NRL wants two conference comp

[The Great Dane]

Disagree about souths. They are a great example of how of you Modernise a club and if you put your focus on building your customer base you can become a profitable club with relevance and increased value to the competition. All clubs have that potential but few have the ability or desire to achieve it.

I agree with all that, but it doesn't really address the point I was making though does it.

All that can be true and it still be true that the league would probably be better off if they were kicked back out in 04.

 

[siv]

Promotion Relegation

Imagine the outcry if it applied to 2020

Brisbane & Canterbury relegated

Or 2019

St George-Illawarra & Gold Coast

Or 2018

Manly & Parramatta

Or 2017

Gold Coast & Newcastle

 

[mongoose]

although this isn't the forum to discuss it, if the the game wants an overhaul which in my opinion would fix a lot of problems with wrestling and in turn officiating it should reduce the number of players on the field to 12 and go back to a 5m rule. The game has evolved in an ugly way because rules haven't adapted properly to the increased player fitness, strength and speed.

 

[Spanner in the works]

Promotion Relegation

Imagine the outcry if it applied to 2020

Brisbane & Canterbury relegated

Or 2019

St George-Illawarra & Gold Coast

Or 2018

Manly & Parramatta

Or 2017

Gold Coast & Newcastle

Alternatively, the joy of seeing clubs like Redcliffe, PNG Hunters, Newtown, etc get their shot at the main game. Fantastic way to build rugby league's footprint too...

Closed league systems are by their very definition are anti-competition compared to open league systems, which actually allow more opportunity for clubs and players across the code and country to get their shot.

Why does any club have the right to be in the first grade comp? Open it up to regular new entrants, force clubs to innovate and improve imo.

 

[mongoose]

You kick Souths out before Crowe's takeover and none of the above happens. Instead-

• Some other Sydney club becomes the big successful Sydney club. So you don't really lose anything, it's just that e.g. Parra goes through a golden patch instead of Souths.
• With one less club there's less competition in the Sydney market and all the clubs are better off for it, and less of them hit significant financial difficulties.
• The NRL doesn't rush expansion in the 00s to even the comp, therefore the Titans and all their problems don't happen, and the NRL probably expands sometime in the early 10s with much better options on the table instead.

I could go on, but you get the point.

People don't want to hear it, but if we are being objective the benefits of Souths being kicked back out in 04, thus having one less club in Sydney, probably outweigh the benefits of the Crowe era Rabbitohs, especially when considering that the Crowe era can't last forever...

Maybe, I agree with the 2nd and 3rd points. In hindsight though it was probably a mistake to kick Souths out over another club. If you were rationalizing Sydney now, Souths would top the criteria along with probably Parra.

 

[Perth Red]

I agree with all that, but it doesn't really address the point I was making though does it.

All that can be true and it still be true that the league would probably be better off if they were kicked back out in 04.

how would losing one of the best supported and now independently financially sustainable clubs that have shown a willingness to grow the nrl by taking games on the road be better for the nrl? It’s not like west’s roosters or bulldogs have done much to grow and therefore to have picked up souths fans

 

[Perth Red]

Alternatively, the joy of seeing clubs like Redcliffe, PNG Hunters, Newtown, etc get their shot at the main game. Fantastic way to build rugby league's footprint too...

Closed league systems are by their very definition are anti-competition compared to open league systems, which actually allow more opportunity for clubs and players across the code and country to get their shot.

Why does any club have the right to be in the first grade comp? Open it up to regular new entrants, force clubs to innovate and improve imo.

Yeh watching Redcliffe get flogged by 50 in front of 7000 people at Redcliffe stadium for a season before they were relegated again would be a joyous thing to see and have tv falling over itself to buy the rights!

 

[MugaB]

I don’t like it, parra needs the guaranteed 4 points playing the broncos

Yes and storm need their 4 points, and 60+ point differential, when they play parra..

Bwahahahaha

 

[MugaB]

Yeh watching Redcliffe get flogged by 50 in front of 7000 people at Redcliffe stadium for a season before they were relegated again would be a joyous thing to see and have tv falling over itself to buy the rights!

That would only happen to the Hunters, and only if Penrith play them, otherwise i think most Qcup teams might be on par with the bottom half of the NRL ladder, purely coz bulldogs, wests and bronx are all basket cases at the moment

 

[Travitoh]

You kick Souths out before Crowe's takeover and none of the above happens. Instead-

• The NRL doesn't rush expansion in the 00s to even the comp, therefore the Titans and all their problems don't happen, and the NRL probably expands sometime in the early 10s with much better options on the table instead.

I could go on, but you get the point.

People don't want to hear it, but if we are being objective the benefits of Souths being kicked back out in 04, thus having one less club in Sydney, probably outweigh the benefits of the Crowe era Rabbitohs, especially when considering that the Crowe era can't last forever...

If Souths remained out of the comp, i believe we'd still have GC as the NRL surely wouldn't have given the AFL a free pass there and we would already have either Perth or Brisbane2 to round the comp at 16.

 

[Spanner in the works]

Yeh watching Redcliffe get flogged by 50 in front of 7000 people at Redcliffe stadium for a season before they were relegated again would be a joyous thing to see and have tv falling over itself to buy the rights!

