supporters in the area. Maybe Parra too closer to the Hills, but certainly not in the areas closer to the Northern Beaches.

Btw, you may want to consider the fact that if it weren't for Manly and Easts, the two clubs you're bagging, keeping the ARL strong and helping stave off Super League, we'd still be getting bent over by News and we probably wouldn't have the game striving to hit the new heights it's aiming for at the moment.
 
Messages
207
No way. Souths and Tigers (in areas) are the other clubs with good numbers of supporters in the area. Maybe Parra too closer to the Hills, but certainly not in the areas closer to the Northern Beaches.

Btw, you may want to consider the fact that if it weren't for Manly and Easts, the two clubs you're bagging, keeping the ARL strong and helping stave off Super League, we'd still be getting bent over by News and we probably wouldn't have the game striving to hit the new heights it's aiming for at the moment.

Manly and the Roosters saved the ARL from Super League, I think you'll find the jewel in the ARL's crown was the Newcastle Knights thats why Super League created the Hunter Mariners. Arko used his lofty position and saved Manlys backside and drove the Bears into oblivion....FACT.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Btw, you may want to consider the fact that if it weren't for Manly and Easts, the two clubs you're bagging, keeping the ARL strong and helping stave off Super League, we'd still be getting bent over by News and we probably wouldn't have the game striving to hit the new heights it's aiming for at the moment.

Yeah to claim that Manly and Easts were the driving force behind the ARL winning the 'war' (always hated calling it a war) is just simply not true for the one reason that any fair analysis shows the ARL lost the war, though not decisively it was a loss all the same.

But even if the ARL had won the war and it was because of the Roosters and Manly that they won, what difference does it make!?

Are you claiming that they are infallible or that they are above criticism because of their part in the war, because I hate to be a downer but on both counts that would be BS, if it were true of course.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,873
Yeah to claim that Manly and Easts were the driving force behind the ARL winning the 'war' (always hated calling it a war) is just simply not true for the one reason that any fair analysis shows the ARL lost the war, though not decisively it was a loss all the same.

But even if the ARL had won the war and it was because of the Roosters and Manly that they won, what difference does it make!?

Are you claiming that they are infallible or that they are above criticism because of their part in the war, because I hate to be a downer but on both counts that would be BS, if it were true of course.

No, I'm not claiming they're infallible, just that without the cash and resources that Manly and Easts brought to the table (I'm not saying they were the only ones, just that those 2 clubs in particular were key), Super League would have dominated and the ARL wouldn't have been able to compete. If the ARL hadn't been able to compete, it's pretty clear what would've happened, News would have owned the game, even moreso than they did post unification. Yeah, the ARL was the one who lost the power at the end of the war, but the ARL putting up a strong fight laid the groundwork for the conditions that led to News' eventual exit from the game and the establishment of the ARLC and what we're getting now- a News free power structure and strong growth and progress.

I mentioned it as people love to take potshots at Manly for being small, or for having a limited focus etc- Super League and Manly's involvement f**ked the club, it was incredibly close to going under until recently. By focusing on reconnecting with the club's core supporter base, Manly's slowly but surely turned things around off-field, it's taken a long time though.
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
it was manly and easts that saved the ARL. if either had jumped ship we were dead. and it cost the manly club they almost went broke as the arl couldnt afford to back them like others

convincing newcsatle not to defect was the key though. if it wasnt for gus they were gone and that wouldve sunk us

what really saved us was the 97 grand final. after that i think if we had waited a year or two more Super League wouldve gone broke.

the ARL was losing too much money to hold on for a complete victory as was news ltd

if the ARL had held out, the game would be in far better shape now

we wouldnt have lost perth, gold coast or 2nd brisbane team

illawarra would have their own team, cronulla taken over by dragons
 

papabear

Juniors
Messages
973
No way. Souths and Tigers (in areas) are the other clubs with good numbers of supporters in the area. Maybe Parra too closer to the Hills, but certainly not in the areas closer to the Northern Beaches.

