What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

NRLW TV ratings killing AFLW

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
6,037
Mate, the pre-existing support base is where 95% of NRLW supporters are going to come from irrespective of where they play these games. The fundamental problem is that women's sport is rubbish.

Look at the AFLW, those first and second year bumper crowds have fallen off and now the vast majority of games have attendances between 500 and 3000. Just like when roller derbies reignited around 2010 and the crowds quickly dissipated when the novelty wore off or people no longer felt obligated to go. Males watch AFLW more than women do because even women don't give a shit about women's sport.
Women's sport isn't rubbish, it's just marketed to the wrong people.

Both, e.g., pop and metal have their niches within the music market, but imagine the reaction if you took a metal band and put it in front of a major pop act's audience... Most women's sports have effectively put themselves into that position of being the metal band trying to open for Rihanna, and as a result they're being booed off the stage and failing to carve out their own niche in the market.

What women's sport should be doing is targeting pre-existing niche audiences that aren't serviced by the major men's competitions in their sport, and using those audiences as a base from which to grow.

Take the AFLW for example; imagine if instead of launching with the teams they did, the AFLW's foundation clubs had looked something like this-

1. Fitzroy FC
2. South Melbourne Bloods
3. Norwood Redlegs
4. West Perth Falcons
5. Tasmania
6. NSW team
7. QLD team
8. Geelong/Ballarat/Bendigo/???

Sure, that league probably wouldn't have drawn the fanfare that the AFLW initially did in 2017, however it wouldn't have suffered from the novelty effect in the same way that the AFLW has, as to those fanbases the AFLW would be largest exposure that their club's get. In other words, to those clubs/fanbases the AFLW would have been the headliner, and not the opening act that it is to the average AFL fan.
 

The Penguin #6.

Juniors
Messages
485
Women's sport isn't rubbish, it's just marketed to the wrong people.

Both, e.g., pop and metal have their niches within the music market, but imagine the reaction if you took a metal band and put it in front of a major pop act's audience... Most women's sports have effectively put themselves into that position of being the metal band trying to open for Rihanna, and as a result they're being booed off the stage and failing to carve out their own niche in the market.

What women's sport should be doing is targeting pre-existing niche audiences that aren't serviced by the major men's competitions in their sport, and using those audiences as a base from which to grow.

Take the AFLW for example; imagine if instead of launching with the teams they did, the AFLW's foundation clubs had looked something like this-

1. Fitzroy FC
2. South Melbourne Bloods
3. Tasmania
4. Norwood Redlegs
5. West Perth Falcons
6. Tasmania
7. NSW team
8. QLD team

Sure, that league probably wouldn't have drawn the fanfare that the AFLW initially did in 2017, however it wouldn't have suffered from the novelty effect in the same way that the AFLW has, as to those fanbases the AFLW would be largest exposure that their club's get. In other words, to those clubs/fanbases the AFLW would have been the headliner, and not the opening act that it is to the average AFL fan.
I don`t agree, you could name the teams whatever you want and the crowds would still have fallen away, only with naming them after existing clubs they had an initial bump.
The problem is that women don`t have the explosive muscle strength of males. The good news is that lack of explosive strength is far more obvious - and detrimental to the spectacle - in fumbleballw than it is NRLW. I genuinely watch it (fumbleballw) sometimes because it is so funny.
 

bileduct

Coach
Messages
17,832
Women's sport isn't rubbish, it's just marketed to the wrong people.

Both, e.g., pop and metal have their niches within the music market, but imagine the reaction if you took a metal band and put it in front of a major pop act's audience... Most women's sports have effectively put themselves into that position of being the metal band trying to open for Rihanna, and as a result they're being booed off the stage and failing to carve out their own niche in the market.

What women's sport should be doing is targeting pre-existing niche audiences that aren't serviced by the major men's competitions in their sport, and using those audiences as a base from which to grow.

Take the AFLW for example; imagine if instead of launching with the teams they did, the AFLW's foundation clubs had looked something like this-

1. Fitzroy FC
2. South Melbourne Bloods
3. Norwood Redlegs
4. West Perth Falcons
5. Tasmania
6. NSW team
7. QLD team
8. Geelong/Ballarat/Bendigo/???

Sure, that league probably wouldn't have drawn the fanfare that the AFLW initially did in 2017, however it wouldn't have suffered from the novelty effect in the same way that the AFLW has, as to those fanbases the AFLW would be largest exposure that their club's get. In other words, to those clubs/fanbases the AFLW would have been the headliner, and not the opening act that it is to the average AFL fan.

Mate, I'm telling you, these audiences you think that are going to rise up out of nowhere just do not exist.

AFLW have been deliberately scheduling their matches away from the men's competition to make it stand on its own, and once the hype wore off and the free tickets ran out the crowds dwindled. And that's when they're only charging adults ($10) for entry. They've never had matches as curtain openers to men's competition games as far as I am aware, including their finals series.

