NRL Finals 2024

[Blair]

Before Penrith start as favourites again next year we should factor in the loss of their humble, well-worn home.

Parramatta Stadium can be a cold, soulless concrete bowl, and that's for Eels fans!

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Just amazing - best team of my lifetime, 5 finals in row, 4 wins...

Rightfully Cleary gets a lot of plaudits - but it's more than him, he and Luai are up there with Sterlo and Kenny, and Stuart and Daley as the best clubs halves pairings I've seen (maybe Langer and Walters too, I guess)...

And my pick was their pack was going to dominate, with or without NAS, Yeo is as good as anyone ever at 13, Martin and JFH play much bigger than their size, and Leota is elite and underrated, as is Kenny etc... and look at the talent they've lost in the last few years...

Even without JFH and Luai, they start favourites next year, someone is going to have to beat them in the finals series... and atm Melbourne is the only team close, I'd expect Easts and Cronulla to be top 4 again I guess

Big call on Roosters

Chad Townsend May end up a very astute signing, but some massive holes to fill in that squad. Will be an interesting watch to see how Robinson goes about it

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Kyle Flanagan 4 weeks for biting, Munster already cleared with no case to answer

Australian squad members.
Kiwi player would get 4 weeks.

 

[JJ]

Big call on Roosters

Chad Townsend May end up a very astute signing, but some massive holes to fill in that squad. Will be an interesting watch to see how Robinson goes about it

True, on more reflection probably others more likely - the interesting thing is whether AFB can push Cronulla to genuine contender - Hynes obviously still key

Penrith remain the ones to beat, I see Smith now in Kangaroos squad, good player, not JFH but could be that level with time

 

[Penrose Warrior]

True, on more reflection probably others more likely - the interesting thing is whether AFB can push Cronulla to genuine contender - Hynes obviously still key

Penrith remain the ones to beat, I see Smith now in Kangaroos squad, good player, not JFH but could be that level with time

Of course AFB makes them better, although having said that they have a very well functioning pack. Hynes just isn't the guy to pull the strings. It's a tough one. They paid $1m a year for him to play halfback, having never played there. I'd like to see him go back to fullback, but they have Kennedy there and then who plays 7? So he just has to stay there and try to become the player they need him to be.

I think the Sharks can make a GF next year, but there's just not any sides in this comp that can match it with the Storm and Panthers when it counts. Brisbane may very well become that next year under Madge.

The Roosters could be there too, if they keep key players fit they have a lot of big names. Again, do they have the style to win a 14-6 GF over this year's big two? I doubt it, but they'll need to figure out how to do that. All well and good having the best attack in the comp and scoring 700+ points by demolishing average teams (and fans love it) but that's not the style that will win a premiership.

 

[sup42]

How do warriors fans feel about Ivan Cleary when he coached you guys.

We have a pain on our forum that argues Ivan was an average coach for his first 13 years.

I argue he was your best coach in your history.

He got you to finals 4 years out of 6 including a GF.

The 2 years he missed out was 2006 when the Salary Cap punishment cost you a finals and 2009 tragically lost Sonny Fai in the off season which took a lot emotionally out of the side.

He beat Bellamy in 2008 and 2011 in finals in Melbourne who finished Minor Premiers.

I would say he overachieved and got more out of your side then any other coach has.

He was quite a boring coach. Thing is though he was really just an ex player applying basic principles to improve the Warriors which took him several years.

As such the inevitable negatives were that he came in with a one dimensional approach, used lots of tackle bot types to fix the Warriors leaky defence and kick the ball to Manu Vatuvei as the game winner in pretty dour affairs really (when compared to the exciting fast flowing big contact sides Anderson created).

I actually hated a lot of the Ivan era, I felt he was strangling the team. I look back on it more kindly now, knowing that he was dealing with terrible criminal administration/owner who just cared about exploiting merchandise sales from a sucker NZ league public.

Still, Ivan's biggest crimes were stifling the NZ style of second phase and then bringing in two Aussies to do that job instead, both of whom for all their Xfactor were even worse defenders than the Kiwis Ivan put on a leash (Mateo and Inu). That was daft.

 

[King-Gutho94]

He was quite a boring coach. Thing is though he was really just an ex player applying basic principles to improve the Warriors which took him several years.

As such the inevitable negatives were that he came in with a one dimensional approach, used lots of tackle bot types to fix the Warriors leaky defence and kick the ball to Manu Vatuvei as the game winner in pretty dour affairs really (when compared to the exciting fast flowing big contact sides Anderson created).

I actually hated a lot of the Ivan era, I felt he was strangling the team. I look back on it more kindly now, knowing that he was dealing with terrible criminal administration/owner who just cared about exploiting merchandise sales from a sucker NZ league public.

