NRL two conferences

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

This is parody, yeah?

The population of St George and Sutherland is 500k. Having 2 teams in an area that has only 500k fans is insane and the reason both clubs were close to dead in the mid-90s. Brian Smith left the Dragons because he said it had the stench of death.

Dragons merged with Steelers to stay alive in 1999. Cronulla joined Super League to stay alive. The other day it was revealed that Cronulla was going to be relocated because it was broke, but PVL came in and wasted money to keep them alive, after saying Perth won't get a team because he didn't want to waste money. Double standards.

The game is not strong enough in Southern Sydney, so it's time for one of its teams to relocate and the other to embrace the changing demographics within its area so it can attract a new generation of fans, as the oldies who are propping them up now will be dead within 30 years.

Sydney has held the game back due to its insularity for 40 years. The NSWRL were against Origin and called Queenslanders stupid and crazy for wanting it in 1980 and, predicted it would die after one year. This is Exhibit A in the case to never let the NSWRL and its supporters to run the game.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Maybe one of these models might be better -

 

[MugaB]

I posted this about over a year ago, regarding a 4 way conference, i still believe its the best way to not only introduce new franchises, but to even out sheduling and travel, with also generating more localized derbies or rivalries within these conferences

My Preference is a Geographical non-bias Conference that is Split into Compass points Northern, Eastern, Southern and Western.
This is by far fairer solution and will help spread out the Marquee players, whilst also create more local rivalries within each conference, which means more crowds going to those important grudge matches, because they are more valuable wins in the scheme of toping your conference

Northern Conference
North Queensland COWBOYS.
Brisbane BRONCOS.
Gold Coast TITANS.
SOUTH QLD (new).
Newcastle KNIGHTS.
Western Conference
PERTH (new).
Parramatta EELS.
Penrith PANTHERS.
Wests TIGERS.
Canterbury-Bankstown BULLDOGS.
Southern Conference
South Sydney RABBITOHS.
St.George-Ilawarra DRAGONS.
Canberra RAIDERS.
Melbourne STORM.
ADELAIDE (new).
Eastern Conference
New Zealand WARRIORS.
NZ2 (new).
Manly-Warringah SEA EAGLES.
Sydney ROOSTERS.
Cronulla-Sutherland SHARKS.

This is all dependant on where the new franchises are as each conference would carry an expansion team, and hopefully spread the travel, not just holding all sydney teams in one conference where travel isnt a concern

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No kidding that the most watched teams in Brisbane are qld teams sherlock.

Heck I watch broncos, cowboys and titans games and I'm not even a fan.

When did they ever play a 6:00 Friday game? Or a Sunday 2:00 game?

Once in a blue moon.

The broncos - never.

Also channel 9 must show one qld game on fta every week.

The dice is loaded in favour of qld clubs.

Oh and the rabbitohs - dogs gf in 2014 was the most watched game in history dwarfing the afl gf.

Clubs which you want to disappear because of ratings.

It's a furphy to claim Queensland's clubs are favoured. They have to travel more than the Sydney clubs in a competition that has more than 50% of its clubs in a city that doesn't have enough customers to support them. The GF is played in Sydney every year and expansion is always based on what's best for Sydney's financially unviable clubs. Arthurson and Quayle knew back in the 80s that Sydney needed rationalisation, then changed their mind when sooky fans threw a tantrum. Super League came about because Arthurson and Quayle set the new clubs up to fail.

Broncos never host a 6pm Friday game because legislation prevents events being held at Lang Park before 7pm. Cowboys and Titans have hosted the 6pm game. No team is affected more by Thurs/Fri games than the Cowboys, who have fans travelling 4 hours each way to attend games.

People are just going to have to accept that there aren't enough hardcore RL fans in Sydney to warrant it having 9 teams. AwFuL and soccer are going from strength to strength in Sydney, despite not having 9 teams. Maybe they have it right and we've got it wrong.

Sydney clubs cannot whinge about not being shown in prime time all the time. Only six clubs can play on FTA each week, so even if every game was Sydney LGA vs Sydney LGA, three would miss out. Ratings would tank in Queensland and the value of the broadcast rights would drop so low that the annual grant would only be able to cover a reduced salary club, leading to Sydney's weakest clubs going broke.

 

[SBD82]

The population of St George and Sutherland is 500k. Having 2 teams in an area that has only 500k fans is insane and the reason both clubs were close to dead in the mid-90s. Brian Smith left the Dragons because he said it had the stench of death.

Dragons merged with Steelers to stay alive in 1999. Cronulla joined Super League to stay alive. The other day it was revealed that Cronulla was going to be relocated because it was broke, but PVL came in and wasted money to keep them alive, after saying Perth won't get a team because he didn't want to waste money. Double standards.

