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NSW Cup restructure

siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
Well it isnt finances anymore

Just people who adopt a cant do attitude are now the only thing holding back National RG and a evolution of NSW Cup
 

rightleftin

Juniors
Messages
1,500
Most NRL clubs sign 30-35 players. There are 14 Canberra players in the Mounties side this week. There are similar numbers in other NRL feeder teams.
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
every first grade team used to have a reserve grade team and an under 21s team (under 23s before that), whilst nsw and qld had there own third grade comps, which were fine. these days the grant from the nrl is much bigger, and covers a much larger percentage of the salary cap, so that helps with any transport financial issues. the nrl could always increase each club's grant a little. the difference between under 20s and first grade is too great. some players can make the direct jump, but a lot often need to come through nsw cup or qld cup to get used to playing against men. so the idea is to make the 2nd grade comp as strong as possible. there are some nsw cup and qld cup teams who don't get nrl squad players, and those amount of teams would increase if we include fiji and nsw country teams, but in a national reseve grade comp, they would all have nrl squad players. in the national reserve grade comp, the teams would be a little stronger, and maybe a little better run. those teams would also play right before the first grade games, which is how it should be
 
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rightleftin

Juniors
Messages
1,500
NSW Cup minor premiers, Mounties have failed to qualify for the grand final after poor goal kicking (1/6) stopped them from running down Newcastle 26-30.

The Mounties side boasted more than 400 NRL games spread among 10 players. In the season as a whole Mounties fielded 18 players with NRL experience.

Clint Newton now has the opportunity to go out winner for Newcastle when they take on the Wyong Roos, who have plenty of players from the Sydney Roosters full time squad.
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
NSW Cup minor premiers, Mounties have failed to qualify for the grand final after poor goal kicking (1/6) stopped them from running down Newcastle 26-30.

The Mounties side boasted more than 400 NRL games spread among 10 players. In the season as a whole Mounties fielded 18 players with NRL experience.

Clint Newton now has the opportunity to go out winner for Newcastle when they take on the Wyong Roos, who have plenty of players from the Sydney Roosters full time squad.

i said SOME teams
 

siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
Some deluded jokers think that NRL will improve if U20s reverts to only being a 9 round juniors comp or scrap it all together with no change to anything else

And scraping clubs that have strong junior development areas should not play reserve grade

Eg Penrith Newcastle Canterbury Manly Wests-Tigers

And fans like a Newcastle boy who waved his flag knowing there is opportunities for his reserve grade players to not only win a RG title but also watch a favourite NRL or U20s player in action playing in club colours
 
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Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
You two muppets are dreaming

Any increase in $$ the clubs are getting goes straight into their FG rosters. Clubs are struggling more than ever and will resist having to feed, house and travel another squad every game day

Please present me with some, any evidence that the clubs actually want a national RG? Or even the NRL for that matter?

Fact is they dont, its only the few fans who want to see a curtain raiser on game day which bugger all will turn up for. Check the crowds for the U20s every week.

Id also like to hear exactly why the current structure doesnt work in your eyes? How actually reducing the number of teams across the 2nd tier comps would mean more opportunities for fringe Fgers?
 
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siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
Fans turn up but hate the 45 min grass growing sessions

I have already listed clubs that have reverted back from non NRL aligned NSW Cup style arrangement back to proper RG. In fact most of these clubs play 3 grades on game days also

Windsor back to Penrith
Central Coast back to Newcastle
Sydney Bulls back to Canterbury
Balmain-Ryde back to Wests-Tigers
Vulcans back to Warriors
Sunshine Coast back to Manly (at the request of the NSWRL)

Even Cronulla ran a team up until last year playing 3 grades on game day

All of these were driven by NRL club managements bar Manly

All other NRL - NSW Cup arrangements were about saving money in a early Easts-Newtown model nothing more

All non NRL clubs playing NSW Cup, bar Norths were promoted from Bundy Cup/RM Cup

