NRL two conferences

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Those 9 professional Rugby league clubs are doing better than the Qld clubs.

I'm happy for you to back to the brl.

Aren't the Bulldogs sitting on the bottom with just one win?

If we're going by attendances then you're flat out wrong. The last time we had a season that unaffected by COVID-19 was 2019, and Broncos were 1st, Cowboys were 12th and Titans 15th. Cowboys finished ahead of three Sydney clubs. Gold Coast finished ahead of 1. Broncos finished ahead of all 9.

TV ratings aren't favourable for Sydney's clubs. Since you don't believe FTA figures, I'll give you the Foxtel ones. Foxtel knows exactly how many of their customers are watching one of their channels, which channel they're watching and how long they're watching it for.


Quayle came up to Brisbane begging the QRL to field a team in the NSWRL for the 87 season. When the QRL turned him down he called Queenslanders backwards. We were happy to stay up here, but the Sir Johannes Bjelke-Petersen Gov had a ban on electronic gaming machines at licenced venues, whereas they were legal in NSW from the mid-50s. NSWRL clubs used the extra revenue from pokies to poach Queensland's best players. It's why Origin was created. The BRL produced the games best players in the late 70s and 80s, which was made abundantly clear when Queenslanders who played under it dominated Origin in the 80s. Combined Brisbane went on to beat all of your clubs. The Wynnum Manly team from the mid-80s would have beaten any team from the NSWRL. Four Australian Internationals played in that Wynnum Manly team. It didn't always win the BRL either, showing how strong the competition was. The Queensland team that pounded NSW during the early 80s selected most of its players from the BRL.

Give me the BRL over the N(SW)RL any day.

You talk about the game losing its soul, but that was done by Arthurson and Quayle when they went out of their way to kill every competition in the country so they could be the only player in the game after getting humiliated year after year by the little league in Brisbane that only had a fraction of the resources. Arthurson and Quayle were in favour of rationalising Sydney as far back as the 80s, so you can't blame everything on Murdoch.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Im telling you he is a Moron, uses some marketability graph as the be all end all data, then cross references the LGA, then decides to relocate and cull every team he can till there's only A-league left... Dumb, Dumb, Dumb.... the graph doesn't even show warriors on it... it just becomes irrelevant!

Expansion is not about just adding dots to a map, its about doing that and rising all boats in the ocean together, you dont take from peter to give to paul.


GROTD mathematics is -4 plus 2 = 14




.... dumb

You're so stupid you cannot even spell properly.

Did you even finish school?

The reason Warriors weren't on that graph is because their value is through Sky and lack of FTA games in Australia.

Here's what the creator of the graph said about not including the Warriors.

"I’ve declined to include the Warriors because they bring most of their value through the New Zealand TV deal and have had three (3) free-to-air games on Australian TV in three (3) years."

https://pythagonrl.com/2020/04/06/e...-about-nrl-tv-ratings-but-were-afraid-to-ask/​

You talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul. What do you think the NSWRL did to the BRL and every other competition?

What do you call making the Western Reds pay for travel and accommodation of all Sydney clubs when they played in Perth because they were too poor to do it themselves?

The only reason there are 9 teams in Sydney is because the annual grant is set at 130% of the salary cap. Despite each club getting about $4m from the NRL to spend on their football department, the Sharks were so broke they needed to be bailed out by PVL to stay afloat. This is the same PVL who said no money would be wasted on teams from "rusted-on AFL states", yet there he was taking money that could have been spent on junior RL and giving it to a club that has fallen on its arse and needed to be bailed out more times since the mid-90s than a compulsive gambler who has no job. The ARLC actually wanted to relocate the Sharks!

You were stupid enough to advocate the NRL expand to 24 or 32 teams. I've asked you numerous times to explain where the ARLC would get the capital to support your ridiculous proposal. I'm yet to get an answer from you. Broadcasters aren't going to pay 150% to 200% of the current deal to support a 24 or 32 team league, which is what will need to happen so that the annual grant can remain where it is. None of the current teams will accept a reduction in the annual grant to fit another 8 or 16 teams into the NRL. The RLPA will never agree to a reduction in the salary cap just so another 8 or 16 teams can enter the league.

 

[MugaB]

You're so stupid you cannot even spell properly.

Did you even finish school?

The reason Warriors weren't on that graph is because their value is through Sky and lack of FTA games in Australia.

Here's what the creator of the graph said about not including the Warriors.

