NRL strategic plan 2018-2022 as it relates to expansion

[Walter sobchak]

Seriously. WTF is happening with expansion?? Is expanding to 18 teams going to be part of the discussions regarding the next TV deal? And when is the next TV deal?

If the NRL expands to 18 then Perth and Brisbane2 are the next franchises. Right??

 

[taipan]

Seriously. WTF is happening with expansion?? Is expanding to 18 teams going to be part of the discussions regarding the next TV deal? And when is the next TV deal?

If the NRL expands to 18 then Perth and Brisbane2 are the next franchises. Right??

We'll know one way or the other "publicly "2021" latest .2022 is too late for an expanded 2023 comp.
Next TV deal would have to be late 2021/early 2022 in order to make any decision,as to whether to expand or not.And for any possible;e expansion clubs to source players and management.
In the meantime, who knows whether any clubs fold due to financial issues..

 

[Diesel]

The bidding process for the 95 teams was around ‘91, with teams being offically accepted in mid-late 92.
The Storm were just thrown together in late 97 due to the demise of the Reds and Mariners, so there was 12 or sonmonths notice. The Titans probably knew around late 2005 that they were in for 2007 so bid teams would need to be ready by 2020 to start their pitch in 2021 for a 2023 start

 

[taipan]

From where I sit.Clubs who have spelt out interest will have got a lot of their Ts crossed and Is dotted.
A decision made early 2021 for a 2023 entry, would be possible.Especially players in many cases signing 2 -3 yr deals.And decent lower tier players read to rock and roll so to speak.
Bear in mind there were 4 teams given the go ahead for 95.They needed more time, due to competition for players.IMO only 2 will get the nod, if expansion gets the thumbs up.

Of course every one would like a decision much earlier ,to create momentum and excitement.
Just as what happened when the 4 teams came into the ARL comp

 

[Walter sobchak]

We'll know one way or the other "publicly "2021" latest .2022 is too late for an expanded 2023 comp.
Next TV deal would have to be late 2021/early 2022 in order to make any decision,as to whether to expand or not.And for any possible;e expansion clubs to source players and management.
In the meantime, who knows whether any clubs fold due to financial issues..

I think current teams folding and being replaced by expansion teams is the only hope for expansion in the short term of say 5-10 years.

Who’s looking unstable? Manly?

 

[taipan]

I think current teams folding and being replaced by expansion teams is the only hope for expansion in the short term of say 5-10 years.

Who’s looking unstable? Manly?

Manly ATM.But I don't believe they will fold.Even if Penn pulls out which I doubt,other potential buyers have expressed interest in the club.
If Brookvale is not developed further ,the CC /Brookvale scenario will come into play,that's just my view.

Reading between the lines ,I believe the NRL wants current clubs to remain, and if they go expansion, it will be 18 teams.
I just can't see the NRL wanting to give other codes an opportunity ,to fill a vacuum, and further weaken the status quo.Nor the tremendous negativity that surrounds a club being flicked.
Of course a club in real financial trouble with nil chance of getting out of it, a different matter.

The NRL is starting to build up some cash holding, now Dragons have repaid nearly $6m loan.No further NRL financial underpinning of Titans or Knights, now privately/Leagues club owned.A decent 2018 surplus thrown in.

 

[Walter sobchak]

Manly ATM.But I don't believe they will fold.Even if Penn pulls out which I doubt,other potential buyers have expressed interest in the club.
If Brookvale is not developed further ,the CC /Brookvale scenario will come into play,that's just my view.

Reading between the lines ,I believe the NRL wants current clubs to remain, and if they go expansion, it will be 18 teams.
I just can't see the NRL wanting to give other codes an opportunity ,to fill a vacuum, and further weaken the status quo.Nor the tremendous negativity that surrounds a club being flicked.
Of course a club in real financial trouble with nil chance of getting out of it, a different matter.

The NRL is starting to build up some cash holding, now Dragons have repaid nearly $6m loan.No further NRL financial underpinning of Titans or Knights, now privately/Leagues club owned.A decent 2018 surplus thrown in.

I see that you are a sharks fan and I apologise in advance if my question offends you but what are the chances of say a merger between the sharks and dragons? St George Sutherland sharks sounds good to me.

 

[Diesel]

I see that you are a sharks fan and I apologise in advance if my question offends you but what are the chances of say a merger between the sharks and dragons? St George Sutherland sharks sounds good to me.

Can’t see that ever happening. Both teams seem to be surviving in the current climate and both clubs have had a rocky 5-6 years

 

[taipan]

I see that you are a sharks fan and I apologise in advance if my question offends you but what are the chances of say a merger between the sharks and dragons? St George Sutherland sharks sounds good to me.

Doesn't offend me at all.I've heard and read such a suggestion before.The only way that would happen ,if the Sharks got into financial poo ,like they did a few years back.And they ended up like Manly with a dramatic fall in crowds and membership.

