NRL posts $46m profit for 2018

[Nerd]

They’ve been doing that for decades, they are well set up to manage the cost of expansion.

Nrl will have to have something significant to offer to not only close the current gap but overtake them. The fear is in doing so it may cause even more damage elsewhere, like in attendances.

Considering that the Suns and GWS haven't been around for decades I don't get your point. The only thing the NRL have to do is to keep winning the ratings to overtake the AFL on the next rights deal.

 

[Cumberland Throw]

Considering that the Suns and GWS haven't been around for decades I don't get your point. The only thing the NRL have to do is to keep winning the ratings to overtake the AFL on the next rights deal.

Mate the independent commission don't even read the ratings at the moment ..

Crazy stuff

 

[Cumberland Throw]

So who pays the extra cost?

It's factored in on a yearly deal..

It's not like they didn't go to Bathurst last year

 

[Perth Red]

Considering that the Suns and GWS haven't been around for decades I don't get your point. The only thing the NRL have to do is to keep winning the ratings to overtake the AFL on the next rights deal.

I meant they’ve been pouring significant sums of money into expansion for decades.

That hasn’t helped us over the last two deals since independent ownership got rid of our excuses.

 

[franklin2323]

It's factored in on a yearly deal..

It's not like they didn't go to Bathurst last year

Either way there is a formula as to what each game costs to produce. That has to be viable so there will be back and forth over 12-18 months seeing if the sums add

 

[siv]

Any financial assist package for new clubs needs to be limited in duration eg 10y years and reduce by 10% every year until $0

We cant allow another Broncis or Storm funding package arangement

 

[magpie_man]

Thanks for doing the calculations PR

Per game the nrl get $36m a year

To get 1 more game you need 2 new teams

We would hope the contract goes up to $50m a game by 2023

Gives you $25 m / club

Grant will be probably $16m

So it gives you $9m over and above a year to support a Perth side to break even ..

And you would think Brisbane 2 would not need $9m top up at all... Maybe $2 m a year to get them set up

On these numbers I'm not sure why we are talking re location at all..

And the bonus is nrl is a 95 minute game we can squeeze games in on sat arvo sun arvo or Monday god forbid

I'd be kicking both of the new clubs $20m minimum per year as a club grant and then reducing the grant by $1m every year until it reaches parity with the others. Some of the established clubs (brands) are still struggling with a $13m grant - how is a nascent club trying to build itself from the ground up in a foreign market supposed to do it?

 

[Perth Red]

I'd be kicking both of the new clubs $20m minimum per year as a club grant and then reducing the grant by $1m every year until it reaches parity with the others. Some of the established clubs (brands) are still struggling with a $13m grant - how is a nascent club trying to build itself from the ground up in a foreign market supposed to do it?

If there was extra start up money available I’d hope it was ring fenced so it went to the right places that meant long term sustainability. Also a portion of the money needs to go to grass roots. In W.A. last year we had over 16% participation growth, and we’ve only got 5 development officers. Imagine what we could achieve with 15 or 20! That’s the problem with the nrl’s lack of long term vision, it should have decided where years ago and been investing in the foundations back then.

 

[taipan]

Mate the independent commission don't even read the ratings at the moment ..

Crazy stuff

Mate the independent commission don't even read the ratings at the moment ..

Crazy stuff

You're kidding after the off season from hell.One of the very first things I suggest they would have looked are TV ratings.

 

[taipan]

If there was extra start up money available I’d hope it was ring fenced so it went to the right places that meant long term sustainability. Also a portion of the money needs to go to grass roots. In W.A. last year we had over 16% participation growth, and we’ve only got 5 development officers. Imagine what we could achieve with 15 or 20! That’s the problem with the nrl’s lack of long term vision, it should have decided where years ago and been investing in the foundations back then.

But they were incurring losses most of those years, bit iffy perhaps to invest then ,with money you didn't have.That's the reason we don't have enough DOs on etc ground.

