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NSW Cup restructure

Tigers1986

Juniors
Messages
897
Canberra could have gone in as Canberra but wanted to be based in metro Sydney for ease of travel for their RG players, hence the deal with Mounties.

NSW Cup doesn't need a restructure. It could do with a few teams added in, perhaps Fiji, Newtown as a sole entity (bringing back Cronulla on their own), then some country sides such as Bathurst and Dubbo or the like. Would give it a state-wide feel as opposed to the Sydney hub that it is atm.
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
I want them to go back to 3 grades on the same day. I used to really enjoy that.

Under 20s
Reserve Grade
First Grade

I don't know why they can't keep Under 20s as it is, but they should make each NRL club have a reserve grade side too, and reserve grade should be the game played just before the first grade game. The new NSW Cup comp could be like the present Ron Massey Cup, and it could include teams from Fiji, NSW country areas, etc.
 
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siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
I want them to go back to 3 grades on the same day. I used to really enjoy that.

Under 20s
Reserve Grade
First Grade

I don't know why they can't keep Under 20s as it is, but they should make each NRL club have a reserve grade side too, and reserve grade should be the game played just before the first grade game. The new NSW Cup comp could be like the present Ron Massey Cup, and it could include teams from Fiji, NSW country areas, etc.

Yes thats the idea

NSW Cup once NRL clubs are playing National Reserve Grade can finally evolve into what everyone wants it to be

You have Wenty Newtown Norths Mt Pritchard Wyong Illawarra today

Promote a few RM Cup teams like Windsor St Marys Cabramatta

Then add Fiji and 2 NSW Country divisions

But I would like to see Adelaide developed better
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
- too many players are quiting the game at age 21
- FG players are not interested to play at park venues
I assume you have some stats to back this up?
- clubs field players who are not RM Cup standard
Wot?
- fans cannot see players working their way through the ranks

Of course they can. NSW and Qld cup games are not closed to the public
- players are being forced to not be one clubmen
Again, wot?
- training is not mirroring FG and impacts the anility of players to step up in FG
Bullshit. All of the top 25 players, sometimes top 33 train with FG.
- the breadth of the game has shrunk in NSW and has flow effects into SOO and Australia test football
Wot? How so? Please post the stats
- how many players career is shortened because they just dont eant to llay for another club ?
lol Where is there evidence of this tripe. Players want to play football. If they are sad cause they need to play for "another club" then they are in the wrong profession
In QLD your junior club is your QLD Cup club

In NSW your junior club is your NRL club not always your NSW Cup club
No it isnt. Some of the old Brissy teams have jnr systems but others dont. Exactly the same as the NSWCup

Canberra players having to play for a Parramatta district club is pretty dumb if you ask me

Of late NSW clubs have been moving away from this jersey swap with Canterbury Penrith Wests-Tigers Newcastle migrating back to a RG structure

So? It works for them but thats no reason to force everyone to do it.

Even Nth Qld setup their Townsville based RG team

No they didnt. T'ville Brothers put the bid in and the Cowboys backed them. They still hold feeder relationships with the Cutters and the Pride

Again, I see no reason to change things just because some fans want to see 3 games on match day. Fact is its expensive to run a national RG, especially if it means inserting another layer into the top level of the game as well as driving the current NSW and Qld cup teams down further

It wont happen nor does it need to
 
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siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
There are plenty of examples where NSW Cup games are in direct clash with NRL fixtures

And there are plenty of funds to run both National RG and NSW Cup

Also as a fan I have given up on going to two different venues on the same weekend many times on different days

I think this year I only had one opportunity to 3 grades and then stuck in traffic between venues and missed 40 min of U20s

When you travel 1.5h to a game it gets beyond a joke
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
Right, so in other words you pretty much made up 99% of the reasons why a National RG is so necessary

Like I said, the QRL will never ever agree to it and rightly so. The NSWRL can do what it likes
 

siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
So this is all about QRL for you

And not about how to develop players for the FG in the NRL across Australia
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
So this is all about QRL for you

And not about how to develop players for the FG in the NRL across Australia

Nope. IMO the current structure works well in both states. Tough to argue that its not really when we see plenty of guys making the step up through the NSW and Qld cup systems. In fact, if you introduce a national RG you'll have less opportunity for players to come through cause you will be reducing the number of clubs at that level

Do they definitely need to agree for it to happen???

Of course they do, it affects their comp and they have a key stake. Why would they not?
 