Still, Ivan's biggest crimes were stifling the NZ style of second phase and then bringing in two Aussies to do that job instead, both of whom for all their Xfactor were even worse defenders than the Kiwis Ivan put on a leash (Mateo and Inu). That was daft.

Fair enough but his results show he had a system in place that got results.

I have a feeling if he stayed you guys would have won a comp.

He certainly seemed from an outsiders point of view to find the perfect mix between a balanced structure and still allowing that flair when reuqired.

I reckon the warriors have had just as talented sides post 2011 as what Ivan had and havent even got close bar last year.

 

[JJ]

Fair enough but his results show he had a system in place that got results.

I have a feeling if he stayed you guys would have won a comp.

He certainly seemed from an outsiders point of view to find the perfect mix between a balanced structure and still allowing that flair when reuqired.

I reckon the warriors have had just as talented sides post 2011 as what Ivan had and havent even got close bar last year.

Winning a comp is really hard, we might have had a few top 4 opportunities

 

[sup42]

Fair enough but his results show he had a system in place that got results.

I have a feeling if he stayed you guys would have won a comp.

He certainly seemed from an outsiders point of view to find the perfect mix between a balanced structure and still allowing that flair when reuqired.

I reckon the warriors have had just as talented sides post 2011 as what Ivan had and havent even got close bar last year.

Mate they couldn't even construct backline movements to pass the ball to the most devastating winger in the NRL the beast in space, instead they kicked it to him till they stopped because surprise surprise he couldn't jump anymore (knees with his weight).

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Ivan has quite clearly changed his style and loosened up a lot over the years. Perfect example is when he was coming through was Lewis Brown liking to do the shark fin celebration when he scored. Ivan pulled him aside and told him to knock that on the head. Now he is quite happy for the likes of Luai and Crichton to express themselves

Is all a bit of crystal ball gazing, who knows how much Ivan would have evolved staying in Auckland, and probably shouldn’t understate the tips and tricks he would have picked up from Gus Gould on his initial move to Penrith.

 

[Blair]

Ivan has quite clearly changed his style and loosened up a lot over the years. Perfect example is when he was coming through was Lewis Brown liking to do the shark fin celebration when he scored. Ivan pulled it aside and told him to knock that on the head. Now he is quite happy for the likes of Luai and Crichton to express themselves.

Despite the euphoria of the 2008 win at Melbourne I reckon the first thing Cleary did was make a beeline for Witt.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Fair enough but his results show he had a system in place that got results.

I have a feeling if he stayed you guys would have won a comp.

He certainly seemed from an outsiders point of view to find the perfect mix between a balanced structure and still allowing that flair when reuqired.

I reckon the warriors have had just as talented sides post 2011 as what Ivan had and havent even got close bar last year.

Yea I agree with this. I think Ando’s style was more entertaining, but Ivan’s was (or would have been) arguably more sustainable. Structure isn't always pretty but its more likely to stand up under pressure as he and Bellamy have shown over a long time now.

And it wasn’t just on the pitch for Ivan either, he had a really good relationship with John Ackland at a time when the NYC team was flying along.

Having 3 teams playing on GF day in 2011 showed how well run the club was at the time and I think the working relationships between Ivan, Ackland and John Hart played a big role.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Despite the euphoria of the 2008 win at Melbourne I reckon the first thing Cleary did was make a beeline for Witt.

I read somewhere that was the day he earned the nickname "Fk-Witt". Dunno if that's an urban myth or not, but its pretty apt regardless.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

I read somewhere that was the day he earned the nickname "Fk-Witt". Dunno if that's an urban myth or not, but its pretty apt regardless.

Urban myth I think

Michaels nickname was always “half”, and his brothers Steve’s nickname was “f***”

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Urban myth I think

Michaels nickname was always “half”, and his brothers Steve’s nickname was “f***”

Really? Ha thats even better

 

[sup42]

Ivan has quite clearly changed his style and loosened up a lot over the years. Perfect example is when he was coming through was Lewis Brown liking to do the shark fin celebration when he scored. Ivan pulled him aside and told him to knock that on the head. Now he is quite happy for the likes of Luai and Crichton to express themselves

Is all a bit of crystal ball gazing, who knows how much Ivan would have evolved staying in Auckland, and probably shouldn’t understate the tips and tricks he would have picked up from Gus Gould on his initial move to Penrith.

Ivan banning Inu from the team then saying "he knows what he has done" was just a kick in the nuts to the fans. If you are not going to make a statement that means anything then say nothing. Say no comment. But in those days Ivan was a bit of a Jerk.

He is a completely different guy now his son is playing and he is an NRL Dad. We have to remember he played for the Warriors and formed prejudices about the style and culture of the place from his playing days and this would have very much slanted his view of how to coach the Warriors.

