NRL Expansion Priorities

[The Great Dane]

I understand the history and what has happened with the Gold Coast Titans/Chargers/Seagulls etc.

The whole point of my original thread was that there was a team on the Gold Coast and representing the Gold Coast (yes I know originally based out of Tweed Heads because Broncos had an exclusive South East Queensland license) from 1988 to 1998.

It is as simple as that and no need to think/seem superior and go and make corrections. If you were going to make corrections to Gold Coast you should have also made corrections to clubs that have changed names (Bulldogs, Roosters etc) and clubs that have changed ownership/structure/business model (Broncos, Storm, Rabbitohs, Sea-Eagles).

You didn't so lets move on!

No lets not move on, what you are saying is factually incorrect, there for you're spreading incorrect information (whether you realise it or not). I'm not being "superior" I'm just politely correcting your mistakes.

The mistake you are making is you are failing to realise that when the Seagulls sold their license to Jeff Muller it was the same as a failing KFC selling their old facilities to a new McDonald's franchise, which is a little different to when a business has a change of leadership or branding, wouldn't you agree.

 

[beave]

Splitting hairs really. I see where both of you are coming from.

Let's just hope GC version 6.0 is the last upgrade for this area. Giants, Seagulls, Gladiators, Chargers, Dolphins, Titans, anymore and they would run out of mascots to use..... I can't believe the dramas and crisis'sss one club/area has had in 25 years.

 

[Benny]

No lets not move on, what you are saying is factually incorrect, there for you're spreading incorrect information (whether you realise it or not). I'm not being "superior" I'm just politely correcting your mistakes.

The mistake you are making is you are failing to realise that when the Seagulls sold their license to Jeff Muller it was the same as a failing KFC selling their old facilities to a new McDonald's franchise, which is a little different to when a business has a change of leadership or branding, wouldn't you agree.

You've never explained why you didn't 'politely correct my mistakes' as you put it to Souths, Manly, Melbourne, Newcastle etc What is so different to them compared to Gold Coast apart from Gold Coast changed name slightly?

No I wouldn't agree that it is the same thing - not even close. The example you used was a KFC franchise selling facilities to a McDonalds franchise. How is that even close to selling a license to run a Rugby League team on the Gold Coast in the NSWRL?

If you sold all the facilities and they became an AFL, RU of Soccer club - then it'd be a similar analogy.

Though the correct analogy would be a struggling KFC franchise sells franchise to another person/group. They might bring in new people, change business model etc but effectively it is the same thing. In the same market/location against the same opposition.

That has been my point all along.

 

[Perth Red]

Going to be interesting to see how the NRL announces the next expansion areas and what they do to lessen the disappointment in the regions who are not identified as a priority.

 

[The Great Dane]

You've never explained why you didn't 'politely correct my mistakes' as you put it to Souths, Manly, Melbourne, Newcastle etc What is so different to them compared to Gold Coast apart from Gold Coast changed name slightly?

Because none of those clubs (apart from the Northern Eagles fiasco, which you mentioned) ever were removed to be replaced with a completely new club to represent their old area, they are all the same business as they were when they first started, different owners and the such yes, but still the foundation club and not clubs that have folded to be replaced new clubs, there for their were no mistakes pertaining to those clubs for me to correct (unless I am mistaken).

But you're right I did forget to add another club which went through another similar situation in the Auckland Warriors - NZ Warriors situation to your list, because like when the Seagulls went broke to be replaced by the Gladiators, the NZ Warriors were actually a new club (a separate organisation) from the Auckland Warriors, they may share a name and/or a region that they represent (just like the GC-Tweed teams) but they are not the same company/business/organisation/etc as the original Auckland Warriors who are now defunct.

No I wouldn't agree that it is the same thing - not even close. The example you used was a KFC franchise selling facilities to a McDonalds franchise. How is that even close to selling a license to run a Rugby League team on the Gold Coast in the NSWRL?

If you sold all the facilities and they became an AFL, RU of Soccer club - then it'd be a similar analogy.

Though the correct analogy would be a struggling KFC franchise sells franchise to another person/group. They might bring in new people, change business model etc but effectively it is the same thing. In the same market/location against the same opposition.

That has been my point all along.

All right if you like i'll use a different analogy, the mistake you are making is that you are looking at it as if the owner of Bob's fish and chips shop has sold his business to a new owner, when what has really happened is Bob's fish and chips shop has gone broke to be replaced by a new fish and chips shop that are renting the same shop front that Bob used to rent. So two different business's not related in anyway that just happened to sell the same product from the same building at to different times in history.

Is that better, I think it is I like fish and chips more anyway.

 

[girvie]

The North Shore would also be better looked after if Manly was allowed full access to it. Suggesting that the Bears will be able to look after both regions equally well is laughable, one will end up suffering, as is the notion that putting juniors from Mosman into the same system as the CC makes for a clear pathway.

