NRL: Lets talk about relocating teams, says QRL boss.

[Perth Red]

No one is relocating and no one is falling over. Stark reality is that only hope for expansion is to add extra teams, and sadly the NRL has no balls for that. I predict we will have the exact same comp make up as we have now in ten years time.

 

[Perth Red]

If you are going to mix it all up you need to create a new competition/
The problems with the game didn't start until it expanded into QLD

The problem was in 1980's they didn't pick the best 5 Sydney teams and the best 5 Brisbane teams, add in Canberra and start from there! Starting the comp from a Sydney suburban comp was inevitably going to lead to stifling down the track. I guess in the 80's the ARL didn't have the vision for how big and popular the game could become over the next 35 years. They started to realize it by 1990 and tried to solve it by adding teams without rationalizing Sydney. Sound familiar? Would have been really interesting if SL hadn't happened to what the Comp would look like by now.

 

[taipan]

The western half of Sydney, population wise, currently has 2.5 teams, being generous since the Wests Tigers are based at Concord which is in the eastern half. One day Parramatta and Penrith might merge but surely the eastern half of Sydney, with 6.5 teams is the area that is over-represented.

At first glance I could not argue your point fact .
It's not as simple as that, as the spread of club fans in western Sydney would indicate.
Lets face it with Penrith and Parramatta with the biggest junior numbers and in the heavily populated west had crowds not much more than the eastern domiciled teams.I understand poor performance doesn't help, but like the brown stuff it happens to all clubs.

The biggest problem for the code is attendances.Boost these to a great extent and the need to move is
unnecessary.Financially it helps and it helps secure sponsors.So of course does TV exposure.
The Southern code has shown by boosting their crowds, clubs who were on the move list, are in a far stronger position today.

However the Bulldogs fan base stretches well past the C/Bankstown area west to the likes of Liverpool.Move the Dogs to Liverpool?

The North side has one team, which one can argue covers Nth Sydney theoretically,Manly/Warr. and up to Gosford.Move Manly games to Nth Sydney Oval?

Eastern Suburbs is a club in a small pocket(Eastern Suburbs) area population wise and demographic wise .Many of their fans on the outer areas.So yes that club though in a tight area ,has in fact large financial backing.That backing is hardly going to let said club be relocated.Unless of course there is some huge financial benefit.

South Sydney though domiciled along the Coast, with their new C of E and ANZ stadium, have a fair stack of their fans living in Western Sydney.Plus a very large membership,
indicating catchment areas at home ,are not the be all.

The Sharks have the Shire to themselves football code wise, it encompasses the Shire plus the Southern reaches of Dolls Point,Ramsgate .Whilst the Shire population is currently 230,000 ,it is expected to hit 260,000 within a few years.Half their members are locals, and the other half spread over the state, interstate.They own their ground have the 3rd largest junior base in Sydney and should an A league team come in, some games will be played there.
An indication of their strong, or casual and woodwork supporter base was shown on G/F 2016.Thus a local catchment area argument is only part of the story.

Relocate them, and you lose the local derby against the Dragons ,which continually draw decent and sometimes big crowds.

The Dragons of course are spread from their tradition St George area to the South Coast.Any more to relocate them would be suicidal.
And yes I agree, years from now clubs may well merge, but we can only be guided on the knowns.Whatever the admin decides, it will never be met with overwhelming approval, that's human nature.They also have to weigh the consequences.

 

[taipan]

The problem was in 1980's they didn't pick the best 5 Sydney teams and the best 5 Brisbane teams, add in Canberra and start from there! Starting the comp from a Sydney suburban comp was inevitably going to lead to stifling down the track. I guess in the 80's the ARL didn't have the vision for how big and popular the game could become over the next 35 years. They started to realize it by 1990 and tried to solve it by adding teams without rationalizing Sydney. Sound familiar? Would have been really interesting if SL hadn't happened to what the Comp would look like by now.

You lost it with the best 5 Sydney and best 5 Brisbane teams,
that's a dartboard toss comment.The population differential for a start makes it nonsensical, apart from the financials of the clubs involved.

That's BS.The ARL introduced expansion with Canberra in the 80s and the Broncos.The game was going through a period where violence was a problem within the game, which Jim Comans helped clean up.
Have a look at the penalties Coman's dished out.Example front page photo Shark's player Steve Kneen coat hanging an opposition player.Les Boyd charged with eye gouging all around that time or earlier.

Arko and Quayle (the latter had foresight)and the code was killing it in the Tina Turner years up to the early 90s and had money in the bank.Minimum $20m plus.That's about $80m plus in todays money minimum.
For some reason the ARL was going to expand by 2 teams in 1995,but it was suggested that Arko had these great bids, he stated hang it we'll go for 4, and the rest is history.They went overboard and that helped Ribot's argument for SL.
The funny part it was the fans who told the admin of both comps what they thought, by the poor crowds and Tv ratings.

