NSW Cup restructure

[XXXX Cap]

The Queensland Cup works well because :

- it is Queensland wide (Toowoomba being the only major centre currently not represented - work is being done to change this)

- the clubs all have their own identity and supporters. The followers might also follow an NRL team but at a Queensland Cup game the crowd is dressed in the Q Cup colours and merchandise. Clubs like Wynnum, Redcliffe and Easts still have a very tribal basis to their support.

- the issue of NRL players in teams is a relatively minor issue. The basis of all the teams is their direct signings, they also accommodate a few NRL players each who can't make their NRL team (and in my view are thus by definition Q Cup players only). My team Wynnum this year had Stagg, Rockley and Eden who had Broncos contracts. Mitchell Dodds played a couple of games when returning from injury (he is a Wynnum boy anyway).

- it is not seen as NRL Reserve Grade. It is a serious competition in its own right, none of the games are played as curtain raisers to NRL games.

Interestingly, with Broncos, Melbourne and NQ still left in the NRL this year, 42 of the 51 players in their squads have played in the Queensland Cup at some stage, with 16 of them playing in it this year.

 

[alien]

The Queensland Cup works well because :

- it is Queensland wide (Toowoomba being the only major centre currently not represented - work is being done to change this)

- the clubs all have their own identity and supporters. The followers might also follow an NRL team but at a Queensland Cup game the crowd is dressed in the Q Cup colours and merchandise. Clubs like Wynnum, Redcliffe and Easts still have a very tribal basis to their support.

- the issue of NRL players in teams is a relatively minor issue. The basis of all the teams is their direct signings, they also accommodate a few NRL players each who can't make their NRL team (and in my view are thus by definition Q Cup players only). My team Wynnum this year had Stagg, Rockley and Eden who had Broncos contracts. Mitchell Dodds played a couple of games when returning from injury (he is a Wynnum boy anyway).

- it is not seen as NRL Reserve Grade. It is a serious competition in its own right, none of the games are played as curtain raisers to NRL games.

Interestingly, with Broncos, Melbourne and NQ still left in the NRL this year, 42 of the 51 players in their squads have played in the Queensland Cup at some stage, with 16 of them playing in it this year.

Do you agree the QLD Cup would still work well if there was a national reserve grade comp?

 

[siv]

I beleive that NSW Cup would also still work well if not better with a National RG

 

[XXXX Cap]

Do you agree the QLD Cup would still work well if there was a national reserve grade comp?

If you are putting a grade in between NRL and Queensland Cup, obviously the standard of player is going to be diminished in the Q Cup. You would take out any NRL contracted players plus you would need some more current Queensland Cup level players in a Broncos/Titans/Cowboys/Storm Reserve Grade team.

The Under 20s would come back into the mix but there wouldn't be that many up to either the Reserve Grade or Q Cup level. Even in the year or two after they come out of Under 20 teams, many are still not Q Cup standard at the moment.

There would still be that club loyalty from fans. Also players are loyal to clubs - Wynnum this year had ten 75+ game players in their squad.

Nobody is going to stop going to Queensland Cup games and start going to watch Reserve Grade games.

 

[CC_Roosters]

If you are putting a grade in between NRL and Queensland Cup, obviously the standard of player is going to be diminished in the Q Cup. You would take out any NRL contracted players plus you would need some more current Queensland Cup level players in a Broncos/Titans/Cowboys/Storm Reserve Grade team.

The Under 20s would come back into the mix but there wouldn't be that many up to either the Reserve Grade or Q Cup level. Even in the year or two after they come out of Under 20 teams, many are still not Q Cup standard at the moment.

There would still be that club loyalty from fans. Also players are loyal to clubs - Wynnum this year had ten 75+ game players in their squad.

Nobody is going to stop going to Queensland Cup games and start going to watch Reserve Grade games.

We should be focusing on competitions that matter and can be considered elite rather than stockpiling every pro player in the country into a national RG comp of which a large proportion would be focused on sydney to the detriment of other non NRL centres. A massive no to national RG imo

 

[The Partisan]

I think the Qld Cup has the bonus of having several regional centres that boast a population able to support a home team.

In fact it is possibly the only truly semi professional State wide comp in the country between League and AFL,and maybe even soccer. (Tassie may be another, but it is very small geographically.)

Historical competitions between these regions - such as the Country Championships from the 50/60/70's - where NQ would compete against CQ, Toowoomba, Wide Bay, Ipswich - also adds a layer consciousness to the older fans. ( I certainly remember them from the 70's !)

