NRL2 Second Division

[Perth Red]

That

Another under reported reason why P&R struggles here in the UK is a combination of a lost generation of RL fans and apathy shown towards teams below super league due to the treatment of these teams by the RFL.

Theres also been a huge cultural shift amongst younger people who want to be associated with the bigger winning teams in both RL and football as opposed to smaller struggling clubs.

That has always been the case, there has never been a point in modern history the second division has ever drawn decent numbers.

 

[Tigers1986]

That

That has always been the case, there has never been a point in modern history the second division has ever drawn decent numbers.

Why don't you respond to my genuine questions in the Toulose surviving thread?

 

[Brian potter]

That

That has always been the case, there has never been a point in modern history the second division has ever drawn decent numbers.

Compared to other sports maybe but I’m pretty certain that the average attendance figures for the lower leagues pre-super league would have been better than today.

 

[TheGrifter]

Problem is the revenue in the nrl top level is ten times that in the uk, so you’d need a second division that was earning a significant amount to have any hope of not creating the same problems as uk. And that’s before you figure out how you deal with the signing of players issue that blights promoted clubs.

True but the big step-up in quality is between fulltime players training 4-5 times per week etc Vs semi-professionals who have full-time jobs and train two nights a week.

The elite players will always want to play in the top division, that won't change.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Adelaide makes sense!

Realistically expansion to Adelaide/Perth/2nd NZ team is years off. The NRL should focus on getting more NRL games played in these locations.

Perth has been ready for at least the last decade. It has juniors and funding from local businessmen who are passionate about rugby league. The only reason we haven't got a team there is because the game is run by a Sydneycentric administration.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

PR could work in Australia, but you would have to get a strong second division going first.

The reason PR struggles in rugby league in the UK is because the Superleague is full-time professional and the 2nd tier Champtionship is semi-professional. The gap is too big.

There is so much more money in RL is Australia, we could have a full-time professional second division.

The only way it would work in Australia is if we had 24 professional clubs competing across two divisions of 12 teams. With that system you could have a 22 round league where everyone plays each other twice. It would have to be structured so that the salary cap for both divisions is the same. The big advantage of it is more games for PTV and the ability to have matches from both divisions played simultaneously, but more money would be made from having them played separately. With just six games per round we could get rid of the 6pm Friday game and 3pm Saturday game from the top division.

Division 1 aka Super League

Thurs 7.40pm
Fri 7.50pm
Sat 7.50pm
Sun 4pm
Sun 7.50pm
Mon 7.50pm

Div 2 The Championship

Friday 6pm
Sat 2pm
Sat 4pm
Sat 6pm
Sun 2pm
Sun 6pm

 

[Dark Corner]

The only way it would work in Australia is if we had 24 professional clubs competing across two divisions of 12 teams. With that system you could have a 22 round league where everyone plays each other twice. It would have to be structured so that the salary cap for both divisions is the same. The big advantage of it is more games for PTV and the ability to have matches from both divisions played simultaneously, but more money would be made from having them played separately. With just six games per round we could get rid of the 6pm Friday game and 3pm Saturday game from the top division.

Division 1 aka Super League

Thurs 7.40pm
Fri 7.50pm
Sat 7.50pm
Sun 4pm
Sun 7.50pm
Mon 7.50pm

Div 2 The Championship

Friday 6pm
Sat 2pm
Sat 4pm
Sat 6pm
Sun 2pm
Sun 6pm

I wouldn't have Sat 2pm as people are playing/ Running Sport or do they kick off earlier in the junior/amateur game.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I wouldn't have Sat 2pm as people are playing/ Running Sport or do they kick off earlier in the junior/amateur game.

It's not ideal, but if all 12 games across both divisions are to be played in a unique time slot then one game will need to be played at 2pm Sat.

 

[siv]

It's not ideal, but if all 12 games across both divisions are to be played in a unique time slot then one game will need to be played at 2pm Sat.

