What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

NRL faces major turmoil as clubs threaten breakaway league

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,890
The problem.is it restricts clubs from growing

Lets say a club builds a nest egg and pays $9mil for a center of excellence ir buys real estate to house the admin staff to save on rent

Where does that sit ?

Centres of excellence are a total waste of money and don't add a single thing to the game.
The clubs are talking centre of excellence in order to keep up with other clubs - better idea is just ban them. They are where the wastage happens.
The way you ban them is to say you have a $5mill (or whatever) cap on your football club expenditure.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,765
I think your comments here explain why your earlier statement about dropping clubs out of the league won't happen...

The Storm could be indefinitely broke and never get punted, and to be honest I don't believe they should- too many $$$ have been thrown down that pit already, and I think the results with crowds and ratings are improving...

I guess this depends on how we manage allowances

And which types should the NRL directly fund

Travel is a important one for regional teams

While another could be growing their junior structure in a new market for X years or until they have established 2000 junior players

How we address facilities management will be a interesting discussion
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,765
wasn't it a centre of excellence that sent the GC broke 5 years ago.

Yes

Building a stadium in Gosford sent Norths broke

Trying to prop up a LC caused Souths major drama and sent Balmain bust

Even the Broncos abandoned their LC after it went into Administration

Facilities seem to cause the biggest issues bar Tinkler
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,890
If average club football department expenditure was $1.8m in 2012 and went up to $6m in 2015 would this have all just been wage inflation (fighting over the best coaching staff) or have they found new wiz bang things to spend the money on - like training bras and cameras?
 

Noname36

First Grade
Messages
7,067
It has taken some serious managerial ineptitude to get into trouble with the Knights. This is a club who can not only pull 15,000 when they haven't won a game in the last 15, but their crowd will think they are going to win. And even when they lose by 30, the crowd are back next time.

All Newcastle need is a decent football manager. One who can make the correct decisions in recruitment and retention, including not paying huge overs for unproven players. A Phil Gould is what they need, but he is also needed elsewhere.

You're clearly not a Knights fan. I can't think of one person I've seen at a game in the past 4 years that thought they were going to win. Most just show up anyway - hence the consistently good crowds. Problem is there is a fairly decent portion of Knights fans (not a majority but still a very vocal percentage that couldn't care less whether the club is actually successful or not. As long as it exists and they can go to the footy on Sunday afternoon they're happy and the NRL know it too and it's easy for the justification of the shoe string budget.

I kind of laugh when I read people whinging that the NRL are "throwing money" into the Knights when with how utterly cheaply the club is being run at the moment the Knights could probably fund themselves at the moment and not even turn too much of a loss.

I think we also need to accept that the days of tickets and memberships bringing in any significant revenue needed in the new game are long over. Sure the Knights might get a lot of people through the gates but with how much a club needs to spend these days to even go close to competing you've got to have money coming from other sources.

The Knights don't need a Gould. Darren Mooney seems to be doing a terrific job as football manager. What they need is a genuine form of revenue that will cut it in the NRL. Yes they've had years of some management incompetence too but no money generally buys shitty administrators. It's a circle.
 
Last edited:

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
sounds like Gus wants Turdles gone too

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...rant-and-dont-stop-there-20161203-gt3dud.html

Sack John Grant and don't stop there
Phil Gould

People have jumped on a statement I made during the week when I said, "I'm not sure sacking John Grant will solve the issue", as me being supportive of his recent actions and suggesting I think he should stay on as Australian Rugby League Commission chairman.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

John Grant has to go.

He has presided over an NRL management team and administration that has created this financial mess and the damage this has done to the relationship with 16 NRL clubs. We now have this highly embarrassing situation where the clubs are forced to come together to remove the chairman of our game.

I can assure you such decisions are not made lightly. Right now 16 NRL clubs (forget that Gold Coast and Newcastle abstained from the vote) are absolutely united in the fact the NRL chairman's treatment of the clubs in a meeting two weeks ago was totally out of line and the attempts by the commission to renege on a memorandum of understanding signed 12 months ago will not be tolerated.

The clubs have rightly acted with the only power they possess under the present constitution and that is to vote to remove the commission chairman from his position. I agree 100 percent with their stance. I will go further to say that whenever I've been asked by NRL club chairmen for my opinion, I have said Grant has to go. It's not a personal attack on him, but as chairman we all believe he has to be held accountable.

Furthermore, the MoU on club funding that was agreed to and signed by the commission 12 months ago has to be honoured. That is non-negotiable.

The point I was trying to make in the brief radio interview I did this week, without wanting to create headlines or add any extra pressure to an already tense situation, is that the problem with the NRL does not stop with the chairman.

It is also a futile endeavour for NRL management to try and sway a couple of clubs to backflip on their decision and vote with Grant to retain his position. This would not be a win for Grant and it certainly would not be a win for the game.