Not sure if any NSW Regional Centres outside the Newcastle - Woolongong coridoor have either a population base or historical RL attachment to support a 2nd tier team..

No Reserve Grade for me. Qld Cup is just great to watch ...both live and on FTA tele.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Do you agree the QLD Cup would still work well if there was a national reserve grade comp?

It really depends what you mean by "National Reserve Grade"...

If you mean an U20 style 16 team comp for open age players, then QLD Cup would suffer massively.

If you mean expanding the State Championship into a National Conference-based competition with the QLD Cup teams at its core, then the competition would prosper.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I think the Qld Cup has the bonus of having several regional centres that boast a population able to support a home team.

In fact it is possibly the only truly semi professional State wide comp in the country between League and AFL,and maybe even soccer. (Tassie may be another, but it is very small geographically.)

Historical competitions between these regions - such as the Country Championships from the 50/60/70's - where NQ would compete against CQ, Toowoomba, Wide Bay, Ipswich - also adds a layer consciousness to the older fans. ( I certainly remember them from the 70's !)

Not sure if any NSW Regional Centres outside the Newcastle - Woolongong coridoor have either a population base or historical RL attachment to support a 2nd tier team..

No Reserve Grade for me. Qld Cup is just great to watch ...both live and on FTA tele.

As long as the competition can keep costs low for the teams by limiting the required travel (i personally favour smaller conferences that then come together for a finals series) then we could have teams in all of the smaller regional towns of NSW...

Tweed Heads, Hunter region, Canberra/Queanbeyan, Illawarra region, Albury, Coffs, Wagga, Port Maquarie, tamworth, Orange, Bowral, Dubbo, Bathurst, Shoalhaven.

All of these areas claim at least 30k residence; if NSW was to introduce as many of these as possible (attach them to local Universities or Bowling Clubs) it could split the State into 2 divisions (North/South of Sydney; 4 or 5 Sydney teams in each). They could limit cost of travel and bring back to community side of RL that the NRL has lost.

It would be great to have the semi-pro/amateur teams in these small centres (that will never get NRL teams) and give them the chance to compete on the National stage on GF day in the State Championship match.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Lol.

 

[CC_Roosters]

As long as the competition can keep costs low for the teams by limiting the required travel (i personally favour smaller conferences that then come together for a finals series) then we could have teams in all of the smaller regional towns of NSW...

Tweed Heads, Hunter region, Canberra/Queanbeyan, Illawarra region, Albury, Coffs, Wagga, Port Maquarie, tamworth, Orange, Bowral, Dubbo, Bathurst, Shoalhaven.

All of these areas claim at least 30k residence; if NSW was to introduce as many of these as possible (attach them to local Universities or Bowling Clubs) it could split the State into 2 divisions (North/South of Sydney; 4 or 5 Sydney teams in each). They could limit cost of travel and bring back to community side of RL that the NRL has lost.

It would be great to have the semi-pro/amateur teams in these small centres (that will never get NRL teams) and give them the chance to compete on the National stage on GF day in the State Championship match.

Na the centres.emntioned except the obvious like newy are too small. What could work but only if there was a second tier grant from arlc revenue would be representative sides from the bush with each tied to an nrl club. I.e western division being a prime example. They could be baaed out of say bathurst for training and admin but play games there, orange, dubbo and mudgee. I say Bathurst as its the closest of the four centres to sydney so its not out of the question for say penrith to have them as a team to place players.

All the nsw cup needs is some investment and to spread its wings out of sydney to replicate the Qld cup. I would say max 6 teams in sydney in the second tier none of which should have nrl branding. Utilise norths, newtown, wenty as current but replace wests tigers with western suburbs (important foundation brand to maintain in the south west, while balmains branding is kept alive in the nrl). Not sure on the two other clubs in sydney, any ideas folks?

Norths- rabbitohs
Wenty- eels
Newtown- sharks
Western subrubs- tigers
Central coast/wyong- roosters
Illawarra- dragons
Western rams- panthers
Bulldogs?
Manly?
Newcastle (rebels branding)
Bidgee bulls- raiders (based at wagga)

 

[alien]

It really depends what you mean by "National Reserve Grade"...

If you mean an U20 style 16 team comp for open age players, then QLD Cup would suffer massively.

