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NRL faces major turmoil as clubs threaten breakaway league

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
Few points here

St Merge were impacted by a St George LC that was struggling. But that wasn't something that happened overnight. Its been a steady decline. Something that they should have anticipated. But they shouldn't be expecting the NRL to fill the void

Clubs aren't crying out for 130% of salary cap - you will find they really want $20mil on todays $7 mil salary cap

If they can find money they will find a way to spend it

Eg the CC Mariners charge every junior $70 just to register in their district while they create a Taj Mahal at Tuggerah. Something we don't do in RL

And finally on Grants 130% promise. The clubs chose to not sign the agreement. So the ARLC took it off the table.

As far as I am aware the mariners have zero to do with the running of soccer on the coast which is handled by a separate body Ccfootball.

The article showing the clubs increased spend on football department fat beyond the increases in grants is shocking. they need to be reigned in and direct more effort into driving up attendances as an example.

Honestly the NRL needs a total reset. if they are determined to have a 16 team league for the foreseeable future, then put all 16 licences up for grabs now and see how the likes of new sides in Brisbane, NZ, perth, Central Coast etc... stack up in terms of their business plans compared to many of the current mob.
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
The Nrl needs to take the salary cap away from the Clubs. Then all the clubs have to do is worry about increasing revenue to pay for the football department.

This could be done by a Nrl appointed Club Salary Cap officer. Job is to pay players, liaise with club about TP deals and other related jobs.

Then Clubs can then approach the Nrl every year with a plan on why, how and where to direct the Clubs grant. Centre of Excellence and some football dept spend should be excluded.

I know it seems far fetched and maybe I'm giving them too much credit but publicly or privately they should discuss/notify other clubs of there total football department spend. this could help clubs keep a lid on it with there piers.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,761
As far as I am aware the mariners have zero to do with the running of soccer on the coast which is handled by a separate body Ccfootball.

The article showing the clubs increased spend on football department fat beyond the increases in grants is shocking. they need to be reigned in and direct more effort into driving up attendances as an example.

Honestly the NRL needs a total reset. if they are determined to have a 16 team league for the foreseeable future, then put all 16 licences up for grabs now and see how the likes of new sides in Brisbane, NZ, perth, Central Coast etc... stack up in terms of their business plans compared to many of the current mob.

Maybe CCFootball run the CC Soccer but my sons $200 rego fees go out of their way to explain how much the CCM and Socceroos takeout

Imagine if a NRL club, SOO and Kangaroos asked every junior in their district to pay $X on top of their regular rego costs. Rather than having local LCs contribute

But what I am trying to highlight that there are other ways to increase revenue

Or pay for junior operations.

Soccer or bush football don't rely on grants, parents usually pay to play. Soccer Rep team registrations can be like $2000. Or you pay $150 for a guest player coaching clinic. Soccer is at the extreme end but highlights how they survive in a low grant environment
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...s/news-story/78c068ce9238546712ae1ad3549452fd

John Grant is likely to be ousted as ARLC Chairman before Christmas
78c068ce9238546712ae1ad3549452fd

Phil Rothfield, The Daily Telegraph
December 2, 2016 5:04pm

78c068ce9238546712ae1ad3549452fd

JOHN Grant will be gone as chairman of the rugby league independent commission chairman before Christmas. And that is all-but official.

The NRL has received 15 proxy votes (only 14 were required) from the clubs and the NSW Rugby League to remove Grant as a result of a revolt over funding talks.

Only the NRL owned Gold Coast Titans and Newcastle Knights along with the QRL did not support the motion of no confidence.

Under the constitution the clubs now have enough votes to remove Grant as the chairman.

Still, a spokesman for the NRL said the focus remained on coming to an agreement with the clubs.

He said the proxies could be withdrawn or superseded if a resolution was reached before the December 20 meeting.

“The best way of resolving this matter is by everyone getting around a table and working on the best outcome for the clubs and the whole of game,” the spokesman said.

The clubs are remaining firm and refuse to meet with the NRL while Grant is in charge.

“He should do the right thing and stand down not that the votes are in,” said one chairman.

“He is only delaying the process until December 20.

“We can only resume talks before Christmas if he is not part of them.”
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...s/news-story/78c068ce9238546712ae1ad3549452fd

John Grant is likely to be ousted as ARLC Chairman before Christmas
78c068ce9238546712ae1ad3549452fd

Phil Rothfield, The Daily Telegraph
December 2, 2016 5:04pm

78c068ce9238546712ae1ad3549452fd

JOHN Grant will be gone as chairman of the rugby league independent commission chairman before Christmas. And that is all-but official.