Illawarra was created because the Shellharbour arrangement wasnt working also

In the end money doesnt seem to be a issue for over than 70% of NSW NRL clubs

The downside is that the Bears may need to follow Wests into RM Cup in what should evolve into the real NSW Cup going forward

Sounds like miss piggy is out of touch
 
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siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
And lets add Nth Qld who adopted a NSW multi tier club arrangement

With their U16s U18s in national championship final

And their U20s RG and FG all 1 game away from the big day
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
Fans turn up but hate the 45 min grass growing sessions

I have already listed clubs that have reverted back from non NRL aligned NSW Cup style arrangement back to proper RG. In fact most of these clubs play 3 grades on game days also

Windsor back to Penrith
Central Coast back to Newcastle
Sydney Bulls back to Canterbury
Balmain-Ryde back to Wests-Tigers
Vulcans back to Warriors
Sunshine Coast back to Manly (at the request of the NSWRL)

Even Cronulla ran a team up until last year playing 3 grades on game day

All of these were driven by NRL club managements bar Manly

All other NRL - NSW Cup arrangements were about saving money in a early Easts-Newtown model nothing more

All non NRL clubs playing NSW Cup, bar Norths were promoted from Bundy Cup/RM Cup

Illawarra was created because the Shellharbour arrangement wasnt working also

In the end money doesnt seem to be a issue for over than 70% of NSW NRL clubs

The downside is that the Bears may need to follow Wests into RM Cup in what should evolve into the real NSW Cup going forward

Sounds like miss piggy is out of touch

So those NRL club run NSW cup sides fly outside of state do they? They currently go to Qld, Melb? No, they dont. The only plane trips they need to make is over to Auckland occasionally. Much lower running costs

Most of the clubs have sighted traveling costs as the reasoning behind getting rid of NYC and look what happened, come 2017 it will be gone

Nth Qld dont have a multi tier club arrangement, what exactly are you rabbiting on about. They feed into the Balck Hawks, Cutters and Pride

Looks like Kermit is a little unsure of whats actually going on around him
 

siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
All ARL/NRL clubs have been flying RG and U20 teams teams across Australia and NZ since 1995 on and off. Thats 30 years

Now they want NSW teams to also fly to Fiji as well as NZ. Just as QLD Cup now fly to PNG.

Melbourne U16/18 teams have also been flying for more than 5 years now. So travel costs dont seem to be much of a problem

Add the big TV deal in the last few years mean finances of the game as a whole are available as I said before money for travel is not the issue

National RG/U20 means travel costs stay at NRL club level and NRL grants can be adjusted to address this

Grants at NSW and QLD Cup levels should also occur. Like you said travel costs are a issue for these small clubs
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
Any increase in $$ the clubs are getting goes straight into their FG rosters. Clubs are struggling more than ever and will resist having to feed, house and travel another squad every game day

the grant can be increased a bit, but the salary cap staying the same
 

Mr Chook

Juniors
Messages
174
All non NRL clubs playing NSW Cup, bar Norths were promoted from Bundy Cup/RM Cup

Wyong never played in either the Bundy or Ron Massey Cups. They joined NSW Cup after a falling out with the Newcastle comp officials.
 

siv

Bench
Messages
4,927
Wyong never played in either the Bundy or Ron Massey Cups. They joined NSW Cup after a falling out with the Newcastle comp officials.

Yes this is the one anomoly when the rest of the CC bigger clubs joined the Bundy Cup - The Entrance, Erina, Woy Woy and Ourimbah. Wyong went to Newcastle A grade instead

But before Wyong played NSW Cup at this period there was the CC RIP/Storm/Centurians at that level. Wyong was represented by the CC district team(yes they played in both CC and Newcastle district comps) This CC rep team played many games from Moree Breen Oval, Wyong's home ground
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
You can continue to say that finance is no boundary and that clubs have run and traveled RG teams in the past, however its not what the current clubs want. The NRL needs them on board if it is indeed their plan, which i personally think its not, to implement a national RG comp.