I see the biggest problem for the NRL pre and post Commission ,is trying to please everybody at once, but in the end pleasing nobody.Bad management does that.Not all working on the same page.
If it were me in charge years ago post SL in this order: from the ground up-
1)Try to rebuild damaged grassroots city and country.By investing in DOs from Day 1.
2)Lobby Govts for grants, and perhaps then we would have much better suburban ground facilities than the current lot.SAFL make us look amateur when it comes to lobbying.
3) Regain the confidence of the fans current and lost.Making special attendance deals.
4)Never axe a foundation club.Ensure each club commits to the regionals each year.
5)Investigate new areas for expansion, once established define a timelines final.
6) Let ch9 know in no uncertain terms, they do not give rugby league(their contracted sport)the marketing priority it deserves ,by comparison to ch 7.
7) Get rid of the dead wood at head office.Gallop had too many years at the helm.People get too comfortable when they are in a position,and lose touch with the fans in the street.
8) Pushing News Ltd to provide more positive stories about the game, instead of their incessant search for the negatives and their emphasis on the negatives.
I would also suggest that journalists with an AFL background, who write rugby league stories(Hellooo Jessica Halloran), that this is mentioned under their name.This sort of thing does happen in journalism. They still have freedom of expression, but readers would like to know ones background.
9) I would have sacked the marketing guy, who gave us the" charismatic"blow the whistle ref campaign, to sell the game.It was like whistling Dixie in a cemetery.

 

[Perth Red]

But they were incurring losses most of those years, bit iffy perhaps to invest then ,with money you didn't have.That's the reason we don't have enough DOs on etc ground.

.

Money was spent, just that most grass roots increases haves continued to go to the NSW cup and Qland cup comps and not to actual grassroots in terms of DO's and Jnrs support programs. We've had 6 years of massive revenue increase and still not seeing it flow to grassroots as it should. In those 6 years weve seen WA's DO positions go form three to five. Now if you are really concerned about having enough talent to expand, and if you do have a long term strategy to have a WA club in NRL at some point in future wouldn't you have thought it might have been more in the games strongest non traditional region? I get resources are finite and plenty of begging bowls are held out in RL but thats even more reason to have a strong long term investment strategy that will support your long term goals.

 

[Whip Whitaker]

But they were incurring losses most of those years, bit iffy perhaps to invest then ,with money you didn't have.That's the reason we don't have enough DOs on etc ground.

I see the biggest problem for the NRL pre and post Commission ,is trying to please everybody at once, but in the end pleasing nobody.Bad management does that.Not all working on the same page.
If it were me in charge years ago post SL in this order: from the ground up-
1)Try to rebuild damaged grassroots city and country.By investing in DOs from Day 1.
2)Lobby Govts for grants, and perhaps then we would have much better suburban ground facilities than the current lot.SAFL make us look amateur when it comes to lobbying.
3) Regain the confidence of the fans current and lost.Making special attendance deals.
4)Never axe a foundation club.Ensure each club commits to the regionals each year.
5)Investigate new areas for expansion, once established define a timelines final.
6) Let ch9 know in no uncertain terms, they do not give rugby league(their contracted sport)the marketing priority it deserves ,by comparison to ch 7.
7) Get rid of the dead wood at head office.Gallop had too many years at the helm.People get too comfortable when they are in a position,and lose touch with the fans in the street.
8) Pushing News Ltd to provide more positive stories about the game, instead of their incessant search for the negatives and their emphasis on the negatives.
I would also suggest that journalists with an AFL background, who write rugby league stories(Hellooo Jessica Halloran), that this is mentioned under their name.This sort of thing does happen in journalism. They still have freedom of expression, but readers would like to know ones background.
9) I would have sacked the marketing guy, who gave us the" charismatic"blow the whistle ref campaign, to sell the game.It was like whistling Dixie in a cemetery.

Foundation clubs don't deserve to be in the NRL just because they are foundation clubs. Other foundation clubs were once cut from the competition. All clubs have a responsibility to manage their finances, and if anything, if there is such prestige around being a foundation club, then there should be less excuses why they don't make money. Regrettably, most clubs are run by idiots who don't know the first thing about sustaining and profiting off a business. Or they are willing to take dumb financial risks to try and win a premiership by spending money beyond their means.

Equally, fans have to feel a little less entitled and know that if they don't consume/invest/spend (merchandise, tickets, memberships etc), they may not have their team around forever.

 

[taipan]

Money was spent, just that most grass roots increases haves continued to go to the NSW cup and Qland cup comps and not to actual grassroots in terms of DO's and Jnrs support programs. We've had 6 years of massive revenue increase and still not seeing it flow to grassroots as it should. In those 6 years weve seen WA's DO positions go form three to five. Now if you are really concerned about having enough talent to expand, and if you do have a long term strategy to have a WA club in NRL at some point in future wouldn't you have thought it might have been more in the games strongest non traditional region? I get resources are finite and plenty of begging bowls are held out in RL but thats even more reason to have a strong long term investment strategy that will support your long term goals.

