NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[Perth Red]

That's how it works in nz. They probably wonder why Townsville & Brisbane claim derby as well.

I play touch with two groups made up of ex union players & they all follow both codes

yeh maybe different with kiwis than here and in England. Most of the kids here in perth play union and league.
I’m in favour of nz2 long term but it would be very long term, it’s probably more of a risk than perth given the state of the warriors, small cities and lack of big money backers behind any bid at the moment. Union clubs have been struggling f9r crowds in Super rugby over recent years,
That Christchurch stadium does look like a cracker though!

 

[The Great Dane]

Just a reminder that both the warriors and nzrl dont think it’s a good idea.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/leagu...up-second-nrl-team-in-new-zealand-too-quickly

The Warriors are scared that it'll hurt their bottom line and the NZRL is scared they won't have a say in the matter. So both are just protecting their interests, but their interests and the NRL's interests aren't necessarily the same thing.

Assuming that the broadcasting dollars are there (particularly in NZ) the NRL could afford to run a team in any of the larger cities in NZ for years, and though it might take a generation or so they could carve out a market for that club as well.

Basically, if NRL wants a second club in NZ they have the means to pull it off even if there is no interest in NZ. It might be a bit of a GWS/Suns affair, but they could do it.

 

[Perth Red]

The Warriors are scared that it'll hurt their bottom line and the NZRL is scared they won't have a say in the matter. So both are just protecting their interests, but their interests and the NRL's interests aren't necessarily the same thing.

Assuming that the broadcasting dollars are there (particularly in NZ) the NRL could afford to run a team in any of the larger cities in NZ for years, and though it might take a generation or so they could carve out a market for that club as well.

Basically, if NRL wants a second club in NZ they have the means to pull it off even if there is no interest in NZ. It might be a bit of a GWS/Suns affair, but they could do it.

gven tv in nz is worth less than $20mill a year for all games at the moment do you really think another NZ team would generate the $13millplus extra competition costs a year more that would be needed to cover it, and maybe more if a new club can’t be financially viable and needs a bigger grant?

Is there any loaded potential owners who’ve expressed interest in backing a new club?
Wellington and Christchurch are pretty small cities with limited corporate businesses. Wollongong and gosford aren’t big enough to host an nrl club fulltime yet people seem to think similar sized cities in non rugby league heartland could?

 

[Pippen94]

gven tv in nz is worth less than $20mill a year for all games at the moment do you really think another NZ team would generate the $13millplus extra competition costs a year more that would be needed to cover it, and maybe more if a new club can’t be financially viable and needs a bigger grant?

Is there any loaded potential owners who’ve expressed interest in backing a new club?
Wellington and Christchurch are pretty small cities with limited corporate businesses. Wollongong and gosford aren’t big enough to host an nrl club fulltime yet people seem to think similar sized cities in non rugby league heartland could?

More kiwi specific content enhances deal. Look at what happened to netball league which dissolved because kiwi's wanted to watch local teams.

Nz2 brings in nz TV money. 18th team probably brings in more money (should) here with Aussie broadcasters on basis of extra game. Location doesn't matter. Advantage nz2

 

[Perth Red]

More kiwi specific content enhances deal. Look at what happened to netball league which dissolved because kiwi's wanted to watch local teams.

Nz2 brings in nz TV money. 18th team probably brings in more money (should) here with Aussie broadcasters on basis of extra game. Location doesn't matter. Advantage nz2

Nz deal was rumoured to be less last time, how much of the $15mill are they going to stump up do you realistically think? Agree re 9th game value, so then it becomes where is most strategically important for the nrl. A Nz city of 300k or an australian city heading towards 3 million?
Given an 18th club won’t be likely to be coming in before 2028 hopefully Vlandys and his puppet are gone by then And we can see the nrl move to become a national game within Australia and close the afl revenue gap accordingly,

 

[The Great Dane]

gven tv in nz is worth less than $20mill a year for all games at the moment do you really think another NZ team would generate the $13millplus extra competition costs a year more that would be needed to cover it, and maybe more if a new club can’t be financially viable and needs a bigger grant?

