NRL officially docks 2 points over Bulldogs 14 players

[jimmythehand]

The Bulldogs should not be stripped of the competition points.

The Bulldogs offended, and should have been penalised by the referee for having 14 players on the field. The referees missed this, and the dogs went on and scored a try.

How is this any different to any other penalisable or other offence committed by players? Broncos knocked on, it wasn't picked up by the referees, they scored a try. Do they lose the competition points now?

Players do all sorts of illegal things like stripping the ball. If the referee misses that and it leads to a winning try, does the result still stand?

Neither Andrew Ryan nor Michael Ennis had an impact on the play. There was no "numbering up" on Andrew Ryan who was out in the wilderness on the right touchline. No Panthers player even knew he was there to be marked.

Clear cut fine for being stupid, losing 2 points would be ridiculous punishment when other mistakes by referees or illegal plays by players that they get away with don't result in competition points being handed back.

 

[big country]

The Bulldogs should not be stripped of the competition points.

The Bulldogs offended, and should have been penalised by the referee for having 14 players on the field. The referees missed this, and the dogs went on and scored a try.

How is this any different to any other penalisable or other offence committed by players? Broncos knocked on, it wasn't picked up by the referees, they scored a try. Do they lose the competition points now?

Players do all sorts of illegal things like stripping the ball. If the referee misses that and it leads to a winning try, does the result still stand?

Neither Andrew Ryan nor Michael Ennis had an impact on the play. There was no "numbering up" on Andrew Ryan who was out in the wilderness on the right touchline. No Panthers player even knew he was there to be marked.

Clear cut fine for being stupid, losing 2 points would be ridiculous punishment when other mistakes by referees or illegal plays by players that they get away with don't result in competition points being handed back.

how do you explain then souths losing 2 points in 1988 for actually fielding 13 players, one of whom was an 18 year old scott wilson who was not on the programme? they pleaded to be let off with just a fine but the Manly run league with Arko and Quayle wouldnt have a bar of it and stripped them of the points. BTW, we beat manly 28-4 and the illegal player was on for 10 minutes at the end and had no bearing on the result, the game was well and truly over. there has been a precedent set and therefore the bulldogs will and should lose the 2 points....if not i can tell you i'll be pretty pi$$ed off with the leagues inconsistencies!!

 

[ouwet]

BTW stripping the Bulldogs and not awarding them to Penrith makes this game worthless AND only beneficial to the other 14 teams, both the Panthers and Dogs miss out. Seriously, i remember the NRL saying golden point losers CANNOT be awarded 1 point because 3 points will be awarded for the game, thus it's not fair... 0 points for this game is not fair and only benefits the other 14 clubs. Either Penrith should get the points or Bulldogs should keep them (Maybe even 1 each).

The NRL should grow some balls and either award 2 points to Penrith or just fine the Dogs and keep the 2 points with them... Imagine if BOTH the Panthers and Dogs miss out on the finals by 1 or 2 points... The team 8 will receive an advantage that's really not fair.

 

[Timmah]

I can cop a fine and hope it's passed on from Ryan and Ayoub's salary because they're idiots. I don't think 2 points is justifiable.

 

[Mr Saab]

I can cop a fine and hope it's passed on from Ryan and Ayoub's salary because they're idiots. I don't think 2 points is justifiable.

Yes it is. Ryan came into the play from the far side when the rules clearly state that that is illegal.
It is black and white.

 

[ElectricEelMan]

BTW stripping the Bulldogs and not awarding them to Penrith makes this game worthless AND only beneficial to the other 14 teams, both the Panthers and Dogs miss out. Seriously, i remember the NRL saying golden point losers CANNOT be awarded 1 point because 3 points will be awarded for the game, thus it's not fair... 0 points for this game is not fair and only benefits the other 14 clubs. Either Penrith should get the points or Bulldogs should keep them (Maybe even 1 each).

The NRL should grow some balls and either award 2 points to Penrith or just fine the Dogs and keep the 2 points with them... Imagine if BOTH the Panthers and Dogs miss out on the finals by 1 or 2 points... The team 8 will receive an advantage that's really not fair.

What happens if the illegal player replacement was intentional? Does it make a difference either way? Is there any justification to grant a team 2 points that have been deducted form another team?

Hypothetical situation.

Team 1 and Team 2 are both on 28 points going into the final round and they play each other with the winner getting a place in the finals. Team 1 has a better point differential and a draw would get them in.