Their development, upgraded Leagues club as part of that development, their State Govt $10m contribution to a new Centre of Excellence, ensure the chances now of moving or a JV are next to zero.

Logistically and historically a joint venture between the Shire and Wollongong is a whole lot different ,than a joint venture between a traditional Kogarah (with their Leagues club)area with Wollongong which works..Although they do not rely on League club backing to the extent the Dogs/Eels/Panthers do, another plus.

Finally the local derby(something that creates interest and crowds in the NRL particularly Dragons v Sharks) that now exists, is gone.
Have never heard or read a Shark's fan back such a move, or confirm they would follow such a new joint venture.Why cut off your nose to spite your face? Both clubs have now decent junior numbers,compatred to some other clubs.

There is no reason to cut any Sydney club, provided they have the financial stability.
There is no reason if the NRL continues to build surpluses, that an 18 team comp,with a 3 conference system 3 x 6can't exist.That conference set up can be changed annually .

Each team within a conference plays each other twice 2 x 5= 10 rounds
Then plays the other 2 conferences teams once 1 x 12= 12 rounds
Total 22 rounds.
A whole rep season could then be intertwined ,meaning no additional pressure on players.You could have byes for teams with rep players.
Anyway ,that's my 50 cent rant.

 

[Walter sobchak]

Doesn't offend me at all.I've heard and read such a suggestion before.The only way that would happen ,if the Sharks got into financial poo ,like they did a few years back.And they ended up like Manly with a dramatic fall in crowds and membership.

Their development, upgraded Leagues club as part of that development, their State Govt $10m contribution to a new Centre of Excellence, ensure the chances now of moving or a JV are next to zero.

Logistically and historically a joint venture between the Shire and Wollongong is a whole lot different ,than a joint venture between a traditional Kogarah (with their Leagues club)area with Wollongong which works..Although they do not rely on League club backing to the extent the Dogs/Eels/Panthers do, another plus.

Finally the local derby(something that creates interest and crowds in the NRL particularly Dragons v Sharks) that now exists, is gone.
Have never heard or read a Shark's fan back such a move, or confirm they would follow such a new joint venture.Why cut off your nose to spite your face? Both clubs have now decent junior numbers,compatred to some other clubs.

There is no reason to cut any Sydney club, provided they have the financial stability.
There is no reason if the NRL continues to build surpluses, that an 18 team comp,with a 3 conference system 3 x 6can't exist.That conference set up can be changed annually .

Each team within a conference plays each other twice 2 x 5= 10 rounds
Then plays the other 2 conferences teams once 1 x 12= 12 rounds
Total 22 rounds.
A whole rep season could then be intertwined ,meaning no additional pressure on players.You could have byes for teams with rep players.
Anyway ,that's my 50 cent rant.

What are league clubs??

 

[taipan]

What are league clubs??

Should have read leagues clubs.There to propagate the game of rugby league.With financial resources.

 

[The Great Dane]

What are league clubs??

Though what Taipan said is 100% accurate it's also a bit vague if you don't really understand what a Leagues club is, so I though I'd try expand on it a bit.

It is effectively the social arm of a club that (in theory) exists to raise funds to support the club/the sport in a region through raising funds through other means than purely through the football business.

Generally they effectively work as a clubhouse for fans and an entertainment complex, they normally have restaurants (or multiple restaurants and buffets), bars, kids play grounds, and gambling facilities (porker machines, etc), sometimes they'll have a team store (though that is quite unusual for some reason, a missed opportunity if you ask me) sometimes they'll have a ground adjacent to them so that you can walk to the game from the club or even watch the game from the club (though that is never the case for big time professional sports teams like an NRL or an AFL match for obvious reasons), if it's a multi sport clubs they have other sports facilities as well like bowling greens, tennis courts, etc, though I've been to plenty before that have had all sorts other entertainment options before like arcades, huge indoor playgrounds, and even mini golf once.

Generally they sell memberships to join the club and that gives you benefits (like cheaper meals, entries into raffles, etc), but you can visit as a non-member as well.

A percentage of profits made at leagues clubs goes into supporting the sport locally (or multiple sports if the club runs programs in multiple sports), it helps funds all levels of the sport right up to first grade and professional teams in the NRL, AFL, Super Rugby, etc, where applicable, and they are a huge business in their own right, more often than not the Leagues club is more successful and/or profitable than the football team, that is definitely the case for basically every NRL club that I know of, and it's a very competitive market and definitely the case that plenty of teams that are really good on the pitch have gone broke and folded over the years cause they have a crap Leagues club while the worst team in the comp is totally loaded financially cause they are backed by a hugely successful one.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't some sort of equivalent in Pommy land if I'm honest...

 

[Walter sobchak]

Should have read leagues clubs.There to propagate the game of rugby league.With financial resources.