Will never happen

We are already seeing NRLW pushing out NSW & QLD Cup out of their old pre-game TV timeslots on Fox & Ch9

Broadcasters only want 2 to 3 pre games a weekend

 

[Dark Corner]

Will never happen

We are already seeing NRLW pushing out NSW & QLD Cup out of their old pre-game TV timeslots on Fox & Ch9

Broadcasters only want 2 to 3 pre games a weekend

Bloody women

 

[Perth Red]

Compared to other sports maybe but I’m pretty certain that the average attendance figures for the lower leagues pre-super league would have been better than today.

They weren't, my club was in the second division pre Sl and the crowds at games rarely cracked 1500.

 

[Perth Red]

True but the big step-up in quality is between fulltime players training 4-5 times per week etc Vs semi-professionals who have full-time jobs and train two nights a week.

The elite players will always want to play in the top division, that won't change.

The clubs that have been promoted in UK have all been FT clubs. You cant win the second division on a PT team anymore. The gulf is is in quality, as you say if you're any good you are already in SL and clubs only have a short time after everyone else has signed their squads to build on what they've got. Then they have problems of convincing good players to sign for a club that in all likelihood is going straight back down and putting them out of a job. It just doesn't work unless the wages in second division are a lot closer to the top league than currently. It works better in soccer as there a squillion soccer players so the depth of talent is much greater and those that cant get in EPL are still a decent quality. But lets not pretend it works that well in soccer either, not many clubs get up and stay up long term.

 

[siv]

The clubs that have been promoted in UK have all been FT clubs. You cant win the second division on a PT team anymore. The gulf is is in quality, as you say if you're any good you are already in SL and clubs only have a short time after everyone else has signed their squads to build on what they've got. Then they have problems of convincing good players to sign for a club that in all likelihood is going straight back down and putting them out of a job. It just doesn't work unless the wages in second division are a lot closer to the top league than currently. It works better in soccer as there a squillion soccer players so the depth of talent is much greater and those that cant get in EPL are still a decent quality. But lets not pretend it works that well in soccer either, not many clubs get up and stay up long term.

Lets translate this to NRL

NRL club get a $13 mil grant and operate on a $25 mil budget

NSW & Qld Cup non-NRL clubs who are Tier 2 operate on a $1 mil budget with $200k grant.

There is a dramatic 1:25 scale difference

And its growing with every broadcast deal

 

[Western_Eel]

im not for promotion and relegation, but i do think the NRL clubs reserve teams should be based in non NRL club areas to grow the game.

 

[Colk]

im not for promotion and relegation, but i do think the NRL clubs reserve teams should be based in non NRL club areas to grow the game.

Totally agree with this. That idea is a bit like what they do in minor league baseball. That’s how you should run a second division/reserve grade

 

[xe_kilroy]

The best structure for an NRL-2 imo is what I originally posted. It still has many logistical, financial, player signings flaws, but....

The QLD and NSW Cups are the NRL-2, a new umbrella name for them, but they retain their format. They are classed as "conferences". A North Conference (QLD Cup). A South Conference (NSW Cup).

QLD cup already has a great mix of regions -- PNG, CQ, SC. Rationalize the NSW Cup, get rid of duplicate existing NRL teams, add CC Bears, Perth Pirates, add a NZ team or two, add Campbelltown (if the Tigers won't relocate there fulltime), add a country team, add Adelaide maybe in the future.

The South Conference would have Perth, NZ, CC, regions often cited for possible expansion. The North Conference would have SC, CQ, Cairns and/or PNG, all also often cited as possible long in the future expansion areas. Both would also have 1-2 Brisbane and Sydney clubs.

Anyway, you have like 8 or 10 clubs in each conference with all the usual suspects for expansion in it.