You'll note ,they tried to do many things instead of allocating them with larger amounts to the right areas.
Grassroots took a heavy hit post 1997.
I am fully aware of the revenue increases over the years.It's how it's been divided up, the emphasis on what areas.
I remember quite a few years back knowing an airline pilot who was earning much more than I or any of my mates.He couldn't make ends meet because of his expenditure.
Meaning it's where the money is expended and are you living within your means.Obviously the code was not doing so thus we ended up with losses many times.
You have more chances of expansion if you have a decent talent pool built up in this country.The argument by some against expansion to 18 teams, there is not enough talent.
My point was, if the code post 1997 after the chaos and the disengagement with many fans and the drop in grassroots ,had been better handled ,with more development officers and incentives for kids to play, we may well have a far bigger pool of players, from which to choose, than we do now.

To the point about strongest in the non traditional region ,then perhaps Perth should have been given the opportunity post 1997 rather than Melbourne .Maybe have a chat with Ribot on that point.

Who knows we may well have had by now a Perth side averaging 19-20,000 and an even bigger junior base, than Melbourne has after 22 years.Just a thought.
So from a strategy point of view, having a new team in a city with a strong junior base and a history of the game, would be more practical than one in. an on heartland area ATT.
You see when a code was half owned by a media organisation, they are only interested in ratings and financial returns.They care little about grassroots or whether Perth is a goer.

 

[taipan]

Foundation clubs don't deserve to be in the NRL just because they are foundation clubs. Other foundation clubs were once cut from the competition. All clubs have a responsibility to manage their finances, and if anything, if there is such prestige around being a foundation club, then there should be less excuses why they don't make money. Regrettably, most clubs are run by idiots who don't know the first thing about sustaining and profiting off a business. Or they are willing to take dumb financial risks to try and win a premiership by spending money beyond their means.

Equally, fans have to feel a little less entitled and know that if they don't consume/invest/spend (merchandise, tickets, memberships etc), they may not have their team around forever.

Better have. a chat with South Sydney,with the largest Sydney membership base, now profitable, with fans spread all over the place.What it shows is a club that was once a basket case financially, can be turned around and made profitable, even if it means privatisation.When that club plays ,the Tv ratings also are up.

Other old foundation clubs were in small areas ,such as Glebe ,etc ,when later the population was spreading to make Sydney a city with a huge geographical spread.
Maybe Newtown the Jets should have gone to Campbelltown,but that was knocked on the head by the then admin.

IOW when you look at expansion. reduction ,any man with half a brain must look at the impact of reduction with a club, and how it would impact, grassroots,crowds and even TV ratings, and to what extent would this assist your competitors.Just a few of many considerations.

It may also change dramatically 20-30 years down the line, that the coastal areas of NSW have a huge increase in population at the expense off Sydney.Some drift is happening now.Then rationalisation may well be essential.
Agree all clubs including mine need to manage their finances as businesses, else like businesses who don't, they fold.

Most clubs were ,some still are run by well meaning people ,but in a number of cases ill equipped and naive people.My club was a classic example.
Even the Titans with new owners ,in an area that has a huge junior base with a great stadiums still struggling for crowds and memberships.

Which is why I was surprised the Storm owned (not a bystander situation)by News (supposedly with business savvy) did not do more forensic checking of their books, let alone the lax NRL

Fans who want their clubs to survive agree need to invest in their clubs' future, by membership,ticketed or non ticketed, merchandise.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Thanks for doing the calculations PR

Per game the nrl get $36m a year

To get 1 more game you need 2 new teams

We would hope the contract goes up to $50m a game by 2023

Gives you $25 m / club

Grant will be probably $16m

So it gives you $9m over and above a year to support a Perth side to break even ..

And you would think Brisbane 2 would not need $9m top up at all... Maybe $2 m a year to get them set up

On these numbers I'm not sure why we are talking re location at all..

And the bonus is nrl is a 95 minute game we can squeeze games in on sat arvo sun arvo or Monday god forbid

You are right about Brisbane 2 if it ends up being the Redcliffe Dolphins they are very well backed. They own their own ground (albeit not to NRL standard) and on the complex they have a rich leagues club and shopping centre that pours money into the football club. They have an impressive asset base

 

[Perth Red]

You'll note ,they tried to do many things instead of allocating them with larger amounts to the right areas.
Grassroots took a heavy hit post 1997.
So from a strategy point of view, having a new team in a city with a strong junior base and a history of the game, would be more practical than one in. an on heartland area ATT.
You see when a code was half owned by a media organisation, they are only interested in ratings and financial returns.They care little about grassroots or whether Perth is a goer.

That's why I only really consider what he game has achieved, or failed to achieve, since 2013. Before that it was screwed with conflict of interest ownership and poor revenue and could be excused for being a basket case when it came to growth, investment and strategy. Since 2013 we have had no such excuses.