 

[Tigers1986]

Relocate Gold Coast to somewhere that doesn't need to tarp off behind the posts 99% of the time

 

[Perth Red]

Relocate Gold Coast to somewhere that doesn't need to tarp off behind the posts 99% of the time

That’d be afl then, how many nrl clubs have full stands behind the goalposts at both ends?

 

[Tigers1986]

Poor example but when a club draws so little fans they have to tarp off sections to force the crowd into TV friendly spots to give the illusions it's well supported.

 

[Perth Red]

Poor example but when a club draws so little fans they have to tarp off sections to force the crowd into TV friendly spots to give the illusions it's well supported.

Again pretty much 80% of nrl clubs. Titans are by no means the worse supported club in nrl, they just happen to play in a biggish stadium.

 

[RandyAndy]

a few things come to mind regarding expansion adn stadium infrastructure along with public infrastructure are two that need to be sorted to enable an ideal experience when going to games. Many people bring up the good old days and myself including loved the belmore and leichhardt oval growing up. But now they are tired when compared to AAMI park, but the memories will always be with me.

Secondly is gaining the support from the local area and driving membership/community involvement. I have experienced this first hand with WSW, as I signed up to them to be part of a foundation member of a sporting team, and thoroughly love the derby matches and love forward to the one on the weekend.

Living through the SL war, I still believe that was the time to remold the landscape of RL however significant investment needs to be made by the NRL to support a relocated team for five years - like the the AFL does with their teams

It will be quite interesting to see the direction the NRL takes

 

[titoelcolombiano]

NQ Stadium
Suncorp Stadium
Robina Stadium
McDonald Jones Stadium
New Allianz Stadium
WSS Stadium
New ANZ Stadium
AAMI Park

All of these are the future for the game. The only problems that I see are Manly, Cronulla, Penrith, Woollongong and to a lesser extent Canberra. When other clubs are drawing higher attendances, memberships and revenue from corporate suites at the new world class stadia, it may become difficult for these to compete in their current locations.

 

[Perth Red]

NQ Stadium
Suncorp Stadium
Robina Stadium
McDonald Jones Stadium
New Allianz Stadium
WSS Stadium
New ANZ Stadium
AAMI Park

All of these are the future for the game. The only problems that I see are Manly, Cronulla, Penrith, Woollongong and to a lesser extent Canberra. When other clubs are drawing higher attendances, memberships and revenue from corporate suites at the new world class stadia, it may become difficult for these to compete in their current locations.

So far that hasn't happened (higher attendances, memberships etc) to any great degree. 15k at Penrith or 17k at AAMI doesnt make much bottom line difference when clubs are getting $13million RL grants. Cronulla's got its apartment sales to keep it afloat, Penrith has its pokie empire, Raiders as well, Manly has its sugar daddy, St's still seem financially vulnerable but the grant may have plugged a big hole for now.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

So far that hasn't happened (higher attendances, memberships etc) to any great degree. 15k at Penrith or 17k at AAMI doesnt make much bottom line difference when clubs are getting $13million RL grants. Cronulla's got its apartment sales to keep it afloat, Penrith has its pokie empire, Raiders as well, Manly has its sugar daddy, St's still seem financially vulnerable but the grant may have plugged a big hole for now.

So far, yes, but when new Allianz, new ANZ and new WSS are online - you would imagine that the Sydney clubs that take advantage of those stadia are the ones that will begin to prosper over the next decade or so.

 

[TheFrog]

So far, yes, but when new Allianz, new ANZ and new WSS are online - you would imagine that the Sydney clubs that take advantage of those stadia are the ones that will begin to prosper over the next decade or so.

They'll get good crowds at first, but it will revert to normal sooner or later, and the clubs will be left with inflated ground fees to pay, as the Eels are finding out.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

They'll get good crowds at first, but it will revert to normal sooner or later, and the clubs will be left with inflated ground fees to pay, as the Eels are finding out.

You might be right but I'm confident of an upward trend in attendance when all three new stadia are online. We have seen this in Brisbane and Melbourne when new Suncorp and AAMI.

 

[Perth Red]

They'll get good crowds at first, but it will revert to normal sooner or later, and the clubs will be left with inflated ground fees to pay, as the Eels are finding out.

