NZ Expansion

[Lockyer4President!]

Doesn't the NRL make more than all of the SANZAR nations combined?

I guess the NZRU should be happy that the NRL isn't as aggressive as the AFL when it comes to new markets.

 

[strong_latte]

Well, of course it's not going to happen "automatically", but success in a place like Melbourne, where people were actively hostile to League and played a game with few transferable skills demonstrates it can be done wouldn't you say?

What if a Christchurch side linked it's Jnr structure with a couple big NRL sides in the way Melbourne did? If the NRL provided an incentive - and they would given the precedent - then it's certainly something that could happen.

I agree with you regarding the need for greater investment in the existing structure, but the Canterbury Rugby League is already home to 8 senior Rugby League teams - the same number as a place like the Illawarra, which is considered League heartland. Sure, more depth needs to be built, but with Christchurch getting a NSW Cup side soon, that is happening.

I honestly don't see why you're so negative regarding this prospect. There's definitely potential there - it just needs to be approached with similar methods that were used in a place like Melbourne.

Agree 100%.

Having a look at a lot of the other comments here it seems a lot of people are getting sidetracked by pointless arguments about NRL and NZRU incomes (hint: they're both doing well but they're also not the only ones competing for our talent so which is stronger is kid of irrelevant), but fundamentally there is a successful blueprint for how to expand into foreign territories and a place like Canterbury NZ isn't likely to pose a greater challenge than a place like Melbourne if all the pieces are put in place beforehand.

I don't quite think it would require as much prep and investment as you do though RoosTah. Melbourne had pretty well no senior comp when the Storm came in from what I understand, so I think if the NRL struck a dea with a collection of NRL feeder clubs they could get it off the ground sooner.

Once that happened the team would generate its own momentum and local numbers for clubs would naturally increase.

 

[RoosTah]

Agree 100%.

Having a look at a lot of the other comments here it seems a lot of people are getting sidetracked by pointless arguments about NRL and NZRU incomes (hint: they're both doing well but they're also not the only ones competing for our talent so which is stronger is kid of irrelevant), but fundamentally there is a successful blueprint for how to expand into foreign territories and a place like Canterbury NZ isn't likely to pose a greater challenge than a place like Melbourne if all the pieces are put in place beforehand.

I don't quite think it would require as much prep and investment as you do though RoosTah. Melbourne had pretty well no senior comp when the Storm came in from what I understand, so I think if the NRL struck a dea with a collection of NRL feeder clubs they could get it off the ground sooner.

Once that happened the team would generate its own momentum and local numbers for clubs would naturally increase.

Cheers mate. Yeah, I seem to be interrupting what is apparently an all consuming debate about who has the bigger dick - the NRL or NZRU. You're right on that point - it's not particularly important who's richer, there'll be scope for talent and development for both games simply down as a product of the fact that more pro teams means more pro pathways for young players.

Good to see a couple people here can see the real argument though.

 

[The Great Dane]

Where did I say another team was bad? I have never said that. I took aim at your pathetic claims about a new team being able to buy all the juniors because the NZRU was in financial strife, which is blatantly wrong.

I'm not really sure which direction the conversation has gone since I've been gone, so excuse me if I rehash something that has been discussed thousands of times.

Firstly no one has claimed that a new team would be able to buy all the juniors in NZ, this would be an impossibility no matter how rich the NRL is.

Secondly whether or not the NZRU is in financial strife makes no difference to the argument!

Whether or not they are making money or losing it doesn't really matter because one thing is for certain, they aren't making anywhere near as much as the NRL are!

And because of the fact that the NRL has a much. much larger financial arsenal at it's disposal, it has the ability to build infrastructure (RL academies, boarding, fields, etc etc) and programs (cheaper registration and insurance for juniors, elite training camps, etc) in it's target areas at a scale and density that the NZRU simply can't compete with due to financial restraints.

Add to that that the NRL will now have at least double the spots available for players to go professional in the NRL and the fact that the average pay for NRL players will soon be much, much more then the NZRU average pay and you'll see a large influx of juniors that would have tried to go pro in RU 10 years ago choosing to to take contracts with the NRL because an average player can earn what an elite player in RU can earn in RL without having to travel to either France or Japan.

So if the NRL chooses to expand to NZ again then there'll be no problem attracting enough juniors to support a second club, the problem will be retaining all the best players that RL has developed when the NZRU tries to poach best players them once they have established themselves as top RL players.

 

[RoosTah]

Dane,

Yep, that's pretty much on the money. One caveat: the NRL has greater financial resources, but it also has further to spread them than the NZRU, so the development of all that extra infrastructure will require Smith and the rest of the ARLC to effectively prioritise NZ over other areas.

Given Dave Smith's comments regarding Canterbury being a key area for the NRL though, that may well happen.

One other thing about the infrastructure, the NZRU doesn't have to develop much because it has already spent 100 years developing it. The best option for League would effectively be to piggyback off the strong schools Union networks and just generate semi-pro pathways for the senior clubs outside it. In a place like Canterbury they could send management teams over there to help them grow their senior competition and also provide funding to attract promising union players to the clubs that the NPC sides have missed.