 

[Perth Red]

Better have. a chat with South Sydney,with the largest Sydney membership base, now profitable, with fans spread all over the place.What it shows is a club that was once a basket case financially, can be turned around and made profitable, even if it means privatisation.When that club plays ,the Tv ratings also are up.

Other old foundation clubs were in small areas ,such as Glebe ,etc ,when later the population was spreading to make Sydney a city with a huge geographical spread.
Maybe Newtown the Jets should have gone to Campbelltown,but that was knocked on the head by the then admin.

IOW when you look at expansion. reduction ,any man with half a brain must look at the impact of reduction with a club, and how it would impact, grassroots,crowds and even TV ratings, and to what extent would this assist your competitors.Just a few of many considerations.

It may also change dramatically 20-30 years down the line, that the coastal areas of NSW have a huge increase in population at the expense off Sydney.Some drift is happening now.Then rationalisation may well be essential.
Agree all clubs including mine need to manage their finances as businesses, else like businesses who don't, they fold.

Most clubs were ,some still are run by well meaning people ,but in a number of cases ill equipped and naive people.My club was a classic example.
Even the Titans with new owners ,in an area that has a huge junior base with a great stadiums still struggling for crowds and memberships.

Which is why I was surprised the Storm owned (not a bystander situation)by News (supposedly with business savvy) did not do more forensic checking of their books, let alone the lax NRL

Fans who want their clubs to survive agree need to invest in their clubs' future, by membership,ticketed or non ticketed, merchandise.

Using South Sydney as the example, they have achieved this from physically and psychologically moving out of their restricted geographic suburb to tap into a much broader supporter base across the city. Having a mulit-millionaire Hollywood A-lister to make you trendy and attractive to corporates and investors hasn't hurt either but not sure there are many of them floating around for other clubs to do the same?

 

[Whip Whitaker]

Better have. a chat with South Sydney,with the largest Sydney membership base, now profitable, with fans spread all over the place.What it shows is a club that was once a basket case financially, can be turned around and made profitable, even if it means privatisation.When that club plays ,the Tv ratings also are up.

Other old foundation clubs were in small areas ,such as Glebe ,etc ,when later the population was spreading to make Sydney a city with a huge geographical spread.
Maybe Newtown the Jets should have gone to Campbelltown,but that was knocked on the head by the then admin.

IOW when you look at expansion. reduction ,any man with half a brain must look at the impact of reduction with a club, and how it would impact, grassroots,crowds and even TV ratings, and to what extent would this assist your competitors.Just a few of many considerations.

It may also change dramatically 20-30 years down the line, that the coastal areas of NSW have a huge increase in population at the expense off Sydney.Some drift is happening now.Then rationalisation may well be essential.
Agree all clubs including mine need to manage their finances as businesses, else like businesses who don't, they fold.

Most clubs were ,some still are run by well meaning people ,but in a number of cases ill equipped and naive people.My club was a classic example.
Even the Titans with new owners ,in an area that has a huge junior base with a great stadiums still struggling for crowds and memberships.

Which is why I was surprised the Storm owned (not a bystander situation)by News (supposedly with business savvy) did not do more forensic checking of their books, let alone the lax NRL

Fans who want their clubs to survive agree need to invest in their clubs' future, by membership,ticketed or non ticketed, merchandise.

Regrettably it took Souths to be kicked out to make them what they are today. It is not ideal it had to happen this way, but it made their fans even more passionate and determined when they got back in, including throwing their money at tickets and memberships. Throw in the backing of some significant people like Rusty.

Do you think Souths would be the team they are today without having been kicked out and the then backing of Rusty and Co?

Also, I think a lot of Souths fans have a short memory that many of team's fans marched for them, and supported them returning. As soon as they got back in, they told us all they are the pride of the league and the greatest team ever.

 

[BlueandGold]

Better. Their assets more than tripled in the last two years. Credit to them, they made a good deal when it was first built.

What?

They took out a loan of 280m to purchase a revenue generating asset.

Anybody can take out a loan and purchase a asset that generates revenue.

That asset does not generate profit however.

 

[taipan]

That's why I only really consider what he game has achieved, or failed to achieve, since 2013. Before that it was screwed with conflict of interest ownership and poor revenue and could be excused for being a basket case when it came to growth, investment and strategy. Since 2013 we have had no such excuses.

That's easy said that done.You have to analyse the why's.
Yeah well we all know how the game was flying in 1995, before Rupert stuck his nose in. There was some dumb mgt then, but it was popular to the extent ,the AFL was getting nervous in 1995.
Well there was no vision prior when Gallop/Smith were around and so it continued.So using 2013 as an example excludes the incompetence or waste that went on prior.Else we'd have $100m plus in the bank now.