I honestly don't know. However I wouldn't be surprised if there was a broadcaster in NZ willing to pay an extra AU$15mil for another 12 games in NZ, two of which are derbies.

The NRL will figure out whether there's any interest from broadcasters in NZ pretty quickly I'd imagine, and if there isn't they'll almost certainly be forced to change course.

Is there any loaded potential owners who’ve expressed interest in backing a new club?

There've been a few that have expressed interest over the last 25 years, but they've always gone quiet after the NRL has made it clear that it's not interested. If the NRL showed interest, or even pursued investment, I'd be surprised if there wasn't any interest in backing a second NZ club.

But as I said before, the NRL wouldn't need owners or investors to pull it off. If they really wanted a second NZ club they could easily afford to do it all in house and bankroll it for years.

Wellington and Christchurch are pretty small cities with limited corporate businesses. Wollongong and gosford aren’t big enough to host an nrl club fulltime yet people seem to think similar sized cities in non rugby league heartland could?

Personally I'm not convinced that NZ could independently support a second club currently, nor do I think they should get one before larger markets in Australia (such as WA and SA), but it's a different game in NZ.

If you are truly going to crack the NZ market you need representation on both the North Island and South Island at the very least, and if we are being realistic you need at least 3-4 clubs long term.

The only way the NRL is going to make that happen is if they are aggressive and force it to happen no matter the costs, just like the AFL is doing in NSW and Qld, and the quicker they start that process the quicker it'll be over.

 

[mistertaylor]

West Coast travel far more than any team in afl should that be allowed?!

You're missing the point, I'm not complaining about teams that have to hop on a flight every second week. Under the proposed conference system each Sydney team would play outside of Sydney only 4 or 5 times a year, every year. The lack of (air) travel gives them a clear advantage over teams in the other conference.

 

[Pippen94]

Nz deal was rumoured to be less last time, how much of the $15mill are they going to stump up do you realistically think? Agree re 9th game value, so then it becomes where is most strategically important for the nrl. A Nz city of 300k or an australian city heading towards 3 million?
Given an 18th club won’t be likely to be coming in before 2028 hopefully Vlandys and his puppet are gone by then And we can see the nrl move to become a national game within Australia and close the afl revenue gap accordingly,

Why are you comparing to past deals when game would be adding nz content?? I guess keep ignoring that.

Nobody watches NRL in Perth. Fox (or whatever streaming) & FTA won't pay for Perth team. Maximizing eyeballs in places that'll watch game will increase money

 

[Pippen94]

You're missing the point, I'm not complaining about teams that have to hop on a flight every second week. Under the proposed conference system each Sydney team would play outside of Sydney only 4 or 5 times a year, every year. The lack of (air) travel gives them a clear advantage over teams in the other conference.

Don't care - if it's good for game so be it

 

[Pippen94]

I honestly don't know. However I wouldn't be surprised if there was a broadcaster in NZ willing to pay an extra AU$15mil for another 12 games in NZ, two of which are derbies.

The NRL will figure out whether there's any interest from broadcasters in NZ pretty quickly I'd imagine, and if there isn't they'll almost certainly be forced to change course.

There've been a few that have expressed interest over the last 25 years, but they've always gone quiet after the NRL has made it clear that it's not interested. If the NRL showed interest, or even pursued investment, I'd be surprised if there wasn't any interest in backing a second NZ club.

But as I said before, the NRL wouldn't need owners or investors to pull it off. If they really wanted a second NZ club they could easily afford to do it all in house and bankroll it for years.

Personally I'm not convinced that NZ could independently support a second club currently, nor do I think they should get one before larger markets in Australia (such as WA and SA), but it's a different game in NZ.

If you are truly going to crack the NZ market you need representation on both the North Island and South Island at the very least, and if we are being realistic you need at least 3-4 clubs long term.