That would be a lot less time consuming and easier.

 

[Warrior@Heart]

I think if the NRL were serious about expanding rugby league in NZ they would have SG ball teams representing both Wellington and Canterbury. Surely there would be a few kids lining up to play league if they essentially got the opportunity to travel to Australia every second week. I know that since Perth has been fielding a SG ball team some good young players have received NYC contracts and in other cases (Waqa Blake, Curtis Rona) even progressed all the way to NRL. Wellington & Christchurch are both closer to NSW than Perth is and I'm unsure of how much it costs to travel there and back but surely the pros would outweigh the cons especially since Wellington & Christchurch already supply players to the NRL without much of a pathway. Now I don't necessarily think these 2 provinces should receive an NRL team straight away but I do think out of all the other bids these 2 franchises have the most potential if built properly from the ground up starting from SG ball to NSW Cup and then eventually transitioning into fielding competitive NYC & NRL teams. Hopefully the NRL could maybe work with these cities and their councils to try and work together on a plan to move the sport foward.

 

[Perth Red]

Well if talk is anything to go by 2018 will see the NRL income go up by around $70mill a year. Even given a rise in club grants of say $30mill that leaves a large annual chunk of money they can do what they wish with. If they consider NZ important for development is yet to be seen.

 

[Te Kaha]

I'm not really sure which direction the conversation has gone since I've been gone, so excuse me if I rehash something that has been discussed thousands of times.

Firstly no one has claimed that a new team would be able to buy all the juniors in NZ, this would be an impossibility no matter how rich the NRL is.

Really that seemed the implication from so many of some posters posts

Secondly whether or not the NZRU is in financial strife makes no difference to the argument!

It did to one poster

Whether or not they are making money or losing it doesn't really matter because one thing is for certain, they aren't making anywhere near as much as the NRL are!

They don't need to be. They have more than enough to compete.

And because of the fact that the NRL has a much. much larger financial arsenal at it's disposal, it has the ability to build infrastructure (RL academies, boarding, fields, etc etc) and programs (cheaper registration and insurance for juniors, elite training camps, etc) in it's target areas at a scale and density that the NZRU simply can't compete with due to financial restraints.

Wrong. The NZRU doesn't need to build the infrastructure. Its already in place. And the "big arsenal" wont be able to be employed because of the self interest of Australian clubs. Not to mention the fact that the Australian League public will never allow such a huge investment in NZ while the Aussie "bush" isn't being helped.

Add to that that the NRL will now have at least double the spots available for players to go professional in the NRL and the fact that the average pay for NRL players will soon be much, much more then the NZRU average pay and you'll see a large influx of juniors that would have tried to go pro in RU 10 years ago choosing to to take contracts with the NRL because an average player can earn what an elite player in RU can earn in RL without having to travel to either France or Japan.

That's an assumption without any knowledge of the country and what "playing for the All Blacks" means. Not to mention you are assuming that the NZRU isn't going to raise players wages or that there wont be the corporate support available.

So if the NRL chooses to expand to NZ again then there'll be no problem attracting enough juniors to support a second club, the problem will be retaining all the best players that RL has developed when the NZRU tries to poach best players them once they have established themselves as top RL players.

There is already enough juniors to support a second club. There just isn't any infrastructure to keep them there. That needs to be made first..

 

[UNION TROLL]

1. Doesn't the NRL make more than all of the SANZAR nations combined?
2. I guess the NZRU should be happy that the NRL isn't as aggressive as the AFL when it comes to new markets.

1. Correct.....yet teams are on their arses all over the NRL looking for bail outs and helping hands.
2. The AFL have been here for 2 years.......it looks like the options on their 3rd and other years won't be exercised as they couldn't even half fill the stadium with free tickets this year. As for the NRL being "aggressive"? NZ II is a no brainer if the game wants to expand........but does it?

As other have said, NZII would need some serious infrastructure put in place around the country. This years Wellington Comp is 8 teams with 3 clubs essentially fielding Union players and getting hammered week in week out.
We lost 4-74 last week and this week we have the league leaders visiting....there's not the schools comp here to develop the players we need to grow the game

 

[Saint Doc]

Perth NIB stadium 10 games, average 15299
Wellington Westpac stadium 7 games, average 21927

 

[Perth Red]

Last game nib stadium sold out
Westpac stadium 52% full



Mind you given a number of existing clubs are avg less than 10K this year I dont think either city would struggle to be one of the better supported NRL teams!

 

[RoosTah]

^^ This is true. Wellington appears to be showing steadily declining interest, whilst in Perth it's increasing. Also, Wellington has a population similar to Canberra, whilst Perth is close to 2 million and ranks as our 4th largest city

 

[Warrior@Heart]

Was watching an Under 16s game on the weekend and the standard of the game over here in Perth has improved dramatically since I moved here back in 09. It's definitely at a similar standard to league in Auckland difference is there are less clubs and it actually surprised me how fast and structured the game was whereas Auckland play a more slow power based game with barely any playmaking. Perth definitely needs a team, I'd love Wellington to get a team but I feel like RU is about to hit another golden era which may just counter act any momentum the kiwis currently have.