I know for a fact that the 3 Qld teams dont want to field RG teams and are more than happy with the feeder relationship into the QCup. The QCup teams are also very happy with the current system

So at the end of the day we have a couple of punters who want it so they get to see a RG side on match day. There is no other parties that want a national RG comp that i can see. No stories in the press calling for it, no releases from the NRL that its in their plans. Nothing. Nada. Zip
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
this is an article from a couple of years ago. noddy has the right idea!

Brett Kimmorley calls for national reserve grade competition to bolster quality NRL stars

Former Australian halfback Brett Kimmorley has called for the introduction of a national reserve grade competition along with the Under 20’s to help bolster the quality of future NRL players.

Following an influx of English imports with more to arrive next season, many are concerned the Australian game is suffering from a lack of depth and the Canberra assistant coach says he has the solution.

“The Holden Cup is a great learning curve for clubs,” Kimmorley said on NRL360.

“You get a two or three years apprenticeship scheme before you have to invest big money into some of these kids. On record two or three of your players make it through to NRL anyway.

“Elite players get fast tracked anyway… the elite player is always going to make it.

“I think there should be a national reserve grade competition but you should still have your under 20’s.”

Kimmorley suggested that the ‘National reserve grade’ competition would mirror the NRL while the NSW Cup and Intrust Super Cup in Queensland continue to satisfy the needs of top-tier country rugby league.

“We’re putting all these CEO’s and administration in place in the NRL to make sure the game gets better in five years we need to make sure the talent is better in five years for the product to get more money as well,” he said.

“I think there is a massive drop from when they come out of the Under 20’s and go into the NSW Cup/reserve grade format and they go back to park football, there’s not a stepping stone to go through to the NRL.”

The discussion was sparked by the announcement that a group of English players were poised to join the competition while NRL clubs target more as potential recruits for next season and beyond.

In the past only a few English players have succeeded in Australia but more and more players are deciding to test themselves in the NRL. While Kimmorley does not detest the English players’ arrival he has questioned the Australian stock.

“The game is getting better over here,” Kimmorley said.

“The dollar over there isn’t as great as it used to be… if you’re talking $1 million, that would be a carrot a decent pommy would be willing to come to Australia (for) and test yourself for a small period of time.

“I think the depth and the structure need to be changed in the whole NRL.”

http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl...uality-nrl-stars/story-fn2mcuj6-1226633452813
 

MarkC

Juniors
Messages
446
I don't see why we need a national reserve grade comp.
QCup is working well, we need something more like that in NSW Cup.
As I see it NSW Cup teams should be feeder clubs for NSW based NRL sides.
NSW Cup should be mainly played as the lead up NRL matches and the season should roughly align.
We can see have a couple of independent NSW Cup sides that are not aligned with an NRL team, but I suspect they would be at a disadvantage. But the easy solution for that is for the NRL to assign part of the grant to each club to NSW cup, independent teams would just get that chunk of money.
I think we also need a NSW U20's and QLD U20's comp in sync with the NSW Cup.
Occasionally a U20's could be played as a lead up to an NRL match, it could be left to the home side to decide the lead up match.
I would like to see some sort of play off between NSW Cup/ QCup teams and the end of the season or a national knock out comp at the start of the season with NSW Cup + QCup teams. They could reduce travel costs by having a seeded draw with the first 2 rounds guaranteed to to be in the home state.
I am not sure of the numbers but assuming there are around 14 teams in each comp.
That is 28 teams ...... after 1 round 14 teams are left - 2 teams need to get a 2nd chance on some basis so 16 teams.
After 2 rounds 8 teams left for interstate travel leg, 4 QLD + 4 NSW.
Then another 3 weeks to wrap it up meaning the knockout is 5 rounds unless my maths is wrong.
The U20's and regular QCup / NSW Cup could start after the knockout.
Or if it works better we can have the knockout at the end of the season.
 
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Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
So 1 article from Noddy, who is a grade A nonce at the best of times

Nothing from any of the clubs and nothing from the NRL.

Keep dreaming gentlemen
 
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