The Warriors will never thrive under a coach that stiffles, Anderson took the shackles off and it was the best this club has ever played in terms of out and out exciting fast aggressive football which is the dna of NZ Rugby league.

Kind of pisses me off to see Ivan encouraging flair and aggression at Penrith for the same reasons Warriors fans were pissed off at Webster for over controlling the game plan when it was obvious that we started winning with noobs and flair.

Webster is trying to bring the fundamentals of Penrith here and he wants the template stuff perfect before he lets them play Penrith flair, that much is obvious to me. And therefore the fans need to be patient.

Time and again in the GF the Panthers kicked then did not contest the kick, they smothered the catcher off a great kick chase, this single play killed the Storm. Yet Warriors fans are still in yesteryear crying about us not contesting kicks.

Get with the program there is nothing wrong with Websters game plan it is the Panthers game plan the issue is it will take some years to train the staff in delivering it. Then Webster can let them play off the cuff.....like Penrith.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Ivan banning Inu from the team then saying "he knows what he has done" was just a kick in the nuts to the fans. If you are not going to make a statement that means anything then say nothing. Say no comment. But in those days Ivan was a bit of a Jerk.

He is a completely different guy now his son is playing and he is an NRL Dad. We have to remember he played for the Warriors and formed prejudices about the style and culture of the place from his playing days and this would have very much slanted his view of how to coach the Warriors.

The Warriors will never thrive under a coach that stiffles, Anderson took the shackles off and it was the best this club has ever played in terms of out and out exciting fast aggressive football which is the dna of NZ Rugby league.

Kind of pisses me off to see Ivan encouraging flair and aggression at Penrith.

I'm not quite following the logic... you're saying Ando had the shackles off (which I agree with to an extent) but that Ivan's more conservative coaching approach was influenced by his playing days with us?

But given he played under Ando and made a GF under his 'shackles off' approach, how did that experience shape his early coaching?

 

[sup42]

I'm not quite following the logic... you're saying Ando had the shackles off (which I agree with to an extent) but that Ivan's more conservative coaching approach was influenced by his playing days with us?

But given he played under Ando and made a GF under his 'shackles off' approach, how did that experience shape his early coaching?

Good analogy however if you remember Ivan was the defensive lynch pin of that side and was not a ball playing fullback, he rarely passed the ball or chimed in....in attack he was the exception that proves the rule. Which is the point I make which you find troubling. Hope that explains it for you.

Ando was no fool he had key defensive guys in key positions to offset all the attackers, John Carlaw was the perfect foil for Toopi, Ivan was the same wicket keeper type, last man in the defensive line that suited Andos flair.

In that era all fullbacks were defensive players first apart from rare exceptions that were salary cap busters.

The shit kicker that proves it all was Campion. A defensive player that drove the Ando revolution with the same prejudices about NZ style that Clearly would have been blooded into as an Aussie playing in NZ.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I actually hated a lot of the Ivan era, I felt he was strangling the team. I look back on it more kindly now, knowing that he was dealing with terrible criminal administration/owner who just cared about exploiting merchandise sales from a sucker NZ league public.

Yep. I truly believe that a lot of people are deluding themselves about how they felt about Cleary when Cleary was here. Certainly any time an old thread from 2006-2011 gets dragged up, it tells a different story to what people are saying now.

I am prepared to admit I was probably wrong about the Cleary era while it was happening, in the sense that I was critical of him and yet it turned out to be, in retrospect, a more successful era than it felt at the time. Given how successful he has become, it makes sense to give him the benefit of the doubt about what he would have continued to achieve at the Warriors.

This doesn't however change the reality of what actually happened, which is that he built a squad and a style which was geared towards us being a middle-of-the-road team who tried to sneak into the 8 and then get lucky from there. Overall this worked quite well and in some of those seasons we performed a lot better than how the team looked on paper - but then I believe that, while he obviously wasn't in charge of recruitment, how the team looked on paper had a lot to do with Cleary. He loaded us up with journeymen and told us to play 5 hit-ups and kick. Obviously he was able to get the players to play for him, which is a valuable gift, but to say that he was always building towards a premiership team feels a lot like after-the-fact rationalisation and speculation rather than a true reflection of the team we actually were under him.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I've always been pretty up front about the fact I wasn't a massive Ivan fan when he was here. I never saw the game plan being the right one to win a premiership. Off the back of 01-03 then 07 on I didn't see appreciate how hard it is to make finals consistently.

But nor am I a league person or did I work day to day at the Warriors. John Hart did, a very smart sporting mind who was unequivocal about the fact we had to keep Ivan. But the knuckle heads above him based a strategy around a guy who hadn't coached a day in the NRL system. They let petty politics and parochial BS get in the way of wise decision making and it cost us over a decade.