The NRL has received 15 proxy votes (only 14 were required) from the clubs and the NSW Rugby League to remove Grant as a result of a revolt over funding talks.

Only the NRL owned Gold Coast Titans and Newcastle Knights along with the QRL did not support the motion of no confidence.

Under the constitution the clubs now have enough votes to remove Grant as the chairman.

Still, a spokesman for the NRL said the focus remained on coming to an agreement with the clubs.

He said the proxies could be withdrawn or superseded if a resolution was reached before the December 20 meeting.

“The best way of resolving this matter is by everyone getting around a table and working on the best outcome for the clubs and the whole of game,” the spokesman said.

The clubs are remaining firm and refuse to meet with the NRL while Grant is in charge.

“He should do the right thing and stand down not that the votes are in,” said one chairman.

“He is only delaying the process until December 20.

“We can only resume talks before Christmas if he is not part of them.”

If Buzz said it, it must be true. And the clubs want more say?

It will be a shame if they do get rid of him. Hopefully the commission with or without grant can stick to there guns and not let the clubs and there media dept dictate the lay of the land to them.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
If Buzz said it, it must be true. And the clubs want more say?

It will be a shame if they do get rid of him. Hopefully the commission with or without grant can stick to there guns and not let the clubs and there media dept dictate the lay of the land to them.

piss off, John
 

ashton

Juniors
Messages
1,223
I feel a review of clubs reporting is needed. Currently clubs by there nature have no benefit of showing a yearly profit. (Bar Broncs who have shareholders, and surprise they have a profit.)

Now clubs who are run by leagues clubs are now all run at arms distance. Now that's fine...they've been Doing it for a fair while now.
But most keep these details hidden amongst the larger leagues club financials or simply don't publically report it. And here is the issue. The spending doesn't get audited or at least to the public.

Now panthers are one of very few that have reported 2015 financials. They had a Nrl club revenue of approx $25mil down $1 mil from 2014. $7.5+ mil was the Nrl Grant and $4.5 mil of interest and other related income. $12mil was revenue from gate, merchandise, catering etc.
They made a loss of $1.92 mil last year. (So spent $27mil.)
Now would it be wise to spend more than that for the 2016 year? Well yes they have. Reported to be over $5 mil loss. They have said there fine with that due to the cost of C of E and their grassroots program. Well then don't complain you are not given enough?

The Penrith leagues club revenue was $127 mil. The same leagues club that uses the Nrls brand, marketing and profits off the back of that and yet didn't give any Grant to the Nrl panthers club. This is also the issue.

Most clubs are doing this. Now I'm not trying to bash Penrith, they seem the only ones will to be transparent. It seems the more money the clubs get from the Nrl the less money they get from their leagues clubs. Is that fair?

When it's reported in the media of all the Sydney clubs are suffering a $35+mil loss the Nrl admin gets the blame. Why is that when a club chooses to spend that money. Work that out.

Private ownership is different but the same. They normally just care more about the football. Spend more on football deptartments or a just happy to write off a business loss on there tax return.

Neither system helps promote Profitable clubs.

Clubs don't like being told what to spend "there" money on and I can accept that. But when it comes to the Nrl Grant money there has to be KPIs.

I feel happier if every year the salary cap was covered and the extra agreed Grant money was then given to each club upon them putting a business case forward.

You are totally wrong about Penrith finances they get their income through another company.You know SFA.....this post should be deleted.
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
You are totally wrong about Penrith finances they get their income through another company.You know SFA.....this post should be deleted.

you need to calm down a bit and have cuppa tea.

my info came directly from the penrith leagues club and nrl clubs annual reports 2015. google it and look for yourself. I've only stated what the numbers were in that report.

If you are right and they just haven't disclosed it in the annual report and other shelf companies pay money to the club or not it backs up my point, that it should be more transparent to the nrl.
 

ashton

Juniors
Messages
1,223
The leagues club pick up any short fall from the football club each year......and the leagues club still made a profit last year and have made a profit for this year......therefore you are wrong.
 

ashton

Juniors
Messages
1,223
you need to calm down a bit and have cuppa tea.

my info came directly from the penrith leagues club and nrl clubs annual reports 2015. google it and look for yourself. I've only stated what the numbers were in that report.