The game is not strong enough in Southern Sydney, so it's time for one of its teams to relocate and the other to embrace the changing demographics within its area so it can attract a new generation of fans, as the oldies who are propping them up now will be dead within 30 years.

Sydney has held the game back due to its insularity for 40 years. The NSWRL were against Origin and called Queenslanders stupid and crazy for wanting it in 1980 and, predicted it would die after one year. This is Exhibit A in the case to never let the NSWRL and its supporters to run the game.

Legit question.

How much time have you actually spent in kogarah, the shire, or the Illawarra?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Legit question.

How much time have you actually spent in kogarah, the shire, or the Illawarra?

Relevance?

All that matters is Steelers, Dragons and Sharks were unviable in the mid-90s. Dragons are Sharks are still struggling and unviable long-term. People from Sutherland, St George and Wollongong aren't more important than people from any other area in Australia and New Zealand. We need to stop pretending that the rules shouldn't apply to Sydney people because"feelingz" or whatever it is they pull out when the numbers prove the city is incapable of supporting 9 professional RL clubs.

 

[Perth Red]

If the current inflation on spending continues it will be interesting to see what clubs can’t keep up. It was ok to have 9k fans turn up and the local pizza store sponsoring you 30 years ago but now the club normal spend is heading over $30mill a year some clubs are going to struggle to keep up without some radical development happening for them. Even with a massive nrl grant increase a few years ago some clubs still seem to be struggling to make ends meet, largely due to small crowds and small membership sales.

 

[SBD82]

Relevance?

All that matters is Steelers, Dragons and Sharks were unviable in the mid-90s. Dragons are Sharks are still struggling and unviable long-term. People from Sutherland, St George and Wollongong aren't more important than people from any other area in Australia and New Zealand. We need to stop pretending that the rules shouldn't apply to Sydney people because"feelingz" or whatever it is they pull out when the numbers prove the city is incapable of supporting 9 professional RL clubs.

Well that’s certainly a lot of words.

Couple of holes in your theory though.

It’s not the mid 90’s, and the population of The Illawarra and the shire have both increased dramatically since that time.

Both of those areas have a greater population than Townsville. Shall we get rid of the cowboys too? Or would that hurt your feelz?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Well that’s certainly a lot of words.

Couple of holes in your theory though.

It’s not the mid 90’s, and the population of The Illawarra and the shire have both increased dramatically since that time.

Both of those areas have a greater population than Townsville. Shall we get rid of the cowboys too? Or would that hurt your feelz?

Stop telling lies.

Southern Sydney includes the suburbs in the local government areas of Georges River Council and part of Bayside Council (collectively known as the St George area), and broadly it also includes the suburbs in the local government area of Sutherland Shire, south of the Georges River (colloquially known as 'The Shire'). As a result, the area is often referred to as St George and Sutherland, as in the Australian Bureau of Statistics' St George-Sutherland Statistical Subdivision.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Sydney​

So how many people live in this area?

Georges River Council
158,411 (2018 est.)[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_River_Council

Bayside Council
174,378 (2018 est.)[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayside_Council

Sutherland Shire
229,213 (2018 est.)[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Shire​

That's a total of 562,002, which is less than the City of Gold Coast.

Gold Coast
606,774 (2018)[1] (2nd)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Gold_Coast​

Illawarra is a large regional area and people who live there aren't going to travel to the SFS or Kogarah to watch the Saints.

One team can surely cover this area and be profitable. Two teams will just cannibalise each other, which is what they've been doing for 50 years.

North Queensland Cowboys are based in Townsville, but represent everywhere from the far north to Mackay and, have fans who travel up to 4 hours or more to see them play. They also have a world class stadium and draw strong TV ratings on Foxtel and Ch9, whereas Cronulla and St George are some of the lowest drawing teams in the league and play in shitholes.

Logan has 326,615 people, produces more RL players than Sutherland and is more passionate about RL. If you're going to have a team in the smaller Sutherland that is less important to the game as it has less fans and produces fewer players, why aren't you advocating for Logan to have a team?

 

[This Year?]

So now I just find out if I switch off during certain clubs games it affects their marketability and popularity?

I might have to stop watching Storm, Broncos, Bulldogs, Sharks and Souths games then.

 

[This Year?]

I feel like I might be late to this party, but there are many fans that don't live in their club's LGA's. Why should a Sydney club be culled/merged/recolated to make way for a new club?
I'm all for expansion. I just hope when a new club comes in they don't get the same treatment in a few decades that the Sydney clubs who aren't doing so well right now are getting.

 

[SBD82]

Stop telling lies.