The only way the NRL is going to make that happen is if they are aggressive and force it to happen no matter the costs, just like the AFL is doing in NSW and Qld, and the quicker they start that process the quicker it'll be over.

Afl approach in NSW & qld is unprecedented in sports & looking at TV ratings & streaming has had very little impact. NRL shouldn't follow this approach

 

[The Great Dane]

You're missing the point, I'm not complaining about teams that have to hop on a flight every second week. Under the proposed conference system each Sydney team would play outside of Sydney only 4 or 5 times a year, every year. The lack of (air) travel gives them a clear advantage over teams in the other conference.

It's a massive commercial advantage for the Sydney clubs as well.

 

[parrawentyfan]

I honestly don't know. However I wouldn't be surprised if there was a broadcaster in NZ willing to pay an extra AU$15mil for another 12 games in NZ, two of which are derbies.

The NRL will figure out whether there's any interest from broadcasters in NZ pretty quickly I'd imagine, and if there isn't they'll almost certainly be forced to change course.

There've been a few that have expressed interest over the last 25 years, but they've always gone quiet after the NRL has made it clear that it's not interested. If the NRL showed interest, or even pursued investment, I'd be surprised if there wasn't any interest in backing a second NZ club.

But as I said before, the NRL wouldn't need owners or investors to pull it off. If they really wanted a second NZ club they could easily afford to do it all in house and bankroll it for years.

Personally I'm not convinced that NZ could independently support a second club currently, nor do I think they should get one before larger markets in Australia (such as WA and SA), but it's a different game in NZ.

If you are truly going to crack the NZ market you need representation on both the North Island and South Island at the very least, and if we are being realistic you need at least 3-4 clubs long term.

The only way the NRL is going to make that happen is if they are aggressive and force it to happen no matter the costs, just like the AFL is doing in NSW and Qld, and the quicker they start that process the quicker it'll be over.

You talk a lot of sense. It is a pity that the NRL hasn't really done anything to foster interest in a 2nd NZ side over the years and has in fact quashed any interest. Orcas exhibit A.

I think NZ could support several teams if there had been the groundwork laid. But as you said it is a pity it would need to come at the expense of important Australian markets such as WA and SA.

Its a good problem we have really. There are probably between 6-10 locations across Australia and NZ which would all be viable but picking one over the other is the trick.

One thing we shouldn't underestimate is the player pool issue. This season has led to people saying the player depth is too shallow. If NZ is done properly it can have a bigger short term hit than other markets such as WA and SA. Which could be appealing to the NRL.

 

[The Great Dane]

Afl approach in NSW & qld is unprecedented in sports & looking at TV ratings & streaming has had very little impact. NRL shouldn't follow this approach

Mate, grassroots RL clubs are pulling out of competitions across NSW because of a lack of players while the Aussie Rules clubs are steadily growing in the same towns and regions. There are undoubtedly parts of NSW right now where for the first time in history there're more senior Aussie Rules players than RL players, and juniors are quickly following the same trend.

Given a generation or two, and a bit of success, GWS will be cemented in it's market, and if the AFL started a club in Canberra today then it'd be at least as big as the Raiders, if not bigger, from day one.

Sure they aren't exactly reaping the rewards in the ratings yet, but that's just one metric when they are playing the long game so that is to be expected, but only the most wilfully blind person could ever suggest that the "AFL's approach" has had very little impact.

 

[Perth Red]

Why are you comparing to past deals when game would be adding nz content?? I guess keep ignoring that.

Nobody watches NRL in Perth. Fox (or whatever streaming) & FTA won't pay for Perth team. Maximizing eyeballs in places that'll watch game will increase money

it’s show’s the diminishing appetite for more content. Currently less than $20mill for EVERY nrl game. How much is 12 more even featuring a nz team going to be worth?
Few watch it (around 10k on fta and probably double that on fox) as it has virtually zero presence here. People aren’t going to get interested in something they don’t get to see.
Storm are most watched team on fox, you could have asked the same question of melbourne folk 20 years ago.