They either play only within their own conference home and away, or a mix of games against both, but then the top four from each play knockouts, then winner of each conference plays off in the NRL-2 grand final. The winner of THAT game promotes to the NRL The wooden spoon of the NRL demotes to the NRL-2.

If say a NSW team promotes and a QLD team demotes, you'd have to have some kind of idea for that.

That NRL-2 grand final would also be an epic contest for TV broadcast (as well as the playoffs). The NRL-2 GF could be played as the curtain raiser to the NRL GF.

There'd have to be some kind of rules/system for player transfers when a team promotes. A way for those clubs to add pro players.

It's not perfect and easy, but the structure itself can work, as long as the ARL can control it, get added funding, sponsorship, devise systems to help prop up NRL-2 clubs and player transfers etc

 

[Perth Red]

The best structure for an NRL-2 imo is what I originally posted. It still has many logistical, financial, player signings flaws, but....

The QLD and NSW Cups are the NRL-2, a new umbrella name for them, but they retain their format. They are classed as "conferences". A North Conference (QLD Cup). A South Conference (NSW Cup).

QLD cup already has a great mix of regions -- PNG, CQ, SC. Rationalize the NSW Cup, get rid of duplicate existing NRL teams, add CC Bears, Perth Pirates, add a NZ team or two, add Campbelltown (if the Tigers won't relocate there fulltime), add a country team, add Adelaide maybe in the future.

The South Conference would have Perth, NZ, CC, regions often cited for possible expansion. The North Conference would have SC, CQ, Cairns and/or PNG, all also often cited as possible long in the future expansion areas. Both would also have 1-2 Brisbane and Sydney clubs.

Anyway, you have like 8 or 10 clubs in each conference with all the usual suspects for expansion in it.

They either play only within their own conference home and away, or a mix of games against both, but then the top four from each play knockouts, then winner of each conference plays off in the NRL-2 grand final. The winner of THAT game promotes to the NRL The wooden spoon of the NRL demotes to the NRL-2.

If say a NSW team promotes and a QLD team demotes, you'd have to have some kind of idea for that.

That NRL-2 grand final would also be an epic contest for TV broadcast (as well as the playoffs). The NRL-2 GF could be played as the curtain raiser to the NRL GF.

There'd have to be some kind of rules/system for player transfers when a team promotes. A way for those clubs to add pro players.

It's not perfect and easy, but the structure itself can work, as long as the ARL can control it, get added funding, sponsorship, devise systems to help prop up NRL-2 clubs and player transfers etc

How would clubs not acting as NRL club reserve grade sides compete with those that are?

How could an NRL reserve grade side be promoted to NRL when their first grade side is already in it?

 

[xe_kilroy]

How would clubs not acting as NRL club reserve grade sides compete with those that are?

How could an NRL reserve grade side be promoted to NRL when their first grade side is already in it?

I said to rationalize the nsw cup, getting rid of duplicate teams and replacing them with clubs that serve other regions.

 

[Perth Red]

I said to rationalize the nsw cup, getting rid of duplicate teams and replacing them with clubs that serve other regions.

so you want say Doggies to move their reserve grade set up to Perth or NZ? After they have all just spent a fortune building C of E's?

 

[xe_kilroy]

so you want say Doggies to move their reserve grade set up to Perth or NZ? After they have all just spent a fortune building C of E's?

No, get rid of those clubs altogether.

Rename Newtown to Sydney Jets. Push the Magpies to Campbelltown full-time or set up a new club there instead of them. Push the Bears to CC Grant entry to Perth Pirates, another NZ city team, biggest nsw country club, Adelaide (future). Thats 8 clubs.

QLD club, also rationalize it down to 8 clubs....PNG, Cairns, CQ, SC, Tweed, and three SEQ/Brisbane clubs from the current comp.

8 and 8.

Still Hostplus QLD Cup and KnockOn NSW Cup, but really Nth and Sth conferences under an NRL-2 umbrella. All the players from all the previous clubs are free to join these new/rationalized clubs.