"I’ve declined to include the Warriors because they bring most of their value through the New Zealand TV deal and have had three (3) free-to-air games on Australian TV in three (3) years."

https://pythagonrl.com/2020/04/06/e...-about-nrl-tv-ratings-but-were-afraid-to-ask/​

You talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul. What do you think the NSWRL did to the BRL and every other competition?

What do you call making the Western Reds pay for travel and accommodation of all Sydney clubs when they played in Perth because they were too poor to do it themselves?

The only reason there are 9 teams in Sydney is because the annual grant is set at 130% of the salary cap. Despite each club getting about $4m from the NRL to spend on their football department, the Sharks were so broke they needed to be bailed out by PVL to stay afloat. This is the same PVL who said no money would be wasted on teams from "rusted-on AFL states", yet there he was taking money that could have been spent on junior RL and giving it to a club that has fallen on its arse and needed to be bailed out more times since the mid-90s than a compulsive gambler who has no job. The ARLC actually wanted to relocate the Sharks!

You were stupid enough to advocate the NRL expand to 24 or 32 teams. I've asked you numerous times to explain where the ARLC would get the capital to support your ridiculous proposal. I'm yet to get an answer from you. Broadcasters aren't going to pay 150% to 200% of the current deal to support a 24 or 32 team league, which is what will need to happen so that the annual grant can remain where it is. None of the current teams will accept a reduction in the annual grant to fit another 8 or 16 teams into the NRL. The RLPA will never agree to a reduction in the salary cap just so another 8 or 16 teams can enter the league.

HSC completed buddy, and you took the comments on 24-32 clubs out of context, i mentioned that in regards to licences getting handed out, you were of the belief that only a few can be handed out, i said there's no limit due to they aren't a currency restricted to 16-18 teams only.. and your dumb, not because you don't get that, but coz you jump at shadows and conclusions based on a marketability graph and a population count, only twisting your views to a narrative that the league would be better off without its current branding across the 16 clubs, forgetting that form, roster retention, junior NRL talent actually being created at Southern Sydney and Western NSW clubs and catchments, plus FTA advantages from across the league, affect every club in different ways..

You are A MORON. and i actually thought i was on ignore from you, but it seems that any interactions I have on these threads, seem to get a reply or subtle hint of bad grammar from GROTD who is become not only a buffoon, but the grammar police..
Your maths astounds me, and your ideas are even worse.

P.s. no one cares what happened to the BRL.

 

[baselinepanther]

nothing says sydney rivarly like a sharks v bulldogs game at a suburban ground with 6000 people in attendance

 

[baselinepanther]

just have the sydney sides play each other twice in a combined comp
end of

 

[SBD82]

Do RL fans from Illawarra travel long distances like RL fans from Far North Queensland extending south ro Mackay?

If so then you can claim them as part of the catchment, but if that were the case they wouldn't be playing games in Wollongong.

Can you try that again? I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say.

 

[MugaB]

Can you try that again? I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say.

As if this marketability graph can tell you about llawarra fans travelling, can't even get the warriors on it, so don't waste your with idiots SBD82, it will only bring you down to that moronic level

 

[Zoe Palmer]

TV ratings aren't favourable for Sydney's clubs. Since you don't believe FTA figures, I'll give you the Foxtel ones. Foxtel knows exactly how many of their customers are watching one of their channels, which channel they're watching and how long they're watching it for.


.

So over a season the cowboys had approx 500,000 more viewers than the sharks.
About 20,000 per week?

The storm, 600,000

interesting

 

[MugaB]

So over a season the cowboys had approx 500,000 more viewers than the sharks.
About 20,000 per week?

The storm, 600,000

interesting

Read the fine print, doesn't include, streaming, mobile, standard television and New Zealand, what does that tell you? Absolutely fück all

 

[Zoe Palmer]

Read the fine print, doesn't include, streaming, mobile, standard television and New Zealand, what does that tell you? Absolutely fück all

It also tells me that over decades of being a champion team & great club the storm don’t draw significantly more than the floundering sharks

 

[Valheru]

Which is why I think 4 conferences would work better.

Western Conference
PENRITH 16
PARRAMATTA 14
Wests 4
Canterbury 2

Eastern Conference
SOUTHS 14
EASTS 12
WARRIORS 8
Manly 6

Southern Conference.
MELBOURNE 12
St Merge 8
CANBERRA 6
Cronulla 4

Northern Conference
GOLD COAST 6
Newcastle 6
Nth Qld 6
Brisbane 4

This post perfectly illustrates the potential issues with divisions/conferences.