The fact is, and this is proven by athletic records worldwide, your top level female athlete is about as good as top level 14/15 boys at their respective sports. That's reality. That's why they put the US and Aus women's soccer teams up against high school boys for training, because that's the level they are at. You would see better quality games free of charge when your local junior teams play at a community sports field within walking distance, and anyone that has watched more than 5 seconds of the atrocious rubbish that is the AFLW knows that.

It's great that women now have so many new pathways to becoming professional athletes, but those competitions will never be taken seriously by the vast majority of people.
 

gUt

Coach
Messages
16,147
Women's RL is a much better spectacle both relative to the men's and on its own merits than what I've seen of AFLW.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
6,037
Mate, I'm telling you, these audiences you think that are going to rise up out of nowhere just do not exist.
Mate, these audiences don't need to rise up out of anywhere as they already exist. It's just that women's sport has pretty much universally decided to forgo engaging them to instead try to ride on the coat-tails of larger pro-teams, which is a marketing tactic that's universally failed as far as I can tell.

Look, you're not really engaging with anything I'm saying, and I don't buy that women's sport will always fail commercially simply because you keep asserting that it will. It's not impossible, people like you are just coming at the problem from the wrong angle (so are the people whom try to shame people into supporting women's sport BTW), and have set your standards of what's achievable way too low because of it.

The NRLW, AFLW, etc, are never going to be as big as their male equivalents, but they could be independently sustainable, even highly profitable give time, with better management and marketing strategies.
 

The Penguin #6.

Juniors
Messages
485
The NRLW, AFLW, etc, are never going to be as big as their male equivalents, but they could be independently sustainable, even highly profitable give time, with better management and marketing strategies.
With all due respect mate broad sweeping statements like " with better management and marketing strategies " are so easy to type and are a load of big noting hot-aired hooey.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
6,037
you could name the teams whatever you want and the crowds would still have fallen away
I never said otherwise...

The novelty effect is a given, but if they'd planned things better that initial fall would have been significantly more gracious, and they'd have a firmer support base now than they currently do.

Besides, there's a lot more to the AFLW's struggles than just marketing and branding. They expanded way too quickly for example, which was also a by-product of marrying the women's game to the men's BTW, but I digress.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
6,037
With all due respect mate broad sweeping statements like " with better management and marketing strategies " are so easy to type and are a load of big noting hot-aired hooey.
I've already expanded on what those marketing strategies could, and IMO should, have been. I'm not going to take the time to spell them out in every post just for the slow kids at the back of class.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,136
I find it interesting watching how history played out on the womens game

1921 - on the back of post WWI the first games played

There was a surge in womens sport pre WWII before a lot fell away due to the war

Thenin 1975 we saw it make a appearance at NSWRL level on game day

Yet it took till early 90s for borough style comps to appear under the banner if the WRL. But just as it was getting NRL alignment through clubs like Norths, Parra, Souths and Wests SL War broke out and killed the game in Sydney as neither ARL or SL wanted to commit. While Canberra, Illawarra and Brisbane grew. These all were standalone fixtures and like you said looked more like U14 style events the way they were reported

Then from 2005 we saw a return without NRL clubs at NSWRL level. But even with Interstate and Test matches it was still small

The return of NRL clubs via NSWRL-W and then NRLW and marketing interstate games as SOO seems to have broken through

I suspect its on the back of the threat of the AFLW and Rugby 7s, and the success of soccer and cricket that we have money and a critical volume of players

So should the womens game be standalone or scheduled with the mens game?

At SOO level it clearly should be stadalone at small boutique venues, though not having a rep round will hurt them

We also need the mid year Australia v NZ or Great Britain tour test match/s. These will be also better as standalone fixtures

At NRLW is a challenge, playing the NRLW GF on NRL GF day is very good exposure, so I can see the NRLW fixture being a long term NRL pre game as the comp grows

But the death of NRL Touch as a NRL pregame due to the huge 45 minute game gaps shows that the 45 minute break will always remain as a issue

Not to mention when should reserve grade style games be played - eg RG - NRLW - NRL or NRLW - RG - NRL

I dont know which answer will work but fan habits will decide a lot
 

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,407
I think it's important for NRLW to keep its traditional links to established teams like the Eels. NRLW is not a poor spectacle at all, a lot of good judges thought the NRLW GF was the best game on the day and the passion the women had wearing the jersey was quite something to watch. Once enough clubs are represented would love to kick off the NRLW with a stand alone magic round maybe around origin 2 when the NRL clubs are typically all not playing and would love for it to play on past October.
 

mongoose

First Grade
Messages
9,589
I find it interesting watching how history played out on the womens game

1921 - on the back of post WWI the first games played

There was a surge in womens sport pre WWII before a lot fell away due to the war

Thenin 1975 we saw it make a appearance at NSWRL level on game day

Yet it took till early 90s for borough style comps to appear under the banner if the WRL. But just as it was getting NRL alignment through clubs like Norths, Parra, Souths and Wests SL War broke out and killed the game in Sydney as neither ARL or SL wanted to commit. While Canberra, Illawarra and Brisbane grew. These all were standalone fixtures and like you said looked more like U14 style events the way they were reported

Then from 2005 we saw a return without NRL clubs at NSWRL level. But even with Interstate and Test matches it was still small

The return of NRL clubs via NSWRL-W and then NRLW and marketing interstate games as SOO seems to have broken through

I suspect its on the back of the threat of the AFLW and Rugby 7s, and the success of soccer and cricket that we have money and a critical volume of players

So should the womens game be standalone or scheduled with the mens game?