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alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
Of course they do, it affects their comp and they have a key stake. Why would they not?

it wouldn't destroy the qld cup though. it would just mean that the qld cup and nsw cup would be 3rd grade comps, or do queenslanders want there not to be a national reserve grade comp so they can keep qld cup as a 2nd grade comp, so they can glorify it

i would have thought those making the decision would include the 16 nrl clubs, QRL, NSWRL, and that only a certain amount of votes to have the national reserve grade comp would be needed
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
it wouldn't destroy the qld cup though. it would just mean that the qld cup and nsw cup would be 3rd grade comps, or do queenslanders want there not to be a national reserve grade comp so they can keep qld cup as a 2nd grade comp, so they can glorify it

i would have thought those making the decision would include the 16 nrl clubs, QRL, NSWRL, and that only a certain amount of votes to have the national reserve grade comp would be needed

If you think ripping out a tonne of players and pushing the comp down another tier wouldnt effect the QRL clubs bottom line as well as threaten their existence then you need to have a re think

Of course the QRL vote could be over ruled but it would be devisive for the NRL to do so. Id hostly be surprised if the NSWRL would be any more condusive to the idea either
 

siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
If you think ripping out a tonne of players and pushing the comp down another tier wouldnt effect the QRL clubs bottom line as well as threaten their existence then you need to have a re think

Of course the QRL vote could be over ruled but it would be devisive for the NRL to do so. Id hostly be surprised if the NSWRL would be any more condusive to the idea either

So how many actual players would go on average from a QLD Cup club ?

Maybe 3 each. This would easily be counteracted by allowing more opportunities for 21 year olds

In NSW it would only take two seasons for the next wave of U20s U18s to fill in the ranks

Lets remember that U23s U21s grades were scrapped in NSW when U19s U17s U15s were changed to adopt the QLD U18 U16 model
 

siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
I suppose the fact that Mounties is the wealthiest licenced club in Australia has no relevance.

No issue with the better Parramatta and Penrith A grade clubs wanting to play at a higher level

But not replace a NRL reserve grade team

How many local Canberra fans would travel 3 hours to see their players ?

Do Canberra players even turn for training? 6h round trip 4 times a week is almost impossible if you work or study in Canberra
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
So how many actual players would go on average from a QLD Cup club ?

Maybe 3 each. This would easily be counteracted by allowing more opportunities for 21 year olds

In NSW it would only take two seasons for the next wave of U20s U18s to fill in the ranks

Lets remember that U23s U21s grades were scrapped in NSW when U19s U17s U15s were changed to adopt the QLD U18 U16 model

3, 5,10,20....it really doesnt matter how many player they will lose when

a. You are taking the cream of the crop, and
b. You are pushing the comp another tier lower

Sure some juniors will fill the ranks but the good ones will just go up and the plod will come down

All of that means lower crowds, less sponsorship and less merch sales for the clubs
 

siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
3, 5,10,20....it really doesnt matter how many player they will lose when

a. You are taking the cream of the crop, and
b. You are pushing the comp another tier lower

Sure some juniors will fill the ranks but the good ones will just go up and the plod will come down

All of that means lower crowds, less sponsorship and less merch sales for the clubs

Why dont Queensland NRL clubs just withdraw from the NRL

They are taking the cream from the QLD Cup

That should solve it
 

rightleftin

Juniors
Messages
1,500
No issue with the better Parramatta and Penrith A grade clubs wanting to play at a higher level

But not replace a NRL reserve grade team

How many local Canberra fans would travel 3 hours to see their players ?

Do Canberra players even turn for training? 6h round trip 4 times a week is almost impossible if you work or study in Canberra

No Canberra fans travel to Sydney just like no Canberra fans turn up when Mounties play 4 games a season in Canberra with the NRL. The fact is all NRL grounds are empty prior to the main game.

All Canberra players train with the full time squad and they have one run with the Mounties guys late in the week. This is the same situation at all clubs with feeders.
 

siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
Everyone is so worried about the impact to NSW Cup if the NRL teams revert to National Reserve Grade and player drain

NRL clubs sign 25 players. 19 are usually tied up FG. Lets assume 2-4 injuries or suspensions. That leaves 2-4 Top 25 players playing NSW Cup per club.

For clubs 100% aligned Penrith Newcastle Canterbury Manly Wests-Tigers Warriors - no impact. They just simply withdraw from NSW Cup

For the others

Mounties and Wenty run reserve grades do to replace 4 players will be very easy for them

The rest Norths Newtown Wyong Illawarra already operate stand alone and would have much trouble filling the gap for 4 players

So where do Souths St Merge Easts Cronulla Canberra get their National RG players from ? You will find that other than contracted Top 25 they will mainly come from their older or overage U20s players

So the bigger deal is filling the void at NSW Cup level

We already have Fiji and two country teams wanting to play

Wests Magpies would jump at the chance to come back into this level

That 10 teams already

Without offering Windsor Ryde-Eastwood St Marys or Cabramatta a chance to return

Or even working with Perth or Adelaide

If we are concerned in QLD at the impact in Townsville - bring back Wests Brothers Toowomba or introduce a Darwin team

You will see that National RG is less radical approach for everyone across Australia

A provides a opportunity to grow the game and is player base rather than shrink it in a way that has already been rejected by half of the NRL clubs
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
You have a very simple yet unrealistic view of things mate

I'll guarantee you one thing, we will never see a full national RG comp again. Ever. The reasons have been spelled out to you countless times yet you only seem to think it's player numbers that are holding it back
 
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