But I will say again, removing Grant doesn't necessarily solve the funding issue with the clubs, especially if the other commissioners are still being influenced by the same people in senior management positions at the NRL.

Grant is going. That has been made loud and clear by the clubs. But that should not be the end of it.

Commissioners take their advice from the NRL chief executive and his management team. It's these people who make the policy and financial recommendations to the commissioners. These are the people who have placed the game in this financial dilemma, as well as recommending other programs and philosophies that I believe are potentially damaging to the future of our game. More on this another time.

The problems with funding the game and the frustrating relationship between the clubs and NRL management is not a recent phenomenon.

We have been trying to tell the NRL for at least three years they were heading down a dangerous path. Nothing about the current mess surprises me in the least.

The rapid and significant growth in size and cost of the NRL administration under former chief executive Dave Smith was irresponsible. It was always going to create financial problems for the game in the future. Even more important has been the creation of a culture within the NRL that the NRL owns everything and the 16 NRL clubs are merely suppliers of their product.

The big problem comes in the NRL's attitude towards the clubs.

It would appear that every time there is a shortfall of funding, the first people the NRL tries to screw are the players and clubs.

Even more annoying for the clubs is that the NRL produces media stories to discredit clubs in an attempt to somehow justify its own actions. Members of the NRL management team have also tried to turn the game's senior players against the clubs.

This political "election style" campaigning by the NRL has been extremely damaging to the relationship with the NRL clubs and it has to cease.

There is more than enough money coming into the NRL in 2018 to give the players and clubs what was agreed to in the MoU. The NRL is trying to claw money back from the clubs because it has mismanaged its finances over a number of years.

That's the NRL's problem. It's not the club's problem.

In very simple terms, if the commission was to negotiate a collective bargaining agreement with the players' association for a 2018 salary cap of say $10 million, under the terms of the MoU each NRL club would receive a funding package of 130 per cent of that figure, i.e., $13 million. Multiply $13 million by 16 clubs gives you a total of $208 million.

Given that the total revenue for the game will amount to somewhere between $450 million and $500 million a year, this means the commission will have anywhere from $240 million to $300 million to run the rest of the game. If they can't run the rest of the game on that amount of money and still have plenty left over to save and prepare for the future, then we have the wrong people on the commission and the wrong people in key management positions at the NRL.

The clubs and players are not being unreasonable or greedy here. You can dress it up anyway you like, but it's the NRL clubs and players who put on the show. When the NRL is selling our game to broadcasters and sponsors, it is the game created by the clubs and players they are selling. They are selling the emotion our fans feel for the logos, colours, rivalry and history of our game along with the brilliant talents of our elite players who are developed by the clubs over a long period of time.

The NRL sells the game. The clubs and the players are the game.

We could lock the doors on that building down there at NRL Central and I promise you the game would still go on. The clubs would make it happen.

The clubs and players must come first in any funding model. There is more than enough money left in the bin to service all the other needs and levels of our game throughout the country.

In summary then, the 16 clubs have drawn a line in the sand and said enough is enough. John Grant is now faced with a vote of no confidence and he will be removed.

I agree totally with this stance.

My point is that the problem doesn't end there. More changes are needed to ensure we get the right people working in the right jobs and that the working relationship between clubs and head office is significantly improved.

The future of our game depends on it.

Phil Gould is general manager of Penrith Panthers.
 

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
You're clearly not a Knights fan.
You're right. Panthers for me. But it's amazing how many Knights fans thought they were going to beat us this year. Anyway my main point is that this club can draw a good crowd even when they are at rock bottom, and this makes them as viable as just about anyone.
 

insert.pause

First Grade
Messages
6,462
Gould is a wanker. "More on this another time".

Fancy Gould of all people whinging about the NRL campaigning a message through the media. We hear Gould running agendas every game he calls, and he is not subtle, despite the narssasist probably thinking he's being clever. Even now that it's the off-season and he can't get his head on tv he predictably makes his Twitter account public again so the media can trawl his tweets. Gould and his cronies have been campaigning against the commission & NRL for at least three years, rightly or wrongly, at least own up to it.
 

Diesel

Referee
Messages
23,772
Some of what Gould says is right but he is everything that is wrong with the current management of the NRL/ARLC.
NSW centric, anti-expansion, anti-international and pro-state and club, demands more $ for the clubs, criticises scheduling yet gets paid by 9 and doesn't have an issue with a 8:22 pm KO for Origin because the networks paid for the product
 
Messages
8
If I was a shareholder of the Nrl which the clubs are I'd be demanding they all get the Khyber. If we judge them by their own Kpi's they set for the life of the last broadcast deal they are a complete failure.
Double non broadcast revenue, gone from around 80 million to 125,fail.
Crowds to average 20,000,fail
200 million future fund now sits at around 50 with losses expected to chew it up in the next 2 years,fail
400,000 members, fail.
Participation has fallen,fail.
In reality they have achieved nothing they set out to do.Why would you give these clowns another wad of money when they completely botched the last round of cash.
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
If I was a shareholder of the Nrl which the clubs are I'd be demanding they all get the Khyber. If we judge them by their own Kpi's they set for the life of the last broadcast deal they are a complete failure.
Double non broadcast revenue, gone from around 80 million to 125,fail.
Crowds to average 20,000,fail
200 million future fund now sits at around 50 with losses expected to chew it up in the next 2 years,fail
400,000 members, fail.
Participation has fallen,fail.
In reality they have achieved nothing they set out to do.Why would you give these clowns another wad of money when they completely botched the last round of cash.