At SOO level it clearly should be stadalone at small boutique venues, though not having a rep round will hurt them

We also need the mid year Australia v NZ or Great Britain tour test match/s. These will be also better as standalone fixtures

At NRLW is a challenge, playing the NRLW GF on NRL GF day is very good exposure, so I can see the NRLW fixture being a long term NRL pre game as the comp grows

But the death of NRL Touch as a NRL pregame due to the huge 45 minute game gaps shows that the 45 minute break will always remain as a issue

Not to mention when should reserve grade style games be played - eg RG - NRLW - NRL or NRLW - RG - NRL

I dont know which answer will work but fan habits will decide a lot
yeah but didn't AFL invent womens sport only a few years ago? everyone knows women all over the country were shackled to the kitchen, never to set foot in a sporting facility until a few white men on Collins st in expensive business suits and with an expensive education behind them made it ok for women to play sports and by sports I mean AFL.
where does this fit in?
 

Iamback

First Grade
Messages
9,441
I never said otherwise...

The novelty effect is a given, but if they'd planned things better that initial fall would have been significantly more gracious, and they'd have a firmer support base now than they currently do.

Besides, there's a lot more to the AFLW's struggles than just marketing and branding. They expanded way too quickly for example, which was also a by-product of marrying the women's game to the men's BTW, but I digress.

What sport that men and women play are women on the same level as far as interest?

WNBA has been whinging for years now that they earn far less than the men,
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
6,037
What sport that men and women play are women on the same level as far as interest?

WNBA has been whinging for years now that they earn far less than the men,
The better question is what relevance does your question have to anything that I've said?

FYI, the answer is absolutely f**king nothing.
 

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,298
What sport that men and women play are women on the same level as far as interest?

WNBA has been whinging for years now that they earn far less than the men,
Tennis. They get very comparable crowds and TV ratings.

Most of the Olympic sports the womens version is just as popular if not more so.

Volleyball is another obvious example.

You’ll notice that these sports treat the mens and womens games as equals not also rans.

The truth is when it comes to most teams sports womens teams are a late after thought. They’re fighting against 100+ Years of tradition whilst being totally amateur with little money to back them.

The mens comps are hugely popular comps which people have supported for generations and it’s ingrained to do so. They have a shit load more money AND marketing behind them. It’s extremely hard for any startup womens comp to compete with that. That’s before you get into all the people who want to talk down womens sport as being garbage (just look at this site for a good example).

It’s an uphill battle and one that requires effort and money to make it work. Tennis has shown that if you get it right the benefits are enormous.
 

Iamback

First Grade
Messages
9,441
Tennis. They get very comparable crowds and TV ratings.

Most of the Olympic sports the womens version is just as popular if not more so.

Volleyball is another obvious example.

You’ll notice that these sports treat the mens and womens games as equals not also rans.

The truth is when it comes to most teams sports womens teams are a late after thought. They’re fighting against 100+ Years of tradition whilst being totally amateur with little money to back them.

The mens comps are hugely popular comps which people have supported for generations and it’s ingrained to do so. They have a shit load more money AND marketing behind them. It’s extremely hard for any startup womens comp to compete with that. That’s before you get into all the people who want to talk down womens sport as being garbage (just look at this site for a good example).

It’s an uphill battle and one that requires effort and money to make it work. Tennis has shown that if you get it right the benefits are enormous.

Tennis isn't equals though. Less sets as opposed to Mens so you still have a pay get

No doubt it will get there, Atm hopefully the NRL and TV come up with a schedule that allows a decent return for the NRLW and can build from there
 

Iamback

First Grade
Messages
9,441
Tennis. They get very comparable crowds and TV ratings.

Most of the Olympic sports the womens version is just as popular if not more so.

Volleyball is another obvious example.

You’ll notice that these sports treat the mens and womens games as equals not also rans.

The truth is when it comes to most teams sports womens teams are a late after thought. They’re fighting against 100+ Years of tradition whilst being totally amateur with little money to back them.

The mens comps are hugely popular comps which people have supported for generations and it’s ingrained to do so. They have a shit load more money AND marketing behind them. It’s extremely hard for any startup womens comp to compete with that. That’s before you get into all the people who want to talk down womens sport as being garbage (just look at this site for a good example).

It’s an uphill battle and one that requires effort and money to make it work. Tennis has shown that if you get it right the benefits are enormous.

Tennis isn't equals though. Less sets as opposed to Mens so you still have a pay get

No doubt it will get there, Atm hopefully the NRL and TV come up with a schedule that allows a decent return for the NRLW and can build from there
 
Top