Southern Sydney includes the suburbs in the local government areas of Georges River Council and part of Bayside Council (collectively known as the St George area), and broadly it also includes the suburbs in the local government area of Sutherland Shire, south of the Georges River (colloquially known as 'The Shire'). As a result, the area is often referred to as St George and Sutherland, as in the Australian Bureau of Statistics' St George-Sutherland Statistical Subdivision.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Sydney​

So how many people live in this area?

Georges River Council
158,411 (2018 est.)[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_River_Council

Bayside Council
174,378 (2018 est.)[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayside_Council

Sutherland Shire
229,213 (2018 est.)[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Shire​

That's a total of 562,002, which is less than the City of Gold Coast.

Gold Coast
606,774 (2018)[1] (2nd)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Gold_Coast​

Illawarra is a large regional area and people who live there aren't going to travel to the SFS or Kogarah to watch the Saints.

One team can surely cover this area and be profitable. Two teams will just cannibalise each other, which is what they've been doing for 50 years.

North Queensland Cowboys are based in Townsville, but represent everywhere from the far north to Mackay and, have fans who travel up to 4 hours or more to see them play. They also have a world class stadium and draw strong TV ratings on Foxtel and Ch9, whereas Cronulla and St George are some of the lowest drawing teams in the league and play in shitholes.

Logan has 326,615 people, produces more RL players than Sutherland and is more passionate about RL. If you're going to have a team in the smaller Sutherland that is less important to the game as it has less fans and produces fewer players, why aren't you advocating for Logan to have a team?

So people from the large geographic area of the Illawarra don’t count for a Wollongong based team, but Townsville can claim all of north qld.

 

[Mr Spock!]

It's a furphy to claim Queensland's clubs are favoured. They have to travel more than the Sydney clubs in a competition that has more than 50% of its clubs in a city that doesn't have enough customers to support them. The GF is played in Sydney every year and expansion is always based on what's best for Sydney's financially unviable clubs. Arthurson and Quayle knew back in the 80s that Sydney needed rationalisation, then changed their mind when sooky fans threw a tantrum. Super League came about because Arthurson and Quayle set the new clubs up to fail.

Broncos never host a 6pm Friday game because legislation prevents events being held at Lang Park before 7pm. Cowboys and Titans have hosted the 6pm game. No team is affected more by Thurs/Fri games than the Cowboys, who have fans travelling 4 hours each way to attend games.

People are just going to have to accept that there aren't enough hardcore RL fans in Sydney to warrant it having 9 teams. AwFuL and soccer are going from strength to strength in Sydney, despite not having 9 teams. Maybe they have it right and we've got it wrong.

Sydney clubs cannot whinge about not being shown in prime time all the time. Only six clubs can play on FTA each week, so even if every game was Sydney LGA vs Sydney LGA, three would miss out. Ratings would tank in Queensland and the value of the broadcast rights would drop so low that the annual grant would only be able to cover a reduced salary club, leading to Sydney's weakest clubs going broke.

What the hell does travel have to do with being on prime time?

As for Lang Park not having games before 7pm, since when?

I was there when they had a double header a couple of years ago and that started before 7.

So only 6 teams can be on fta. Well 5 actually because one is the broncos - week in, week out. Its a circular argument. No wonder the broncos rate more.

And whoever asked me about who I watch on fta?

Fta ratings is f**king as dodgy as mkr winning a Logie.

Make your mind up..

One minute you're on about ratings, then you're on about attendance.

What does where the gf is held have to do with ratings?

As for holding the game back - were you alive when we had a 20 team comp?

What held the game back was destroying the game's soul.

Which people want to do again.

 

[Mr Spock!]

If the current inflation on spending continues it will be interesting to see what clubs can’t keep up. It was ok to have 9k fans turn up and the local pizza store sponsoring you 30 years ago but now the club normal spend is heading over $30mill a year some clubs are going to struggle to keep up without some radical development happening for them. Even with a massive nrl grant increase a few years ago some clubs still seem to be struggling to make ends meet, largely due to small crowds and small membership sales.

In that case, Melbourne would be the first to fold - but they won't.

Also its a pretty stupid time to be talking about crowds.

And how much revenue are based on crowd figures when the nrl is getting a billion dollar broadcast deal?

 

[Mr Spock!]

I feel like I might be late to this party, but there are many fans that don't live in their club's LGA's. Why should a Sydney club be culled/merged/recolated to make way for a new club?
I'm all for expansion. I just hope when a new club comes in they don't get the same treatment in a few decades that the Sydney clubs who aren't doing so well right now are getting.

Yeah it's almost like the superleague war and the public relations disaster after it, didn't happen.

Seems John Ribot lives on.

 

[Mr Spock!]

Relevance?