If you mean expanding the State Championship into a National Conference-based competition with the QLD Cup teams at its core, then the competition would prosper.

i meant each nrl club having their own reserve grade team, instead of using other clubs as feeder clubs

 

[alien]

We should be focusing on competitions that matter and can be considered elite rather than stockpiling every pro player in the country into a national RG comp of which a large proportion would be focused on sydney to the detriment of other non NRL centres. A massive no to national RG imo

and that would be the nrl. don't try to tell me that the qld cup is elite and so much better than the nsw cup. the nrl should be focusing on making 2nd grade the strongest it can be, and closest to nrl first grade as possible, which will be better for the fringe first graders, which will then improve the quality of the first grade teams, instead of keeping qld cup 2nd tier, just so it can be glorified

 

[XXXX Cap]

The Queensland Cup and NSW Cup probably don't vary too much in standard. The big difference is the identity of the clubs.

NSW Cup plays its games as curtain raisers to NRL and thus automatically labels them as being second tier standard.

Queensland Cup clubs stand in their own right - they are significant in their own communities and the players are proud to be playing in the top grade of these clubs.

Pride, Hunters, Mackay, Central, Ipswich, and Sunny Coast are the biggest sporting teams in their locations and get significant local following. Wynnum, Easts, Tweed, Burleigh, Norths, Souths Logan and Redcliffe have decades of tradition and history and are all proud clubs with passionate fans.

Watching on TV, there just doesn't seem a lot of passion from the few hundred scattered around big stadiums watching NSW Cup games. That can't help its profile as a significant competition.

 

[siv]

Na the centres.emntioned except the obvious like newy are too small. What could work but only if there was a second tier grant from arlc revenue would be representative sides from the bush with each tied to an nrl club. I.e western division being a prime example. They could be baaed out of say bathurst for training and admin but play games there, orange, dubbo and mudgee. I say Bathurst as its the closest of the four centres to sydney so its not out of the question for say penrith to have them as a team to place players.

All the nsw cup needs is some investment and to spread its wings out of sydney to replicate the Qld cup. I would say max 6 teams in sydney in the second tier none of which should have nrl branding. Utilise norths, newtown, wenty as current but replace wests tigers with western suburbs (important foundation brand to maintain in the south west, while balmains branding is kept alive in the nrl). Not sure on the two other clubs in sydney, any ideas folks?

Norths- rabbitohs
Wenty- eels
Newtown- sharks
Western subrubs- tigers
Central coast/wyong- roosters
Illawarra- dragons
Western rams- panthers
Bulldogs?
Manly?
Newcastle (rebels branding)
Bidgee bulls- raiders (based at wagga)

This model was tried and rejected by more than half of NSW NRL aligned clubs. See previous post for listing

The other stupid issue is the huge divide between NSW-CRL and NSWRL administration

 

[siv]

The Queensland Cup and NSW Cup probably don't vary too much in standard. The big difference is the identity of the clubs.

NSW Cup plays its games as curtain raisers to NRL and thus automatically labels them as being second tier standard.

Queensland Cup clubs stand in their own right - they are significant in their own communities and the players are proud to be playing in the top grade of these clubs.

Pride, Hunters, Mackay, Central, Ipswich, and Sunny Coast are the biggest sporting teams in their locations and get significant local following. Wynnum, Easts, Tweed, Burleigh, Norths, Souths Logan and Redcliffe have decades of tradition and history and are all proud clubs with passionate fans.

Watching on TV, there just doesn't seem a lot of passion from the few hundred scattered around big stadiums watching NSW Cup games. That can't help its profile as a significant competition.

This is why National RG and NSW Cup are the answer

QLD seem to co-exist pretty well at U20s level - where there is National U20s and QLD FOGS

 

[XXXX Cap]

Whatever occurs, as long as the current model for the Queensland Cup doesn't get stuffed up just to fix NSW problems.

As if that would ever happen. :sarcasm:

 

[alien]

NSW Cup plays its games as curtain raisers to NRL and thus automatically labels them as being second tier standard.

no they usually have the under 20s before the first grade game. the nsw cup games are usually at other grounds and are often on different days too

 

[alien]

nsw cup grand final today is live on fox sports 1 at 4pm. is the qld cup grandfinal on today??? i couldn't see it on channel 9 or on foxtel

 

[Tigers1986]

It's on at 4pm as well. It's on Channel 9 live in Queensland, or streamed on the QRL website.

It's replayed on Fox Sports at 10:30pm on Wednesday night. Sucks that we can't see it down here in NSW on TV. Could've put it on GEM.

 

[alien]

The Queensland Cup and NSW Cup probably don't vary too much in standard.

well there would be more nrl squad players in the nsw cup than in the qld cup, and the non nrl players in the qld cup wouldn't be better than the non nrl players in the nsw cup, otherwise they would be in nrl squads