At least it would actually have consequences and force teams to improve, unlike now, where it's a day's press on getting the spoon, and then we talk about next season as though nothing happened. Open competition is at least challenging and with consequences; I suppose the Perth bid doesn't feel it's quite up to that challenge if a relegation system were put in place, and therefore if it did, wouldn't put a bid forward?

 

[Perth Red]

At least it would actually have consequences and force teams to improve, unlike now, where it's a day's press on getting the spoon, and then we talk about next season as though nothing happened. Open competition is at least challenging and with consequences; I suppose the Perth bid doesn't feel it's quite up to that challenge if a relegation system were put in place, and therefore if it did, wouldn't put a bid forward?

True, dire consequence indeed but someone always finishes bottom and in the NRL its not like the same 2 teams have finished bottom for the last 5 years. Its much more cyclical, partly because you dont have the threat of relegation making it difficult to sign decent players. A shake up of the jnr system and a draft would go much further to seeing the competition even up than relegation imo In SL there is no way a club liek Newcastle that spent a few years near the bottom would be able to sign star players like Pearce, Ponga and Klemmer.

No idea. But if I was a millionaire investor Id be very reluctant to put a lot of money into a start up that had no guarantee of existence beyond its first year.

 

[Pippen94]

Firstly, in my experience most people whom will claim to be a 'fan' of an NRL team (or any sports club in general) don't even regularly watch them on TV. You meet them all the time.

Secondly, by only watching on TV all you are doing is lining broadcasters pockets. So yeah from the club's point of view you might as well not exist because in real terms the vast majority of the money that is made from you watching on TV alone isn't trickling down to them.

With the exception of clubs that have BS memberships (like Souths actually), a person who buys the cheapest membership (or a jersey or whatever) every year is significantly more valuable to the club it's self than a person that only watches them on TV, even if we assume that you watch every single one of your clubs games every season.

This is another area where the AFL kicks the NRL's arse. They have a strong culture of actively supporting their clubs and are more than happy to call out posers whom don't put their money where their mouth is.

Primary source of revenue is broadcasting by a long way.

Canberra gets decent crowds based on population & is stable club but if you started NRL today you wouldn't think of putting team in such small market.

Bigger brands like rabbits, eels & tigers attract audience & create money for sport. Adelaide & Perth are nice dots on maps but NRL would go bankrupt without big Sydney clubs

 

[Perth Red]

Primary source of revenue is broadcasting by a long way.

Not at club level, or at least doesn't have to be. Clubs get $13mill a year from TV. They could easily earn double or triple that from a much larger active fanbase. Most clubs are currently earning less than $7million from their fanbase which is pathetic for a top tier sport.
This is where there is big conflict of interest. NRL needs the big TV $'s to fund everything, clubs need big fanbases to fund themselves. At the moment the two are often in conflict with a lot more emphasis on doing what TV wants, at the detriment of clubs being able to attract new customers.
It'd be like McDonalds telling its franchises they cant open the restaurants at the busiest times when customers want to buy the product because they are being paid to keep them closed by someone else, but to compensate they will give the restaurants a third of what they could be earning.

 

[The Great Dane]

Canberra gets decent crowds based on population & is stable club but if you started NRL today you wouldn't think of putting team in such small market.

Actually if you started fresh Canberra almost certainly would get a run.

A 16 team comp would look something like this-

Sydney x4
Brisbane x2
NZ x2
Melbourne x1
Perth x1
Adelaide x1
Newcastle x1
Canberra x1
GC x1
NQ x1
? x1

 

[The Great Dane]

Maybe, I agree with the 2nd and 3rd points. In hindsight though it was probably a mistake to kick Souths out over another club. If you were rationalizing Sydney now, Souths would top the criteria along with probably Parra.

Sure but in 2004 we didn't know that the Rabbitohs would get extremely lucky and eventually become what they have. All we knew was that they had been perennial strugglers for decades, that had no realistic prospects of coming good, that we had the power to push out.

Also it's inevitable that if Souths had been kicked another club would have taken their place as the big Sydney club.

 

[The Great Dane]

If Souths remained out of the comp, i believe we'd still have GC as the NRL surely wouldn't have given the AFL a free pass there and we would already have either Perth or Brisbane2 to round the comp at 16.

Maybe, but it wouldn't have been rushed through in 05, they would have come in after the GFC, etc, etc.

 

[Perth Red]

If RL was more popular and you were genuinely starting from scratch with no pokie clubs behind them it would probably look more like:
Sydney x5
Brisbane x3
NZ x2
Melbourne x2
Perth x2
Adelaide x1
Newcastle x1

 

[Perth Red]

Sure but in 2004 we didn't know that the Rabbitohs would get extremely lucky and eventually become what they have. All we knew was that they had been perennial strugglers for decades, that had no realistic prospects of coming good, that we had the power to push out.

Also it's inevitable that if Souths had been kicked another club would have taken their place as the big Sydney club.

Why is it inevitable? Surely if it was that easy more would have done it by now? I mean we really only have Souths and Eels that you would call big from an active supporter base point of view in Sydney. Tigers and Dogs have the most potential to get there. the rest are either hamstrung by their suburban existence, geographical barriers or limited population reach

 

[Jim Rockford]

I think it's clear that The Great Dane must have been bashed by a Souths supporter back in school. He's carrying around a pretty big chip on his shoulder.