All that matters is Steelers, Dragons and Sharks were unviable in the mid-90s. Dragons are Sharks are still struggling and unviable long-term. People from Sutherland, St George and Wollongong aren't more important than people from any other area in Australia and New Zealand. We need to stop pretending that the rules shouldn't apply to Sydney people because"feelingz" or whatever it is they pull out when the numbers prove the city is incapable of supporting 9 professional RL clubs.

Those 9 professional Rugby league clubs are doing better than the Qld clubs.

I'm happy for you to back to the brl.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

So people from the large geographic area of the Illawarra don’t count for a Wollongong based team, but Townsville can claim all of north qld.

Do RL fans from Illawarra travel long distances like RL fans from Far North Queensland extending south ro Mackay?

If so then you can claim them as part of the catchment, but if that were the case they wouldn't be playing games in Wollongong.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

What the hell does travel have to do with being on prime time?

As for Lang Park not having games before 7pm, since when?

I was there when they had a double header a couple of years ago and that started before 7.

So only 6 teams can be on fta. Well 5 actually because one is the broncos - week in, week out. Its a circular argument. No wonder the broncos rate more.

And whoever asked me about who I watch on fta?

Fta ratings is f**king as dodgy as mkr winning a Logie.

Make your mind up..

One minute you're on about ratings, then you're on about attendance.

What does where the gf is held have to do with ratings?

As for holding the game back - were you alive when we had a 20 team comp?

What held the game back was destroying the game's soul.

Which people want to do again.

Who said anything about travel influencing who is on FTA?

I'm responding to your claim that everything is rigged in favour of Queensland's three teams. I gave you a heap of examples that show Sydney teams enjoy many advantages that give them a competitive edge on the field.
I pointed out that Queensland's teams have the misfortune of travelling more than the financially unviable Sydney clubs, which is a massive burden in a highly physical sport like RL.

Do you believe Queensland clubs are benefitting from all this travel?

The GF being held in Sydney every year is a huge advantage to all Sydney clubs. Regardless of where they finish on the ladder, they get home town advantage and don't have to travel. That extra day of rest is huge. If you're a fan from outside of Sydney you have to fly down there, with airfare prices heavily inflated.

I've been watching the game since the early 1990s, so yes, I saw the 20 team competition in 1995. I started following the Cowboys from their inception. We won 2 games and I got to see my team play on TV just 4 times, as that's all we got in Brisbane. Those games were against Bulldogs, Broncos, Crushers and Seagulls. I also watched the Queensland Cup from 1996 onwards and the BRL before that. The Reds were shackled with the travel and accommodation costs of all teams that played at the WACA. That's a recipe for disaster. The VFL did the same thing with the Eagles in 87 and it sent them broke. If it wasn't for Indian Pacific bailing the Eagles out then the club would have folded.

I've shown you evidence that the Broncos rate more than any other club. It's got nothing to do with them being on FTA every week and everything to do with them being the only NRL club in the world's 2nd largest RL city. Sydney wants to have 9 teams, but they also want those clubs to have the same advantages that come with being a one team town and sook like babies when the Broncos and Cowboys reap the benefits of having large areas to themselves. You can't have it both ways.

It was reported back in 2015 that Lang Park cannot legally host 6pm games on a Friday.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/spor...e/news-story/35125a0422850ecd78114e8dae5ad80a

@Captain Apollo mentioned it in 2015.

https://forums.leagueunlimited.com/threads/next-tv-rights-deal-part-2.450595/page-43#post-11224264

 

[MugaB]

So people from the large geographic area of the Illawarra don’t count for a Wollongong based team, but Townsville can claim all of north qld.

Im telling you he is a Moron, uses some marketability graph as the be all end all data, then cross references the LGA, then decides to relocate and cull every team he can till there's only A-league left... Dumb, Dumb, Dumb.... the graph doesn't even show warriors on it... it just becomes irrelevant!

Expansion is not about just adding dots to a map, its about doing that and rising all boats in the ocean together, you dont take from peter to give to paul.


GROTD mathematics is -4 plus 2 = 14




.... dumb

 

[MugaB]

What the hell does travel have to do with being on prime time?

As for Lang Park not having games before 7pm, since when?

I was there when they had a double header a couple of years ago and that started before 7.

So only 6 teams can be on fta. Well 5 actually because one is the broncos - week in, week out. Its a circular argument. No wonder the broncos rate more.

And whoever asked me about who I watch on fta?

Fta ratings is f**king as dodgy as mkr winning a Logie.

Make your mind up..

One minute you're on about ratings, then you're on about attendance.

What does where the gf is held have to do with ratings?

As for holding the game back - were you alive when we had a 20 team comp?

What held the game back was destroying the game's soul.

Which people want to do again.

Not People, just him