If you are right and they just haven't disclosed it in the annual report and other shelf companies pay money to the club or not it backs up my point, that it should be more transparent to the nrl.
Well I just read the financial report for 2015.......Penrith leagues made a profit of $1.826 million after the football club grant was taken out. So you are wrong.......something else you failed to mention they have $156 million in retain equities. So you should delete your post.
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
I realise the leagues club covers the loss. they would be covering it this year as well as its been reported in the media that they lost over $5 mil. parramatta lost $11+ mil but we both know the club picks up the tab. the Tab always gets paid. The more nrl gives in grants without KPI the less the leagues club pays.

The clubs report it to the media that they are making a loss, which we both know isn't the actually truth because the leagues club picks up the tab. although it does suit there agenda to cry poor. hmmm

The nrl needs to force clubs to report football club spending.
 

insert.pause

First Grade
Messages
6,461
Rugby league may be dominant in only NSW and Queensland but its State of Origin and NRL grand final are always in the top 10 highest-rating TV shows of the year. It is only behind AFL and cricket in terms of TV and crowd numbers, meaning Grant would be a substantial scalp.

Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/sport/j...gby-league-life-20161130-gt0vsv#ixzz4RgQX0Gnp
Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook

Or Rugby League is the dominant code in half the country.... apparently we are behind cricket on tv, despite rating equal if not better than afl..
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
Well I just read the financial report for 2015.......Penrith leagues made a profit of $1.826 million after the football club grant was taken out. So you are wrong.......something else you failed to mention they have $156 million in retain equities. So you should delete your post.

Didn't have the tea i guess.

did you read the second annual report there champ? Cant see in the financials where it has grant from leagues club?

maybe you need to re-read my post/s. I was talking about the penrith Nrl club spending budget not the almighty penrith leagues clubs.

oh and can you please remove your last post because you are wrong! did the football club give the penrith leagues a grant???? delete your post. lol
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,761
I realise the leagues club covers the loss. they would be covering it this year as well as its been reported in the media that they lost over $5 mil. parramatta lost $11+ mil but we both know the club picks up the tab. the Tab always gets paid. The more nrl gives in grants without KPI the less the leagues club pays.

The clubs report it to the media that they are making a loss, which we both know isn't the actually truth because the leagues club picks up the tab. although it does suit there agenda to cry poor. hmmm

The nrl needs to force clubs to report football club spending.

You will find that FC don't report it as a loss

LC ask them identify any shortfall before they issue their LC grant. Papers get hold of this and consider it a loss

After this received the FC completes it annual finacial report. That it must do and submit as part of Australian law.

This final financial position is what should be reported

If a FC makes a profit it must pay tax

Thus most FCs run in a break even mentality when they have a LC

They have never been a profit style company

They may establish a equity base in case of lean years and thats all

Maybe if clubs owned their sporting venues , like EPL teams do, things may have been different
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,761
SMH

The move to axe ARLC chairman John Grant is short-sighted



Grant confident he won't be voted out

If I owned a company, my employees would love me.
They'd have huge pictures of me up the walls and in their home.
Like Lenin.


My words these aren't; rather the cogitations of that important 20th century Italian-American philosopher George Costanza, Lord of the Idiots.

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From a distance and in the right light, the under-fire ARL Commission chairman John Grant bears an uncanny resemblance to the Russian communist revolutionary, Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov. Grant might pass for Lenin reincarnated – should he ever resolve to faithfully sculpt his beard in the Van Dyke style.

Chairman Grant's portrait, however, won't ever hang anywhere in the offices of those who might control his destiny in the sport; Grant's anything but loved. Put simply, John Grant's a dead man walking. Rugby league in Australia is a sport that thrives on hate – as distinct from surviving, despite the omnipresence of it.

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Yet the fact Grant is unloved must not matter, one iota. His role doesn't demand he be collectively embraced, or even liked. To the contrary, the exquisitely difficult role that Grant has occupied since the Commission's inception in February 2012 commands that Grant remain markedly distant, lest he be infected with the desires of the game's feudal warlords.

The very contention, that jettisoning John Grant from his role as chairman of the "independent" ARL Commission is the catholicon to all monetary problems in the sport, is the biggest truckload of unadulterated rubbish I've heard in a long time. It astounds me that anyone could actually believe that removing one director from an eight-person board would cause a violent shift in the strategy of the remaining seven.

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Under pressure: ARLC chairman John Grant. Photo: Christopher Pearce
The Oxford Dictionary defines "independent" to variously mean not depending on authority or control; self-governing. Though the Commission is self-governing under its present structure, it's anything but beyond the authority or control of others.