But the NRL don't have direct control over those things.

Seriously I dont know how an nrl club in this day and age cant get 20k to a game, given the NRL's popularity.

Members grow 20% year on year looks like and the NRL have been working closely with clubs on this.

Participation has fallen .5%, which is not much. But its a trend, especially if growth has been slowing.

The future fund - the NRL has not touched it iirc and was 80 last time I heard, but because they have been bailing out clubs about 40m/year, they have not really added to it I would think. Won't surprise me if there's nothing left after these greedy clubs try to take it all.

_

If the clubs could sort themselves out, be funded more and also do international, expansion and junior/data growth - would be great. Afterall, I'm pretty sure thats what the ARLC is trying to achieve.

Beats getting bailed out from HQ all the time!
 
Messages
8
What do you mean they have no control of these matters. These are their own Kpi's.They have deemed them in their realm of control. They have failed on every front.And if you read the financial report the future fund is now 52 million with losses expected in the next 2 seasons.If the clubs are all floundering then it's incumbent on the governing body to lay out the path to success but they are too spineless to do this. If they want equality limit the amount of tpp, cap spending and give them enough money to be competitive. Equalise payments to those they punish in the draw and reward teams that do their best with hardly any free to air exposure at all.Put tight restrictions on debt limits and make sure they are all up to speed on modern governance. The commission has been an abject failure. The ideology of an independent commission is sound but unless the best people are in the best positions then it is a hindrance at best.Change the constitution and get blokes like Packer,Gyngell and Politis to run the game.
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,562
People criticise the clubs and now Gould, but can can someone answer the main point he raised...

If the clubs get $208mil per year or $13mil each, then why can't the NRL develop the game and run itself on the reaining $275- $300mil per year?

And once again... The current NRL administration is just as against expanding the NRL at the top level as the clubs are... There are no current plans in the wings, and both Grant and Grrenburg have said they don't support it..
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
What do you mean they have no control of these matters. These are their own Kpi's.They have deemed them in their realm of control. They have failed on every front.And if you read the financial report the future fund is now 52 million with losses expected in the next 2 seasons.If the clubs are all floundering then it's incumbent on the governing body to lay out the path to success but they are too spineless to do this. If they want equality limit the amount of tpp, cap spending and give them enough money to be competitive. Equalise payments to those they punish in the draw and reward teams that do their best with hardly any free to air exposure at all.Put tight restrictions on debt limits and make sure they are all up to speed on modern governance. The commission has been an abject failure. The ideology of an independent commission is sound but unless the best people are in the best positions then it is a hindrance at best.Change the constitution and get blokes like Packer,Gyngell and Politis to run the game.

Well, in that the commission is not physically running every corner of the game, there's ground staff, club chairman, stadia people, trainers, physio's, players, ect. The NRL can't be help directly responsible for all those things they did not meet.

Oh that was always the danger of that fund - that it would be used before it ever got going - blame the clubs for that.

I dont think Politis should be running the game. If only he was at a club like parramatta or something - not to hold him back, but by now I think he would be too bent out of shape to evenly run things. A guy like him is wasted at the roosters. Same thing with Gyngell and Packer, wrong spots to my mind, both could be on the commission.

I dont think the commission is independent enough. AND at the same time (which may surprise you) I think they need a club-non-executive mechanism/body/group elected/whatnot to run beside the ARLC - or that the ARLC can use to go to for consulting. I really do. People may say just talk to the clubs but when talking is difficult they can have an official channel at least.

So we probably agree on more than you think.
 
Last edited:

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
I never did like him as a commentator but my opinion of Gus as an administrator has deteriorated massively with his last few articles and role in this mess. he has shown his true colours clearly as being all about the clubs and not about the game

Imagine this guy as NRL Ceo as was once touted. Very scary thought.
 

Diesel

Referee
Messages
23,772
If Gus was administrator it'd be just NSW sides in the comp on a Sunday arvo and NSW SoO playing Country Origin every Wednesday.
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Jabba is hedging for a shot at the big time and I reckon he should get it . . . make him NRL top dog and let's see if he can lead from in front instead of behind . . . once and for all
 

Latest posts

Top