Possibly, possibly not. Storm have sustained their crowd growth since moving to AAMI from the decrepit Olympic Park. Not harmed of course by a once in a lifetime winning team. A stadium alone wont do it but if the Eels can actually get it together on and off the field then the stadium will be a big factor in sustained crowd growth

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Possibly, possibly not. Storm have sustained their crowd growth since moving to AAMI from the decrepit Olympic Park. Not harmed of course by a once in a lifetime winning team. A stadium alone wont do it but if the Eels can actually get it together on and off the field then the stadium will be a big factor in sustained crowd growth

True, and the Broncs went from an average of 17k at the old ANZ Stadium (Brisbane) which was shit for watching RL to 28k when the new Suncorp opened and they have kept the average above 30k every season since.

 

[Teddyboy]

You lost it with the best 5 Sydney and best 5 Brisbane teams,
that's a dartboard toss comment.The population differential for a start makes it nonsensical, apart from the financials of the clubs involved.

That's BS.The ARL introduced expansion with Canberra in the 80s and the Broncos.The game was going through a period where violence was a problem within the game, which Jim Comans helped clean up.
Have a look at the penalties Coman's dished out.Example front page photo Shark's player Steve Kneen coat hanging an opposition player.Les Boyd charged with eye gouging all around that time or earlier.

Arko and Quayle (the latter had foresight)and the code was killing it in the Tina Turner years up to the early 90s and had money in the bank.Minimum $20m plus.That's about $80m plus in todays money minimum.
For some reason the ARL was going to expand by 2 teams in 1995,but it was suggested that Arko had these great bids, he stated hang it we'll go for 4, and the rest is history.They went overboard and that helped Ribot's argument for SL.
The funny part it was the fans who told the admin of both comps what they thought, by the poor crowds and Tv ratings.

I remember reading a interview with Arko and he said back in the early 1980s the plan for the future was to have 4 Sydney clubs, 4 NSW clubs, expansion in Brisbane/Queensland and also New Zealand.

 

[taipan]

I remember reading a interview with Arko and he said back in the early 1980s the plan for the future was to have 4 Sydney clubs, 4 NSW clubs, expansion in Brisbane/Queensland and also New Zealand.

Then along came AFL in Sydney, the SL war, union going professional more direct competition, and everything went haywire.IOW the time to do was in the 80s, but the horse has bolted.
They tried to flick Souths ,that backfired.They have the 2nd highest membership base.
Or as some sarcastically suggest, petmanship base.

 

[flippikat]

NQ Stadium
Suncorp Stadium
Robina Stadium
McDonald Jones Stadium
New Allianz Stadium
WSS Stadium
New ANZ Stadium
AAMI Park

All of these are the future for the game.

The only problems that I see are Manly, Cronulla, Penrith, Woollongong and to a lesser extent Canberra. When other clubs are drawing higher attendances, memberships and revenue from corporate suites at the new world class stadia, it may become difficult for these to compete in their current locations.

Good call, but I think some of these older stadiums' fate hinges (oddly enough) on what the A-League do with their expansion. As their season dove-tails well with the NRL, the "right" decision from the Football powers-that-be COULD inject new life into some heritage grounds.

Manly - Certainly have a problem. Their options are either moving most games to Gosford, OR convincing their supporter base to attend home games at 'New Allianz' OR building a new boutique stadium north of the bridge. I get the feeling just re-vamping Brookvale may just be 'lipstick on a pig' - a total rebuild would be needed - and that ain't cheap. Either way, they need to start an outreach to the WHOLE north shore & maybe even central coast too - looking beyond their suburban roots to widen their market. (see Souths as a great example of this)

Cronulla - maybe have some problems coming. If some of that property development money they keep talking about trickles into substantial upgrades of Shark Park, it might help them. What's the plan there? The "Southern Expansion" bid for an A-League spot *may* help here if it gets in, but it's '3 home venues' approach doesn't add as much to the business case for Shark Park or Woollongong as a full-time, one venue A-League club would.

Penrith - Hmm.. Geography helps them.. as it is a fair way away from other Sydney clubs, but it's just a solid, if unspectacular stadium. Without upgrades (and it's hard to see where the money would come from), they may be faced with taking their home games to Parramatta - the closest stadium with all the flashy modern features.

Woollongong - A tough one to crack. I always thought their best hope for decent upgrades was if the Wolves became an expansion team in the A-League, as having year-round tenants suddenly changes the business case. It seems likely that the Dragons will remain a split-venue team for the forseeable future, but the allure of flash new stadiums in Sydney may mean a lesser share of the home games for the 'Gong.

Canberra - A new stadium is on the drawing board, but it looks like it's going to stay there for a while. IF Canberra can secure an A-League team, that could be the key to unlocking those new stadium plans.

I'd add to the mix Auckland. Mount Smart ain't that great, and if the council's stadium strategy can deliver a brand new replacement to Eden Park (Centrally located, with a "club mode" for lower-pulling games) which sees Mount Smart returned to an athletics venue, that's the ideal.

 

[Perth Red]

Balmain Tigers have gone bust!