Perth Red
Post Whore
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Common sense and all the indications from the arlc and Dave smith.
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I'd have to agree there, the hatred has faded significantly in recent times- Manly's no longer a dirty word like it used to be. Building on the existing Manly brand while incorporating the North Shore into the club's existing identity and naming scheme is, in my opinion, the best move to make.
That's not really a bad thing though, unlike how it might be to those in older generations (at least in RL terms), Manly isn't a dirty word to young people on the North Shore. Manly has a lot of positive connotations for young people and, especially in the case of the south half of the Northern Beaches and the lower North Shore, there's a lot of intermingling, with the two regions bleeding into each other a lot. Lots of young people from the Northern Beaches and North Shore go to school together, go out together (with Manly itself being a key destination there) and work together. Having their RL team be called Manly-North Shore, with it being nicknamed and known generally as Manly for short, wouldn't really be an offensive proposition to them, at all. The more professional commentators, such as Sterlo, still go out of their way to call clubs by their full, proper name, e.g. he often calls the Bulldogs the 'Canterbury-Bankstown club', the Dragons 'St. George-Illawarra' etc.
I'd agree with you there on both points. The Bears brand could work anywhere, but if it was based on the CC, there's no doubt they'd cause trouble and endlessly complain (at least at the beginning) if the North Shore was zoned as being Sea Eagles territory. There'd be the usual news articles (News Ltd would have a field day with all the 'controversy' they could cause), no doubt with the standard picture of old Bears supporters wearing Bears jerseys with their arms folded with a headline along the lines of 'GIVE US BACK OUR HOME... Bears fans tell Sea Eagles to give back the North Shore'. That would likely happen in some form even if the Bears were killed off for good.
Never work in reality? It's the CC + NS idea that would never work in reality. There's very little synergy between the CC and NS, despite the claims of those who support the Bears covering both the CC and NS. The CC is hard to get to for a large portion of the NS (especially when it comes to making evening kick off times after work), isn't an appealing place to travel to for casual/non-hardcore RL fans (e.g. you've got next-to-no chance of getting a casual RL fan in somewhere like Willoughby or Cremorne to travel up to Gosford for games, no matter what day they're on, a 20-30 minute bus trip to the Beaches though is a far easier and more appealing proposition) and leaves the North Shore with a weak, token RL presence.
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Then, outside of a small group of Bears hardcores, you'll be doing your money. It'll be effectively impossible to make kickoff on Friday/Monday games for a lot of NS fans who work. Plus, as I said, the Central Coast isn't exactly destination number one for a lot of people from the NS, people don't move freely between the two like they do with the NS and NB (the closest suburbs to the CC still have a long drive on a freeway at 110km/h to do), and the CC generally isn't viewed as an appealing place to go to. You go around and survey people from the North Shore (especially the lower North Shore) and ask how many are planning to, or would like to have a day out in Gosford/the CC this weekend vs how many are planning to go somewhere, or would like to go somewhere on the Northern Beaches/Manly this weekend. It's just not something that happens, the two areas have very little synergy, it's the Bears who are forcing something that doesn't make sense and that doesn't really happen in reality.
They're only planning on playing one game at NSO- one game at NSO will do very little in terms of strengthening RL in the area. You've got next-to-no chance at turning casual and bandwagon NS fans into hardcore fans making regular trips to the CC, all it'll do is give the NS a weak, token RL presence, with the NSO game regarded as a once-a-year novelty.
The North Shore would also be better looked after if Manly was allowed full access to it. Suggesting that the Bears will be able to look after both regions equally well is laughable, one will end up suffering, as is the notion that putting juniors from Mosman into the same system as the CC makes for a clear pathway.
Here's your problem, you're thinking far, far too much about the old Bears fans, no they won't ever accept another team other than the Bears, but there's only so many of them, and as time goes on, there are less and less of them and more and more kids and young people who grew up not caring about the Bears, and who wouldn't really give a damn about their return. It's the kids and young people who a rezoning of the North Shore would be targeted at, and who should be targeted. As I said, young people from both regions already mix and intermingle a lot already, I work on the North Shore and nearly all the guys I work with in their 20s follow Manly in some form (most follow Manly and the Wallabies), not to mention that the two regions already play RL in the same local comp- building upon that makes far more sense than trying to make the CC + NS work.
That's a pretty damn big point when the Bears are supposed to represent a large portion of Sydney. If they can't get to games, then something about the bid seems very, very, very wrong.
If that's the case, then why do they want/need the North Shore? The old Bears fans will come back into the fold regardless of whether they hold the NS or not. If they don't need the North Shore to be successful, then give the area up to Manly who have far better access to it and focus on the CC, rather than trying to spread themselves ridiculously thin and relegating RL on the NS to a token presence only.
With all other games far away on the CC, or 10+ games in an extremely close area? Who knows, Manly may even have to use NSO for a while when Brookvale gets redeveloped. :shock:
It would be far, far easier for Manly as both regions are right next door to each other. They aren't separated by a long drive on a freeway, you can literally drive from the edge of the North Shore to the edge of the Northern Beaches in 30 seconds (if that). That can't be understated, major shopping centres and residential areas such as Chatswood are >=20 minutes drive from Brookvale Oval- it's far, far easier for Manly to get around the NS and do promo work, school visits, clinics etc, rather than have one team try and cover the extremely large CC as well as the NS.
They'd go into Souths U/20's at the moment, wouldn't they? And if the area were to come under the Sea Eagles, they'd go into the Sea Eagles U/20's. That doesn't address how ludicrous it would be having juniors from Mosman and the CC come under the same system.
Not all people, mainly young people. The return of the Bears on the CC will bring those Bears supporters back to the game regardless of whether they hold the NS as part of their territory. Give the North Shore to the Sea Eagles to develop and give the Bears only the CC and you've got a far better chance of turning young, casual RL fans on the North Shore into more hardcore RL fans who will make regular trips to games etc.
I know all that, but blaming Manly for the fall of Norths isn't telling the whole story, Norths were broke, they were going to get cut with the post SL rationalisation, Manly was also in a bad state after they helped fight off SL, but still nowhere near as bad as Norths. Manly was always going to get a licence, Norths weren't, but the two decided to band together to see if they could make it work and to try and stem the financial damage that SL caused them. Norths still bled money, crowds on the CC decreased rapidly and weren't making the JV money, and the board fought constantly. Manly knew they could be successful again as a standalone club (as they were before) and held the licence, whereas the Norths side of it was in a bad way, continuing the unhealthy relationship could have killed off both clubs for good.
Yes, Manly would want to and has attempted to do work in the area recently, but it has resulted in the Bears running off to the NSWRL, trying to keep Manly out.
Of course Manly would change their name if it meant access to hundreds of thousands of new fans while maintaining their old homeland, and if they got to keep the Manly name in some form in the process.
I'm not only speaking as a Manly fan here, I'm speaking as someone with a lot of friends in the area and who works and spends a lot of time on the North Shore. While I admit I have some bias, I'm also echoing the views of people I know from the area, people who have grown up mostly without the Bears (I.e. they don't care about them, so their views are a good indicator of what people in the area who aren't tied to the Bears in any way think) and who think the CC Bears holding the NS is a stupid idea.