Team 2 is winning by 2 points with a couple of minutes left there is some confusion on the sideline with replacements as Team 1 desperately tries for a victory (perhaps even intentionally putting in extra players cause they know even if they win and the points are taken away from them, the points will not be given to Team 2 and they will be in the finals) resulting in Team 1 having 14 players on the field. They score in the final seconds to win the game.

Team 1 are docked 2 points but Team 2 are NOT given the 'official win' and 2 points so both teams remain on 28 points. Team 1 still get a place in the finals due to superior point differential.

Will this ever happen? Probably not. Could this ever happen? You betcha!

 

[Lycon79]

Didn't this happen to the Broncos a few years and after a few appeals they got their points back? If the Bulldogs legal team are any good they'll keep the two points... oh thats right the last time the bulldogs legal team was called upon SBW bent them over and raped them with a pineapple:crazy:

 

[Bulldog Force]

I can cop a fine and hope it's passed on from Ryan and Ayoub's salary because they're idiots. I don't think 2 points is justifiable.

What exactly did Tony Ayoub do wrong?

 

[Timmah]

That's the thing - I think the error was stupidity - but in no way do I think it was an intentional violation of the rules.

 

[Timmah]

What exactly did Tony Ayoub do wrong?

Um, he was the one who called Ryan back on the field. Maybe he didn't know it was against the rules but it wasn't the smartest thing to do...

 

[ouwet]

What happens if the illegal player replacement was intentional? Does it make a difference either way? Is there any justification to grant a team 2 points that have been deducted form another team?

Hypothetical situation.

Team 1 and Team 2 are both on 28 points going into the final round and they play each other with the winner getting a place in the finals. Team 1 has a better point differential and a draw would get them in.

Team 2 is winning by 2 points with a couple of minutes left there is some confusion on the sideline with replacements as Team 1 desperately tries for a victory (perhaps even intentionally putting in extra players cause they know even if they win and the points are taken away from them, the points will not be given to Team 2 and they will be in the finals) resulting in Team 1 having 14 players on the field. They score in the final seconds to win the game.

Team 1 are docked 2 points but Team 2 are NOT given the 'official win' and 2 points so both teams remain on 28 points. Team 1 still get a place in the finals due to superior point differential.

Will this ever happen? Probably not. Could this ever happen? You betcha!

That's why Penrith should be awarded the points if the NRL feels it was intentional... But we know it wasn't.

 

[ElectricEelMan]

That's why Penrith should be awarded the points if the NRL feels it was intentional... But we know it wasn't.

Panthers should get the points even if it was accidental. I don't know how much Ryan had an effect on the game winning try, but he would have had some effect since the defenders will try to mark every attacking player, so Ryan inadvertently took a defending player out of the play.

 

[Mr Saab]

That's the thing - I think the error was stupidity - but in no way do I think it was an intentional violation of the rules.

And not all high tackles and dangerous throws are intentional...but players are still suspended

 

[Timmah]

The severity of the suspension changes depending on intent does it not?

The same should apply here - an honest mistake by the looks of things. Similar theory to the Broncos situation IMO. A fine is justifiable - an error has been made. Points is extreme.

 

[Garts]

That's the thing - I think the error was stupidity - but in no way do I think it was an intentional violation of the rules.

I have no doubt it was not intentional but I guess alot of high tackles are not intentional but players are still suspended.

 

[Garts]

Woops. See Saab beat me to it. Got a phone call as I started posting.

 

[myanonymoususername]

A bit similar to the grey area sorrounding Brisbane Bronco's players getting drunk and bringing the game into disrepute like Lockyer, Hunt, Thaiday and Boyd but being able to play the following week and Webcke testing positive to a steroid masking agent and being swept under the table.. Or Gorden Tallis punching Ben Ross in the head half a dozen times and not being suspended.. A lot of grey areas up in Brisbane. :sarcasm:

I won't argue with you on any of these points.

 

[Pass the Ball]

Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that it is all because Michael Ennis was having a lie down....????

 

[jimmythehand]

let's get one thing clear here, did Penrith readjust their defensive line to mark up on Andrew Ryan?

From what I saw which was very brief he was out on the sideline and the nearest Panthers player was about 10 metres in from touch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from seeing that the Panthers didn't even know he was there, there was no readjustment to their defensive line, no affect on the play, no affect on the try being scored, no effect on the result, bulldogs shouldn't lose 2 competition points.

 

[Scottey]

The severity of the suspension changes depending on intent does it not?

The same should apply here - an honest mistake by the looks of things. Similar theory to the Broncos situation IMO. A fine is justifiable - an error has been made. Points is extreme.

agree.