 

[Perth Red]

Afl approach in NSW & qld is unprecedented in sports & looking at TV ratings & streaming has had very little impact. NRL shouldn't follow this approach

they’re in it for the long game. Come back in another 40 years and let’s see where the two codes are. They have already taken over the one advantage we had, tv audiences, pss on us in crowds and active fanbase and generate 50% more revenue than us. They have a clear strategy to be “Australia’s game”. Meanwhile we twiddle our thumbs and worry about building 15k seater suburban grounds in Sydney and can’t decide if another brisbane team is a good idea lol

 

[The Great Dane]

This season has led to people saying the player depth is too shallow.

The pool isn't too shallow, it just seems that way.

The real problem is that there're teams in the competition right now who's reserves in many, if not most, positions are better than the starters at many clubs, so for whatever reasons the cap simply isn't working properly, and as such the talent isn't being spread even close to evenly anymore.

Add to that the better part of an NRL team that we are exporting to RU and the SL every year on average and there's a ton of talent around, we've just got to figure out how to keep it in the NRL.

One of the other things would should be doing is trying to siphon more out of other sports (particularly RU), not just in Australia but world wide, which is something we're terrible at traditionally.

If NZ is done properly it can have a bigger short term hit than other markets such as WA and SA. Which could be appealing to the NRL.

Yeah nah.

Even at there worst teams in Perth or Adelaide would almost certainly be significantly more valuable than teams in Christchurch, Wellington, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Otago, etc.

The numbers on offer in WA, SA, even a second club in VIC, are simply out of NZ's league, but that doesn't mean that there isn't any value in growth in NZ as well.

 

[baselinepanther]

That's how it works in nz. They probably wonder why Townsville & Brisbane claim derby as well.

I play touch with two groups made up of ex union players & they all follow both codes

red is not in favour of another NZ side

he has an agenda
id stop arguing with him

 

[baselinepanther]

they’re in it for the long game. Come back in another 40 years and let’s see where the two codes are. They have already taken over the one advantage we had, tv audiences, pss on us in crowds and active fanbase and generate 50% more revenue than us. They have a clear strategy to be “Australia’s game”. Meanwhile we twiddle our thumbs and worry about building 15k seater suburban grounds in Sydney and can’t decide if another brisbane team is a good idea lol

hahaha

another 40 years
theyve had 40 already

And TV execs in NSW & QLD still feel the need to put Peter Rabbit on TV before Australia's game buddy

ln 40 years , look for .. come back in 40 years

yep
120 years is the charm hahahahaha

 

[baselinepanther]

i have grave fears for this conference system
Raiders fans for example don't want to see the Cowboys Titans & warriors every year

they want to see the Dragons , Souths & Parramatta
Same in Newcastle id say

Our new conference rivals have little traditional support in Canberra & will hurt our crowds somewhat

We are not the USA
we should not be trying to be it either

 

[MugaB]

i have grave fears for this conference system
Raiders fans for example don't want to see the Cowboys Titans & warriors every year

they want to see the Dragons , Souths & Parramatta
Same in Newcastle id say

Our new conference rivals have little traditional support in Canberra & will hurt our crowds somewhat

We are not the USA
we should not be trying to be it either

Yes this is why a conference setup, cannot just be all interstate in one and all sydney centric in another, besides if thats where this is headed then when we are ready for 19th and 20th teams in a decade or two, one will either be another interstate team like ipswich or perth, and the other will be bears in gosford, which probably isn't where we should be headed...
If conference system is the way they want it, then Sydney must be split in half, which ensures 2 things, one conference doesn't get a lopsided pool of talent playing in a less travelling sydney conference, thus cost is down via travel and overnight stays, and players turnaround rests, And two= a interstate conference that has less visiting brands from sydney like dragons, souths or parramatta that brings a big draw card for most interstate teams will nor be able to happen moreso if the comps aren't split fairly