Juniors from both the Central Coast and North Sydney districts would feed into the Central Coast Bears as they would both have Harold Matthews and SG Ball sides as well as junior development squads for the age groups below. This provides a better pathway for North Sydney than if they fed into Manly. If they feed directly into Manly's junior rep teams then only a portion of them would make the team and it would also reduce the number of Manly local juniors within their own squads.

Neither area would end up suffering, as you have suggested, as the Central Coast Bears would represent both areas and both districts would benefit from having a direct link with an NRL team.

 

[reanimate]

Juniors from both the Central Coast and North Sydney districts would feed into the Central Coast Bears as they would both have Harold Matthews and SG Ball sides as well as junior development squads for the age groups below. This provides a better pathway for North Sydney than if they fed into Manly. If they feed directly into Manly's junior rep teams then only a portion of them would make the team and it would also reduce the number of Manly local juniors within their own squads.

Neither area would end up suffering, as you have suggested, as the Central Coast Bears would represent both areas and both districts would benefit from having a direct link with an NRL team.

Manly could also have that structure and run squads from both regions feeding into the Sea Eagles, that's not something that only the Central Coast Bears could do or something that they have exclusivity on. It would also make far more sense than having juniors from Mosman, Willoughby etc. feed into a CC team.

 

[CC_Roosters]

Would love the bears to be admitted based at Gosford but it seems to me that Perth, Qld and nz are greater priorities for new teams. Most likely would be Dragons style split between a smaller Sydney club within 5-10 years. Perhaps the sharks, manly or Roosters are most likely imo. I notice that manly have a lot of fans here perhaps second to only souths, so alhough it would be repeating history and pissing off the bears I think they would be the best fit.
Maybe the bears brand could be relocated to another market, maybe SEQ, CQ or Adelaide?

 

[morley101]

I would expect Perth to be included 1st and then PNG.

PNG appear to be getting their corpoarte support together and their stadium will be ready by 2015. If included I would expect a major upgrade to the televsion deal from PNG. I believe it is the best for international RL for this to happen.

 

[Perth Red]

They have found $3mill a year to run a qland cup team, if they can make a sustained success of that they may well be considered in years to come.

 

[Sparky 74]

I say a real national comp is required for the Nrl.

Teams in the following areas are a must

Melbourne
Perth
Adelaide
Brisbane
Gold Coast
North Queensland
South Queensland - 2nd Brisbane team
Newcastle
Central Coast
Canberra
Wollongong
Sydney
West sydney
New Zealand
Team pacific - based in NZ a combined pacific nation team
PNG - this will help the international game

 

[The Great Dane]

I say a real national comp is required for the Nrl.

Teams in the following areas are a must

Melbourne
Perth
Adelaide
Brisbane
Gold Coast
North Queensland
South Queensland - 2nd Brisbane team
Newcastle
Central Coast
Canberra
Wollongong
Sydney
West sydney
New Zealand
Team pacific - based in NZ a combined pacific nation team
PNG - this will help the international game

I like it, though I would make minor changes to the placement of teams and where they represent. Also are you suggesting that we reduce the amount of teams in Sydney to just two or have I misread/misinterpreted your post?

Though I like the idea of the Pacific team I don't think that it is realistic because the people of all of the nations that it would be trying to represent would be turned off by the idea of having to share it with all the others, and for it to be financially feasible they would have to play almost all of their games in NZ, which would mean that they would fail to service the vast majority of the markets that they set out to service or they wouldn't make enough money to cover all their expenses (especially when considering the economies and poverty levels of some of the countries it would be looking to take games to).

Though it's a nice idea I can't see it being realistic, and even if it was feasibly possible it probably wouldn't add as much to the game as a second (and hopefully one day third) team in NZ representing just NZ would add anyway.

Though I think that PNG will eventually get their own team it's a long, long way off and the problems that any PNG bid teams are facing are largely nothing to do with RL it's self which makes them much harder to solve.

Even though Wollongong were shafted and I'd love to see them get a standalone club again I doubt it will ever happen, unless the Dragons move there permanently and they seem to be making moves away from the Gong, and lastly as long as it's a Bears bid the CC is never happening, and even if it wasn't a Bears bid I think it is unlikely to ever happen. Though in saying that I very much hope that the Bears do come back in some form or another.

 

[Perth Red]

I can see a similar,air situation in Gosford as Wollongong with a Sydney team (likely manly) playing 4-5 games there.

Ideally we would see
Perth
Brisbane2
CQ
Adelaide
Png
Wellington
Christchurch/Dunedin

Admitted to NRL over next 35 years. That would be 7 new clubs.
Sorry to bring up the old debate again but I can see a two conference NRL in years to come unless some current clubs move, merge or disappear. I don't think anything over 18 teams in one league is preferrable.

 

[The Great Dane]

I can see a similar,air situation in Gosford as Wollongong with a Sydney team (likely manly) playing 4-5 games there.