That the much-vaunted "independent" commission was ever so described, in the three years before its eventual implementation in 2012, is grossly misleading. Apply the blowtorch, and the fragility of this "independence" is patent. Any independence depends on the Commission's members remaining unable to agree on things more complex than the general point on the horizon over which the sun rises each morning. If the Commission's members reach a consensus, the governance structure is easily bulldozed.

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Vladimir Lenin: Squint and you'll see the resemblance. Photo: Fairfax Media
To the general meeting of the ARL Commission called to "test support" for Grant (adopting the Commission's anodyne language) scheduled for just over two weeks' time, it's no certainty as to what will happen. Under the Commission's constitution, any director can be removed by a simple majority of its voting members, of which there are 26 comprising the eight directors; the 16 NRL clubs; and the NSW and Queensland State leagues. These simple majority provisions reflect the immutable requirements of section 203D of the Corporations Act, and the rights it granted to members of public companies like the Commission.

That the directors are Commission members at all is because the architects of the Commission rightly envisaged this revolt would materialise, some day. Making the directors voting members directly dilutes the voting power of the clubs and state bodies. A simple majority of 14 votes could comprise that many clubs, or 13 clubs and the NSWRL. Without the directors as members, only 10 votes would be needed.

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Illustration: Simon Letch
Such votes take place by the "ol' show of hands" method, unless a secret poll is demanded by at least two of the 26 voters, or the chairman. A secret ballot would make it easier for the ARL-owned Newcastle Knights and Gold Coast Titans – or even the Grant-aligned QRL – to vote unhindered. Remember, it means nothing that these bodies might not have signed the notices calling for the meeting.

The Commission's constitution also includes an alternative mechanism for removing directors, empowering any 10 clubs plus both state governing bodies to vote as a bloc – meaning a minority of members could override the wishes of the majority. This clause is moot however, if the QRL abstains or refuses to spear Grant.

The immediate power to select any replacement director, should Grant be removed, lies with the seven directors he'd leave behind; not rugby league's disgruntled chairpersons. And for those who might be wondering, there's a safeguard in the constitution stopping the forced removal of all eight directors at once, so the members could appoint more malleable replacements. The likes of David Gyngell don't fail the test of director "independence" in the constitution, but he'd inevitably need to resign from any conflicting directorships or consultancies. But whomever the replacement director is won't be chairman – such an appointment is for the Commission's board to make.

Exploding the Commission's constitutional model and starting again is a more overwhelming task. At a bare minimum, all bar one of the clubs AND both state leagues must vote in favour of any change. Grant commissioning a review is rather pointless – the clubs won't accept a model they don't themselves conjure.

Pausing there, it's imperative to note the constitutional objectives of the ARL Commission are to (a) act as the controlling administrator of rugby league in Australia; and (b) to foster, develop, extend and provide adequate funding for the whole of the sport, from the junior to elite levels, in the best interests of rugby league. This includes – but is not overridden by – obligations regarding the NRL competition.

The governance model of the ARL Commission was bastardised from the outset, just as a Rembrandt might be damaged if embellished by five-year-old with ready access to finger paints. The elemental flaw in the Commission's structure is that the 16 NRL clubs and the state leagues are members at all. They are so because too many stakeholders were given a say in structuring the governing body.

In a perfect world, the ARL Commission would be structured so that its only "members" were its directors, for so long as they each remained in office. The interests of the clubs and state bodies should be enshrined in licence agreements, just as the Country Rugby League has a contractual arrangement with the Commission. Anything less isn't independence.

Had the Commission been structured as such, it would've been impervious to the tactics that will likely result in Grant being shafted. Grant and his board are decent people, attempting to deliver a strategy for the whole game; beyond the elite competition. That voting stakeholders are moving to off Grant is short-sighted.

There's a lever arch folder in my office. Running down its spine is an old Winfield Cup sticker circa 1995. Its caption reads "THE ARL MUST RUN THE GAME". A generation after the Super League War this straightforward notion remains as important as it was, 21 years ago.

Darren Kane is a Sydney lawyer. He acted for a number of parties in relation to the formation of the ARL Commission between 2010 and 2012.
 
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14,816
Rugby league may be dominant in only NSW and Queensland but its State of Origin and NRL grand final are always in the top 10 highest-rating TV shows of the year. It is only behind AFL and cricket in terms of TV and crowd numbers, meaning Grant would be a substantial scalp.

Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/sport/j...gby-league-life-20161130-gt0vsv#ixzz4RgQX0Gnp
Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook

Or Rugby League is the dominant code in half the country.... apparently we are behind cricket on tv, despite rating equal if not better than afl..
We are well ahead of fumbleball and Cricket with TV ratings
 

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