The notion that one of those northern conference teams qualifies for the finals as a top 4 seed is yuck

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

HSC completed buddy, and you took the comments on 24-32 clubs out of context, i mentioned that in regards to licences getting handed out, you were of the belief that only a few can be handed out, i said there's no limit due to they aren't a currency restricted to 16-18 teams only.. and your dumb, not because you don't get that, but coz you jump at shadows and conclusions based on a marketability graph and a population count, only twisting your views to a narrative that the league would be better off without its current branding across the 16 clubs, forgetting that form, roster retention, junior NRL talent actually being created at Southern Sydney and Western NSW clubs and catchments, plus FTA advantages from across the league, affect every club in different ways..

You are A MORON. and i actually thought i was on ignore from you, but it seems that any interactions I have on these threads, seem to get a reply or subtle hint of bad grammar from GROTD who is become not only a buffoon, but the grammar police..
Your maths astounds me, and your ideas are even worse.

P.s. no one cares what happened to the BRL.

There is a limit to how many licences can be handed out because the ARLC has to come up with $13m each year for each team's annual grant. With the bulk of the game's revenue tied up with broadcast deals, and the broadcasters wanting to pay less, not more, there's no way the ARLC can add as many teams as they want to the competition. If you can't understand that then there's no hope for you.

No one on here has been able to come up with a legitimate reason for Sydney to retain its 9 clubs. All I've gotten is lame responses that make no sense, like @SBD82 bringing up Illawarra when I spoke about the population of St George and Sutherland.

How many people travel from Illawarra to Kogarah?

Be honest. I keep hearing we need Manly to stay where they are because their fans won't travel over an hour to the SFS or Gosford, yet you expect me to believe people from Illawarra are different?

Pull another one. If Sydney's RL fans are so good at travelling then you don't need a team in every nook and cranny of the city.

I've seen Sydney fans claim we need to bring back the Bears because their territory has apparently been lost to AwFuL/RU and, its people make up a considerable sum of the 35k people who travel into the CBD to watch the Swans, but apparently they won't go to the SFS because it's too far, despite being across the road from the SCG. WTF?

People outside of Sydney don't care about Sydney's clubs. Most people from Sydney don't care for them either. I think it was summed up well when Peter Beattie spoke to a kid wearing a soccer jersey of some team from Europe, mistaking him for a Knights supporter. It shows that what us oldies like and how we think is a world apart from how today's kids think. They care about global brands, not some tiny RL club representing less than 300k people in a pocket of metropolitan Sydney. Stop blaming the lack of FTA exposure for your teams' woes. When you've got 9 clubs from one metro area in a 16 team national competition then most of them cannot be broadcast on FTA, which is obvious to anyone who understands basic economics.

Of course the Broncos are going to feature on FTA each week, they're the sole team in RL's 2nd largest market, representing 2.4m people. Do you seriously expect Ch9 to ignore 2.4m people so they can show some tinpot team from Sydney that has a catchment of less than 300k and draws a loss making rating?

Not all or Sydney's 5m people are going to watch a team that represents a catchment of well under 300k. Gyngel summed it up when he said Ch9 makes more money from screening the Broncos than any other team. When you're paying big bucks for a product you want a return on that investment. Broncos provide the best return, and it's not for the reasons @Spock says.

It's incredibly selfish for people from Sydney to want 9 clubs in its metropolitan area, most of whom are financially unviable, draw low crowds and poor TV ratings but expect other RL areas to be massively under-represented while Australia's 4th and 5th largest metro areas are unrepresented. If you lot cannot see how this is stifling the game's growth and setting the game up for a massive fall over the upcoming decades then you've got serious problems. Not even the kids of Sydney give a f**k about your 9 teams. They're the people your clubs will need as supporters in 30 years from now when many of us are dead. They're more interested in soccer and are embracing fumbleball.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It also tells me that over decades of being a champion team & great club the storm don’t draw significantly more than the floundering sharks

Except they do. Last year they were the most watched team on Foxtel.

Look at this graph.

So over a season the cowboys had approx 500,000 more viewers than the sharks.
About 20,000 per week?

The storm, 600,000

interesting

Those extra viewers equate to more money from advertisers. The Cowboys are able to draw good ratings while finishing in the bottom 4 on the NRL ladder since 2017. Sydney clubs don't pull strongly like this when they're at the foot of the ladder. That's the difference and proof Sydney is oversaturated.