Cronulla keep all of the profits or is it split between the sharks and NRL??

 

[Walter sobchak]

Though what Taipan said is 100% accurate it's also a bit vague if you don't really understand what a Leagues club is, so I though I'd try expand on it a bit.

It is effectively the social arm of a club that (in theory) exists to raise funds to support the club/the sport in a region through raising funds through other means than purely through the football business.

Generally they effectively work as a clubhouse for fans and an entertainment complex, they normally have restaurants (or multiple restaurants and buffets), bars, kids play grounds, and gambling facilities (porker machines, etc), sometimes they'll have a team store (though that is quite unusual for some reason, a missed opportunity if you ask me) sometimes they'll have a ground adjacent to them so that you can walk to the game from the club or even watch the game from the club (though that is never the case for big time professional sports teams like an NRL or an AFL match for obvious reasons), if it's a multi sport clubs they have other sports facilities as well like bowling greens, tennis courts, etc, though I've been to plenty before that have had all sorts other entertainment options before like arcades, huge indoor playgrounds, and even mini golf once.

Generally they sell memberships to join the club and that gives you benefits (like cheaper meals, entries into raffles, etc), but you can visit as a non-member as well.

A percentage of profits made at leagues clubs goes into supporting the sport locally (or multiple sports if the club runs programs in multiple sports), it helps funds all levels of the sport right up to first grade and professional teams in the NRL, AFL, Super Rugby, etc, where applicable, and they are a huge business in their own right, more often than not the Leagues club is more successful and/or profitable than the football team, that is definitely the case for basically every NRL club that I know of, and it's a very competitive market and definitely the case that plenty of teams that are really good on the pitch have gone broke and folded over the years cause they have a crap Leagues club while the worst team in the comp is totally loaded financially cause they are backed by a hugely successful one.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't some sort of equivalent in Pommy land if I'm honest...

Are all of these off the field revenue generators housed at the sharks stadium/complex?

Yes clubs in England have club shops at the ground and in the town/city centre. They also have bars, restaurants, public gyms, clubs that hold wedding receptions, christenings and party’s etc all within the stadium complex. Salford Red Devil’s old ground the willows used to have a casino I believe.

 

[The Great Dane]

Are all of these off the field revenue generators housed at the sharks stadium/complex?

In the Sharks case yes, but they are the exception to the rule as they own their stadium, I can't think of another pro club in any sport in Australia where this is the case. The Raiders have 5 of them in Canberra and Queanbeyan, and none of them are close to Bruce at all, so they don't necessarily have to be at or even near the ground, in fact it's probably better to have a few spread around the place, if your club can afford it.

Yes clubs in England have club shops at the ground and in the town/city centre. They also have bars, restaurants, public gyms, clubs that hold wedding receptions, christenings and party’s etc all within the stadium complex. Salford Red Devil’s old ground the willows used to have a casino I believe.

Yeah, now imagine that a club had some or all of that stuff plus a ton of poker machines, but it was all in one big location and you've got a pretty good idea of what a Leagues club is.

 

[taipan]

Cronulla keep all of the profits or is it split between the sharks and NRL??

Cronulla keep all of the profits or is it split between the sharks and NRL??

The profits (small though they may be )in the Shark's Leagues club case, are used firstly for maintain the facility and some ,if it is available to assist the NRL team, and some(though not much) for the benefit of grassroots rugby league in their area.And some to charities also and hospitals along the way.

Quite frankly the profits are just not like they used to be ,due to Govt taxes on poker machines, other forms of entertainment on offer.And in fact the local pubs around the corner now have poker machines, that also eats into income , Leagues clubs in the past received.

Thus NRL clubs like the Manlys,Sharks receive a lot less than other wealthier Leagues clubs with an NRL team, such as Parramatta, Easts,Canterbury,Parramatta,and Penrith.

The NRL to answer you other part ,receives none of the Leagues club profits.Except to repay maybe prior Loans on behalf of the football club.The football club in the NRL benefits with grants from their licensed club..
One of the reasons for the Sharks $500m plus (now well over that mark)developments:
1) To ensure long term life for the Leagues club and the football team.
2) In doing so ,enable a complete refurbishment of the licensed Leagues club, to bring it up to modern day standards ,and thus encourage a big increase in patronage, and as a result profits.
3) Long term to be able to upgrade the Shark's football ground ,with facilities to mirror modern day sport.
4) The development(residential) itself will involve 2,000 plus people living within shouting distance of the club and the retail development, which will incorporate the refurbished licensed club, will no doubt be used by these locals.
In addition the retail rental will provide the licensed club with a decent cash flow, expected to be $1m pa.

It is essential that NRL football clubs long term, must become or learn to become self sufficient, in addition to the normal NRL grants.Become privately owned if need be, have a big membership base, and attendances likewise,and of course facilities that entice people to attend.

Relying almost completely on licensed clubs is becoming a thing of the past.