Ideally we would see
Perth
Brisbane2
CQ
Adelaide
Png
Wellington
Christchurch/Dunedin

Admitted to NRL over next 35 years. That would be 7 new clubs.

I honestly think that it is very unlikely that CQ will get a team within the next 35 years, which is unfortunate because like the Gong, the CC and the innumerable other ares in country NSW and Queensland, there are no other areas in the world (apart from maybe PNG) where the fans are so passionate about their RL, even when the powers that be ignore them, and so good to the game for such a long time, even when the game doesn't deserve it, that are more deserving of their own teams in the NRL that will (in most cases) never get them.

IMO it is much more likely that we will see a second team in Melbourne then it is we will see a team in CQ, everything comes down to the all mighty dollar and in many, many ways if it is ever feasible a second team in Melbourne would be more lucrative then a in CQ (or for that matter any of the other afour mentioned areas) could ever hope to be.

Sorry to bring up the old debate again but I can see a two conference NRL in years to come unless some current clubs move, merge or disappear. I don't think anything over 18 teams in one league is preferrable.

Well eventually it will get to the point where the format of the competition will have to change to support extra teams if the NRL wishes to continue to expand.

 

[bobmar28]

I say a real national comp is required for the Nrl.

Teams in the following areas are a must

Melbourne
Perth
Adelaide
Brisbane
Gold Coast
North Queensland
South Queensland - 2nd Brisbane team
Newcastle
Central Coast
Canberra
Wollongong
Sydney
West sydney
New Zealand
Team pacific - based in NZ a combined pacific nation team
PNG - this will help the international game

Maybe three teams for Sydney.

 

[Canard]

I would expect Perth to be included 1st and then PNG.

PNG appear to be getting their corpoarte support together and their stadium will be ready by 2015. If included I would expect a major upgrade to the televsion deal from PNG. I believe it is the best for international RL for this to happen.

Putting aside the major social and infrastructure issues PNG have.

The TV deal wouldn't be worth virtually anything in comparison to Australian and NZ deals, similary with gate receipts and memberships. This will be the main stumbling block and the reason it won't occur for quite some time.

 

[Sparky 74]

Yes a 3rd sydney team seems to fit better I think with all the clubs in sydney we have.

In a perfect Nrl would the relocation of teams would be the way to go.

Northern sea eagles - based in the central coast - should of would of could of worked .
West coast reds - return of the reds to Perth
Adelaide sharks - sharks relocate to Adelaide
St George Illawarra - relocated to Wollongong full time
South Queensland crushers - 2nd Brisbane team
Western sydney panthers - west tigers & panthers merge
Southern jets - bring back the jets & merge with souths
Sydney bulldogs - merge dogs & roosters
Brisbane broncos
Gold Coast titans
North Queensland cowboys
Canberra raiders
Newcastle knights
Melbourne storm
Auckland warriors
Wellington

 

[Perth Red]

Putting aside the major social and infrastructure issues PNG have.

The TV deal wouldn't be worth virtually anything in comparison to Australian and NZ deals, similary with gate receipts and memberships. This will be the main stumbling block and the reason it won't occur for quite some time.

Depends on how valuable the NRL considers developing the game in png beyond just a direct value to TV deal.

They have raised $3mill to run a qland cup team. You would think an NRL team would attract more sponsors, merchandise sales etc than that, throw in the $7mill NRL grant and the game expansion grant the Storm are getting and they would have a revenue in excess of some existing clubs. Where there is a will there a way.

 

[beave]

Yes a 3rd sydney team seems to fit better I think with all the clubs in sydney we have.

In a perfect Nrl would the relocation of teams would be the way to go.

Northern sea eagles - based in the central coast - should of would of could of worked .
West coast reds - return of the reds to Perth
Adelaide sharks - sharks relocate to Adelaide
St George Illawarra - relocated to Wollongong full time
South Queensland crushers - 2nd Brisbane team
Western sydney panthers - west tigers & panthers merge
Southern jets - bring back the jets & merge with souths
Sydney bulldogs - merge dogs & roosters
Brisbane broncos
Gold Coast titans
North Queensland cowboys
Canberra raiders
Newcastle knights
Melbourne storm
Auckland warriors
Wellington

 

[Canard]

Depends on how valuable the NRL considers developing the game in png beyond just a direct value to TV deal.

They have raised $3mill to run a qland cup team. You would think an NRL team would attract more sponsors, merchandise sales etc than that, throw in the $7mill NRL grant and the game expansion grant the Storm are getting and they would have a revenue in excess of some existing clubs. Where there is a will there a way.

How many new guinea's are going to afford a $160 for a jersey or more than $1 for Ticket to a match?.

The Storm add to the games TV revenue, unfortunately a team in New Guinea doesn't.

I don't want to be negative but let's be realists, can you see the clubs voting to admit a team that would have to be subsided from day 1? And not add to games revenue?

To suggest they are in the top 2 slots for expansion is laughably niave.