 

[MugaB]

when many of us are dead.

Hurry up then, you go first...
All your drivel is just that drivel, you rationalize all your points as Sydney's 9 club's are the problem, but without them your team would be nothing, there was nothing up there in north qld of note when these Sydney clubs were created, they created this comp, and your team was just invited, hell they might have even kicked them out, if the distance from brisbane wasn't so far, so for all your stats, and premonitions of how a well run "national" RL comp could be, you fail to realize, your team was just a guest, and that this comp started and was tremendously more popular before the cowboys inception, those 9 Sydney clubs regardless of stats all were champions in some era of their existence, and can do it again along with any other current NRL team.
Your logic fails due to the metrics you use, crowds, ratings, memberships, marketability graphs, all that shít don't matter, the clubs and the brands they represent are the NRL, and if you cull one, all your doing is cutting off a foot or an arm, that wil affect the whole league, hard lessons that the powers that be learnt post Superleague, you kill the brand by removing any team.

This is why you'll never understand why you're a fool, coz you think adding dots to a map means the club will be successful, half the clubs could all be on the moon, and still run the same way, pick up the Storm and relocate them to Perth or Christchurch, i guarantee you they are still ontop and making finals, move Roosters to Adelaide, they'll still win GF's, all the data in the world won't back up your case, well run clubs, win games more often, get the better coaches, who draw the better talent, get the better timeslots, get the better sponsors, can get the bigger crowds. Its a roll on effect, but as soon as there is a bit of mismanagement, and bend your 1st grade roster out of shape, welcome to the 2020 brisbane broncos folks.

 

[SBD82]

There is a limit to how many licences can be handed out because the ARLC has to come up with $13m each year for each team's annual grant. With the bulk of the game's revenue tied up with broadcast deals, and the broadcasters wanting to pay less, not more, there's no way the ARLC can add as many teams as they want to the competition. If you can't understand that then there's no hope for you.

No one on here has been able to come up with a legitimate reason for Sydney to retain its 9 clubs. All I've gotten is lame responses that make no sense, like @SBD82 bringing up Illawarra when I spoke about the population of St George and Sutherland.

How many people travel from Illawarra to Kogarah?

Be honest. I keep hearing we need Manly to stay where they are because their fans won't travel over an hour to the SFS or Gosford, yet you expect me to believe people from Illawarra are different?

Pull another one. If Sydney's RL fans are so good at travelling then you don't need a team in every nook and cranny of the city.

I've seen Sydney fans claim we need to bring back the Bears because their territory has apparently been lost to AwFuL/RU and, its people make up a considerable sum of the 35k people who travel into the CBD to watch the Swans, but apparently they won't go to the SFS because it's too far, despite being across the road from the SCG. WTF?

People outside of Sydney don't care about Sydney's clubs. Most people from Sydney don't care for them either. I think it was summed up well when Peter Beattie spoke to a kid wearing a soccer jersey of some team from Europe, mistaking him for a Knights supporter. It shows that what us oldies like and how we think is a world apart from how today's kids think. They care about global brands, not some tiny RL club representing less than 300k people in a pocket of metropolitan Sydney. Stop blaming the lack of FTA exposure for your teams' woes. When you've got 9 clubs from one metro area in a 16 team national competition then most of them cannot be broadcast on FTA, which is obvious to anyone who understands basic economics.

Of course the Broncos are going to feature on FTA each week, they're the sole team in RL's 2nd largest market, representing 2.4m people. Do you seriously expect Ch9 to ignore 2.4m people so they can show some tinpot team from Sydney that has a catchment of less than 300k and draws a loss making rating?

Not all or Sydney's 5m people are going to watch a team that represents a catchment of well under 300k. Gyngel summed it up when he said Ch9 makes more money from screening the Broncos than any other team. When you're paying big bucks for a product you want a return on that investment. Broncos provide the best return, and it's not for the reasons @Spock says.

It's incredibly selfish for people from Sydney to want 9 clubs in its metropolitan area, most of whom are financially unviable, draw low crowds and poor TV ratings but expect other RL areas to be massively under-represented while Australia's 4th and 5th largest metro areas are unrepresented. If you lot cannot see how this is stifling the game's growth and setting the game up for a massive fall over the upcoming decades then you've got serious problems. Not even the kids of Sydney give a f**k about your 9 teams. They're the people your clubs will need as supporters in 30 years from now when many of us are dead. They're more interested in soccer and are embracing fumbleball.