Btw, you may want to consider the fact that if it weren't for Manly and Easts, the two clubs you're bagging, keeping the ARL strong and helping stave off Super League, we'd still be getting bent over by News and we probably wouldn't have the game striving to hit the new heights it's aiming for at the moment.
Who knows if it werent for the bears if the game would have been in the same shape it was for manly to enter into the competition.

History arguments are pathetic.

Moving forward everyone knows manly are to shit of a club to engage anyone outside of the peninsular, anyone going for manly outside of the peninsular generally follows them because of family or because they came from their. Even in the face of the great success they have had throughout their existance and recently they have failed to grow their junior competition, failed to grow their brand, failed to grow the amount of their supporters, and to be honest failed to grow the quality of their juniors.

They are a shit club, some sort of enforced extending of their influence would be madness.

The only rugby league clubs trying to engage the north shore now are bears clubs, not manly ones...
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
Who knows if it werent for the bears if the game would have been in the same shape it was for manly to enter into the competition.

History arguments are pathetic.

Moving forward everyone knows manly are to shit of a club to engage anyone outside of the peninsular, anyone going for manly outside of the peninsular generally follows them because of family or because they came from their. Even in the face of the great success they have had throughout their existance and recently they have failed to grow their junior competition, failed to grow their brand, failed to grow the amount of their supporters, and to be honest failed to grow the quality of their juniors.

They are a shit club, some sort of enforced extending of their influence would be madness.

The only rugby league clubs trying to engage the north shore now are bears clubs, not manly ones...

if the bears had gone to super league theyd be in the comp now instead of cronulla

ditto for balmain and wests
 
Messages
207
I mentioned it as people love to take potshots at Manly for being small, or for having a limited focus etc- Super League and Manly's involvement f**ked the club, it was incredibly close to going under until recently. By focusing on reconnecting with the club's core supporter base, Manly's slowly but surely turned things around off-field, it's taken a long time though.

I think you will find that it was Max Delmege who saved the Sea Eagles from going under not them focussing on the clubs core supporter base WTF. The same Max Delmege who the Sea Eagles and Scott Penn spurned when in bankruptcy.....shame on you Manly.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,873
Who knows if it werent for the bears if the game would have been in the same shape it was for manly to enter into the competition.

History arguments are pathetic.

Moving forward everyone knows manly are to shit of a club to engage anyone outside of the peninsular, anyone going for manly outside of the peninsular generally follows them because of family or because they came from their. Even in the face of the great success they have had throughout their existance and recently they have failed to grow their junior competition, failed to grow their brand, failed to grow the amount of their supporters, and to be honest failed to grow the quality of their juniors.

They are a shit club, some sort of enforced extending of their influence would be madness.

The only rugby league clubs trying to engage the north shore now are bears clubs, not manly ones...
The reason I brought up history was because it has a large role to play in Manly's recent circumstances. The SL war decimated the club- it no longer has the vast amount of cash it used to have to throw at junior programs, advertising and other growth programs. Manly's success onfield is more down to astute player purchases, good culture and raw drive than the ability to throw money around.

The bottom line is that the whole 'war for the west' crap is absolute madness- RL out there is in no real danger, GWS is a total basket case, yet that hasn't stopped the NRL from hitting the panic button and focusing all their attention there while letting the North languish. Parra, Penrith, Canterbury haven't had the same monetary troubles that Manly has had, nor is there a hole out there where a club was killed off. The North is a very valuable area, the NRL should be trying to fix the situation up- whether it's by helping Manly cover it all (which they could do, despite your protests) or by bringing in the Bears, something has to be done. It can't keep sitting there as it is now, with the zombie Bears NSWRL club being able to keep Manly out from developing the area thanks to NSWRL boundaries, with very little development happening there, thanks to the Bears not having much in the way of money or star attraction. The Souths-Bears relationship is a farce, it does nothing for the area.
I think you will find that it was Max Delmege who saved the Sea Eagles from going under not them focussing on the clubs core supporter base WTF. The same Max Delmege who the Sea Eagles and Scott Penn spurned when in bankruptcy.....shame on you Manly.

