Big call on RoostersJust amazing - best team of my lifetime, 5 finals in row, 4 wins...
Rightfully Cleary gets a lot of plaudits - but it's more than him, he and Luai are up there with Sterlo and Kenny, and Stuart and Daley as the best clubs halves pairings I've seen (maybe Langer and Walters too, I guess)...
And my pick was their pack was going to dominate, with or without NAS, Yeo is as good as anyone ever at 13, Martin and JFH play much bigger than their size, and Leota is elite and underrated, as is Kenny etc... and look at the talent they've lost in the last few years...
Even without JFH and Luai, they start favourites next year, someone is going to have to beat them in the finals series... and atm Melbourne is the only team close, I'd expect Easts and Cronulla to be top 4 again I guess
Australian squad members.Kyle Flanagan 4 weeks for biting, Munster already cleared with no case to answer
True, on more reflection probably others more likely - the interesting thing is whether AFB can push Cronulla to genuine contender - Hynes obviously still keyBig call on Roosters
Chad Townsend May end up a very astute signing, but some massive holes to fill in that squad. Will be an interesting watch to see how Robinson goes about it
Of course AFB makes them better, although having said that they have a very well functioning pack. Hynes just isn't the guy to pull the strings. It's a tough one. They paid $1m a year for him to play halfback, having never played there. I'd like to see him go back to fullback, but they have Kennedy there and then who plays 7? So he just has to stay there and try to become the player they need him to be.True, on more reflection probably others more likely - the interesting thing is whether AFB can push Cronulla to genuine contender - Hynes obviously still key
Penrith remain the ones to beat, I see Smith now in Kangaroos squad, good player, not JFH but could be that level with time
How do warriors fans feel about Ivan Cleary when he coached you guys.
We have a pain on our forum that argues Ivan was an average coach for his first 13 years.
I argue he was your best coach in your history.
He got you to finals 4 years out of 6 including a GF.
The 2 years he missed out was 2006 when the Salary Cap punishment cost you a finals and 2009 tragically lost Sonny Fai in the off season which took a lot emotionally out of the side.
He beat Bellamy in 2008 and 2011 in finals in Melbourne who finished Minor Premiers.
I would say he overachieved and got more out of your side then any other coach has.
Fair enough but his results show he had a system in place that got results.He was quite a boring coach. Thing is though he was really just an ex player applying basic principles to improve the Warriors which took him several years.
As such the inevitable negatives were that he came in with a one dimensional approach, used lots of tackle bot types to fix the Warriors leaky defence and kick the ball to Manu Vatuvei as the game winner in pretty dour affairs really (when compared to the exciting fast flowing big contact sides Anderson created).
I actually hated a lot of the Ivan era, I felt he was strangling the team. I look back on it more kindly now, knowing that he was dealing with terrible criminal administration/owner who just cared about exploiting merchandise sales from a sucker NZ league public.
Still, Ivan's biggest crimes were stifling the NZ style of second phase and then bringing in two Aussies to do that job instead, both of whom for all their Xfactor were even worse defenders than the Kiwis Ivan put on a leash (Mateo and Inu). That was daft.
Winning a comp is really hard, we might have had a few top 4 opportunitiesFair enough but his results show he had a system in place that got results.
I have a feeling if he stayed you guys would have won a comp.
He certainly seemed from an outsiders point of view to find the perfect mix between a balanced structure and still allowing that flair when reuqired.
I reckon the warriors have had just as talented sides post 2011 as what Ivan had and havent even got close bar last year.
Mate they couldn't even construct backline movements to pass the ball to the most devastating winger in the NRL the beast in space, instead they kicked it to him till they stopped because surprise surprise he couldn't jump anymore (knees with his weight).Fair enough but his results show he had a system in place that got results.
I have a feeling if he stayed you guys would have won a comp.
He certainly seemed from an outsiders point of view to find the perfect mix between a balanced structure and still allowing that flair when reuqired.
I reckon the warriors have had just as talented sides post 2011 as what Ivan had and havent even got close bar last year.
Ivan has quite clearly changed his style and loosened up a lot over the years. Perfect example is when he was coming through was Lewis Brown liking to do the shark fin celebration when he scored. Ivan pulled it aside and told him to knock that on the head. Now he is quite happy for the likes of Luai and Crichton to express themselves.
Yea I agree with this. I think Ando’s style was more entertaining, but Ivan’s was (or would have been) arguably more sustainable. Structure isn't always pretty but its more likely to stand up under pressure as he and Bellamy have shown over a long time now.Fair enough but his results show he had a system in place that got results.
I have a feeling if he stayed you guys would have won a comp.
He certainly seemed from an outsiders point of view to find the perfect mix between a balanced structure and still allowing that flair when reuqired.
I reckon the warriors have had just as talented sides post 2011 as what Ivan had and havent even got close bar last year.
I read somewhere that was the day he earned the nickname "Fk-Witt". Dunno if that's an urban myth or not, but its pretty apt regardless.Despite the euphoria of the 2008 win at Melbourne I reckon the first thing Cleary did was make a beeline for Witt.
Urban myth I thinkI read somewhere that was the day he earned the nickname "Fk-Witt". Dunno if that's an urban myth or not, but its pretty apt regardless.
Really? Ha thats even betterUrban myth I think
Michaels nickname was always “half”, and his brothers Steve’s nickname was “f***”
Ivan has quite clearly changed his style and loosened up a lot over the years. Perfect example is when he was coming through was Lewis Brown liking to do the shark fin celebration when he scored. Ivan pulled him aside and told him to knock that on the head. Now he is quite happy for the likes of Luai and Crichton to express themselves
Is all a bit of crystal ball gazing, who knows how much Ivan would have evolved staying in Auckland, and probably shouldn’t understate the tips and tricks he would have picked up from Gus Gould on his initial move to Penrith.
I'm not quite following the logic... you're saying Ando had the shackles off (which I agree with to an extent) but that Ivan's more conservative coaching approach was influenced by his playing days with us?Ivan banning Inu from the team then saying "he knows what he has done" was just a kick in the nuts to the fans. If you are not going to make a statement that means anything then say nothing. Say no comment. But in those days Ivan was a bit of a Jerk.
He is a completely different guy now his son is playing and he is an NRL Dad. We have to remember he played for the Warriors and formed prejudices about the style and culture of the place from his playing days and this would have very much slanted his view of how to coach the Warriors.
The Warriors will never thrive under a coach that stiffles, Anderson took the shackles off and it was the best this club has ever played in terms of out and out exciting fast aggressive football which is the dna of NZ Rugby league.
Kind of pisses me off to see Ivan encouraging flair and aggression at Penrith.
Good analogy however if you remember Ivan was the defensive lynch pin of that side and was not a ball playing fullback, he rarely passed the ball or chimed in....in attack he was the exception that proves the rule. Which is the point I make which you find troubling. Hope that explains it for you.I'm not quite following the logic... you're saying Ando had the shackles off (which I agree with to an extent) but that Ivan's more conservative coaching approach was influenced by his playing days with us?
But given he played under Ando and made a GF under his 'shackles off' approach, how did that experience shape his early coaching?
I actually hated a lot of the Ivan era, I felt he was strangling the team. I look back on it more kindly now, knowing that he was dealing with terrible criminal administration/owner who just cared about exploiting merchandise sales from a sucker NZ league public.