This is dumb and you should feel dumb.

 

[MugaB]

This is dumb and you should feel dumb.

Yes this ^^^^^
let's see what happens when the debate of why the cowboys aren't competitive since they stopped their NYC team... im glad Kayln, Kiks and BlokoCheese left them, they were going down hill fast.

 

[Perth Red]

The radical thing to do to expand the league sustainably would be to:

Cut the club grant to $10million. This frees up enough money for 4 new teams.
Reduce salary cap to $8million plus one marquee signing to keep the stars away from Onion
Set a spending cap on clubs of $26million a year, plus extra sending allowed on business and customer growth opportunities (This instantly makes all clubs profitable and much more viable for investors)
Enforce the Football Club spending cap properly
NRL to retake control of membership marketing and growth with them taking a 10% cut of growth revenue

Of course far far too much self interest to ever see that but it would be the best way to grow the NRL to a lot more viable teams

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Hurry up then, you go first...
All your drivel is just that drivel, you rationalize all your points as Sydney's 9 club's are the problem, but without them your team would be nothing, there was nothing up there in north qld of note when these Sydney clubs were created, they created this comp, and your team was just invited, hell they might have even kicked them out, if the distance from brisbane wasn't so far, so for all your stats, and premonitions of how a well run "national" RL comp could be, you fail to realize, your team was just a guest, and that this comp started and was tremendously more popular before the cowboys inception, those 9 Sydney clubs regardless of stats all were champions in some era of their existence, and can do it again along with any other current NRL team.
Your logic fails due to the metrics you use, crowds, ratings, memberships, marketability graphs, all that shít don't matter, the clubs and the brands they represent are the NRL, and if you cull one, all your doing is cutting off a foot or an arm, that wil affect the whole league, hard lessons that the powers that be learnt post Superleague, you kill the brand by removing any team.

This is why you'll never understand why you're a fool, coz you think adding dots to a map means the club will be successful, half the clubs could all be on the moon, and still run the same way, pick up the Storm and relocate them to Perth or Christchurch, i guarantee you they are still ontop and making finals, move Roosters to Adelaide, they'll still win GF's, all the data in the world won't back up your case, well run clubs, win games more often, get the better coaches, who draw the better talent, get the better timeslots, get the better sponsors, can get the bigger crowds. Its a roll on effect, but as soon as there is a bit of mismanagement, and bend your 1st grade roster out of shape, welcome to the 2020 brisbane broncos folks.

This is BS. Before 1988, the state of Queensland didn't give a stuff about the NSWRL. Games from the NSWRL weren't even broadcast up here until about 10.30pm at night most of the time. If you were in North Queensland you wouldn't even get the scores of NSWRL games on the radio. BRL games were broadcast all over the state in prime time. Kids out in country Queensland wore BRL jerseys. You're as ignorant and delusional as Stallion. He used to claim that Sydney clubs had a massive following around the country in the 80s, and it just isn't true.

If you want proof of just how delusional your theory is, compare Super League with ARL 97. Super League drew bigger crowds and ARL was close to insolvency by the end of the year. That's what would happen if the NRL reverted back to being the NSWRL.


https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/1997SL.html


https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/1997.html

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

This is dumb and you should feel dumb.

If it's so dumb you'll have no trouble counter arguing it. I've never seen you present a legitimate argument. All you do is throw out insults when people use facts to counter your poor grasp of reality. You are a child.

Everything I said in the post you quoted is true. You cannot counter it so you resort to gaslighting. Grow up mate.

You did bring up the "growth" of Illawarra and Sutherland when I pointed out that St George and Sutherland has 560k people. A smart person would have stayed on topic and spoke about St George and Sutherland, but you substituted one area for another because you didn't have an argument, so you moved the goalposts. You are dishonest and stupid. The fact you brought up a regional area outside of Sydney reinforces my point!

 

[SBD82]

If it's so dumb you'll have no trouble counter arguing it. I've never seen you present a legitimate argument. All you do is throw out insults when people use facts to counter your poor grasp of reality. You are a child.

You did bring up the "growth" of Illawarra and Sutherland when I pointed out that St George and Sutherland has 560k people. A smart person would have stayed on topic and spoke about St George and Sutherland, but you substituted one for another area because you didn't have an argument, so you moved the goalposts. You are dishonest and stupid.

I tried to engage with you authentically. But it appears that you’re either incapable or unwilling.

Why should I bother?