Yeah, obviously the sponsors and backers were key players there, I was referring to how the club wasn't out there splashing cash on advertising, pushing their way into other areas and the like- the club simply didn't have the funds to do anything like that, so they focused on their core supporter base and worked on bringing them back. Without the sponsors like Delmege, none of that would have been possible, but if Manly went out and started throwing wads of cash on programs on the North Shore (even through they aren't allowed to, thanks to NSWRL boundaries), or wherever else, they'd no longer be around- they simply didn't have the capability.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
I just want to make something clear for those that don't already know, the Superleague's downfall was not that they couldn't convince the Eagles or Roosters to jump ship, it was that they couldn't convince the Bears and Knights to jump ship.

If the Superleague had gained the NS market (Bears) and Hunter market (Knights) on top of the others that they did gain (they got majority shares of WestS, SouthS, Bris, Perth, NQ, CAN and NZ) as they intended, they would have easily overwhelmed the ARL and we'd all be sitting here talking about the next Superleague Australia 2014 season.

The only things that saved the ARL from complete obliteration was the fact that they still had the their richest market at the time (NS) and many wealthy backers (such as Politis and Delmege, but not just them) that were willing to pay almost anything to keep the ARL kicking for as long as they possibly could without their other most valuable markets (at the time) to back them up anymore.

At the end of the day the only reason that Murdoch doesn't own RL right now is because the Bears and the Knights didn't jump on board and he knew that in the end it was either going to cost him billions to overwhelm the ARL without them or he would have to try and replace them, once he figured out that attempting to replace them (Hunter Mariners was his first attempt as you know) was going to cost him hundreds of millions of dollars before it was a success he realized that it was much cheaper for him to make a truce with the ARL where he was for all intents and purposes the majority stakeholder.
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
agreed

except delmege wasnt involved with manly back then it was arko

they had no real backers and went to the wall financially due to SL, with little choice but a shotgun merger with norths

if i were a manly fun id be amazed how they managed to not only escape from that, but also a stupid merger to be a powerhouse today

thats because delmege came on board and also hasler

and if murdoch had got total control of the game it would be stuffed

more than likely AFL would have taken over australia
 
Messages
207
I just want to make something clear for those that don't already know, the Superleague's downfall was not that they couldn't convince the Eagles or Roosters to jump ship, it was that they couldn't convince the Bears and Knights to jump ship.

If the Superleague had gained the NS market (Bears) and Hunter market (Knights) on top of the others that they did gain (they got majority shares of WestS, SouthS, Bris, Perth, NQ, CAN and NZ) as they intended, they would have easily overwhelmed the ARL and we'd all be sitting here talking about the next Superleague Australia 2014 season.

The only things that saved the ARL from complete obliteration was the fact that they still had the their richest market at the time (NS) and many wealthy backers (such as Politis and Delmege, but not just them) that were willing to pay almost anything to keep the ARL kicking for as long as they possibly could without their other most valuable markets (at the time) to back them up anymore.

At the end of the day the only reason that Murdoch doesn't own RL right now is because the Bears and the Knights didn't jump on board and he knew that in the end it was either going to cost him billions to overwhelm the ARL without them or he would have to try and replace them, once he figured out that attempting to replace them (Hunter Mariners was his first attempt as you know) was going to cost him hundreds of millions of dollars before it was a success he realized that it was much cheaper for him to make a truce with the ARL where he was for all intents and purposes the majority stakeholder.

100% correct :)
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,873
I just want to make something clear for those that don't already know, the Superleague's downfall was not that they couldn't convince the Eagles or Roosters to jump ship, it was that they couldn't convince the Bears and Knights to jump ship.

That's because the Sea Eagles and Roosters were pretty much never going to switch, News knew that they were solidly aligned with the ARL, that's why they worked on Norths. That doesn't change the fact that without Manly and Easts, the ARL wouldn't have had the strength to take on SL in the way that they did. The Knights were also key to the ARL, but if it had been, for example, Cronulla that remained with the ARL, and Easts that switched, the battle was effectively over there and then.
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
and if the dogs had never left the ARL Super LEague wouldve had no chance.

they were the only decent sydney side they had

if bullfrog hadnt betrayed Arko i doubt it wouldve got off the ground
 

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