NZ V Aus Third ODI

[Iafeta]

As for quoting his series average of being above 45, thats laughable. Really is. You can't judge his series performance on that. 90 runs off 30 overs, now THAT you can judge. Every time he has come on, he's either changed momentum completely or in the second ODI helped save Fleming from digging himself a hole for at least 20 overs. Surely you can see that.

As I said in the other thread, YES, I can see that. Economy is vital in one-day cricket. Vettori is capable of doing a job in that regard. But there is nothing laughable about noting the fact that he only took 2 wickets. You can't deny that a few more wickets would have really helped us out, especially today. And you can't possibly claim that this series proved that Vettori was a real wicket-taking threat.

Thierry, there is ONE bowler in the New Zealand line up who can trouble Australia.

Vettori can keep Australia quiet, but very rarely can he rip through them. If we get a green wicket in either of the tests, any one of our mediocre seamers could plausibly do just that. It's been proved time and again.

To not understand his importance to this team, PARTICULARLY in the test series coming up is unreal. If you are going to rely on 3-4 medium pacers, and a very average off break bowler in Wiseman, there'll be 500-600 plus scores racked up with monotonous regularlity.

Stats don't always tell the true story. Without Vettori's accuracy and guile it'd be same old same old and be extremely comfortable for Australia, not that it isn't already.

How can Vettori keep Australia's score down IN A TEST if he doesn't take wickets? This has really got me confused.

You're incredible. You really are.

FFS, look at it realistically. Fine, he has 2 wickets in the series, he had an LBW turned today on Clarke that was plumb, two turned down in the first ODI off Hayden and Symonds that were plumb. So I'd take the 18 runs per wicket and 3 runs per over that he deserved. But I guess we need to look at the "stats" sides of things, not how the bloke is actually bowling. Games aren't won by computers, by form and actual events. Look at the half chances the bloke is creating. There are truckloads of them, there's hurried defensive strokes to the arm ball, there's players not guaging his spin properly, players not able to jump down the track to him with any real confidence etc.

Vettori is exerting a truckload of pressure on these blokes, the other's aren't, without him in the side they are just going to smack it around at 4.5 runs per over in the test matches without a care in the world.

You can't tell me the medium pacers are looking ANYTHING LIKE taking wickets. Wiseman won't either. He's not in Vettori's league. So you have average trundler after average trundler throwing pies down, you're going to cop a flogging. The only one who is exerting pressure (and guess what - cricinfo.com isn't telling you this, you have to physically watch the game and see HOW he is bowling) is Daniel Vettori. Sooner or later these half chances and debatable umpiring decisions will go his way, but rest assured, he is the only New Zealand bowler capable of either controlling the run rate, or taking wickets in a cluster.

These Australian's are three or four classes above any other team we've had here recently in batsmanship, they are not cannon fodder sitting ducks like the other tourists in regards to the pitches. They are an incredibly adaptable side. The chances of them being caught on a green seamer and being rolled are incredibly low. If that happens, bet your bottom dollar McGrath/Gillespie/Lee and co will roll New Zealand for 100-150 less then what Australia got, if it comes down to a pace bowler shoot out New Zealand is in for a hiding. New Zealand knows that, they won't prepare dodgy wickets this time around, they'll be hoping for a decent track and the half chance Vettori can roll through them, or New Zealand can save some test matches.

This lad is bowling beautifully, great flight, guile, arm ball is going well with great deception, they aren't totally picking him. Compared to the other trundlers, he's worth his weight in gold. He is New Zealand's only hope.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

It's all right Iafeta, lots of kiwi SUPPORTERS know the value of dan.

And many an Aussie can respect that.

I'm a Kiwi supporter.

Shyte even Aussies will give dan a wrap, we see his danger.

Obviously, because you only get to see his performance against you, which are usually good. I've actually watched his entire career, against every team.

 

[Iafeta]

It's all right Iafeta, lots of kiwi SUPPORTERS know the value of dan.

And many an Aussie can respect that.

I'm a Kiwi supporter.

Shyte even Aussies will give dan a wrap, we see his danger.

Obviously, because you only get to see his performance against you, which are usually good. I've actually watched his entire career, against every team.

You've just said it yourself, "Obviously, because you only get to see his performance against you, which are usually good."

Thank you. You've finally realised it.

Your initial argument was Vettori's potential loss would be of no consequence to New Zealand approaching a test series against Australia. Finally you've admitted, "performance against you [Australia], which are usually good."

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

But I guess we need to look at the "stats" sides of things, not how the bloke is actually bowling. Games aren't won by computers, by form and actual events

Games aren't won by computers. They are won by numbers. And numbers lead to statistics. They certainly aren't won by a bowler who has flight, guile, whatever else, but can't take wickets i.e. rack up the necessary numbers i.e. rack up the necessary statistics.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Your initial argument was Vettori's potential loss would be of no consequence to New Zealand approaching a test series against Australia. Finally you've admitted, "performance against you [Australia], which are usually good."

Performances IN NEW ZEALAND. In that case, I would rather base my predictions on his numerous past matches in NZ, as opposed to merely against Australia. He last played them in tests 5 years ago, and he turned in one tremendous performance (the best of his career) on a VERY spin friendly wicket. Obviously if we prepared a pitch like that, he would come into his own. On a TYPICAL New Zealand test pitch however, he won't. This is borne out not only by statistics, but by watching the games over the years. And trust me, I watch every ball of every game possible.

 

[Mr Angry]

And trust me

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


There simply is not enough emoticons, you opinion (on cricket)is not worth shyte.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I know you are, but what am I?

 

[douglasallen91]

i can't comment as it will be misconstrued as an excuse

 

[NRL Guy]

Personally I'm just glad the NZ coach has finally shut up after that disgraceful blaming it all on the Aussies slowing down the first match in the series, when it was actually spectators behaving like animals which achieved that. These last two matches have been incident free and NZ has still been flogged.

 

[douglasallen91]

Personally I'm just glad the NZ coach has finally shut up after that disgraceful blaming it all on the Aussies slowing down the first match in the series, when it was actually spectators behaving like animals which achieved that. These last two matches have been incident free and NZ has still been flogged.

yet the player that was most affected by the crowd having fun glenn macgrath(just like in aussie - where it use to be frequent stopages when the opposition fielded) (can't say what happened this vb series as i didn't see it) says he had no problems with the crowd, ponting called him over to have a conference and WASTE TIME and therefore try to change the momentum of the game.

just like the brent webb rule was introduced because he was supposely only taking that long to give the warriors forwards a rest when that was the routine that he was taught and used all the time except once.

 

[douglasallen91]

Personally I'm just glad the NZ coach has finally shut up after that disgraceful blaming it all on the Aussies slowing down the first match in the series, when it was actually spectators behaving like animals which achieved that. These last two matches have been incident free and NZ has still been flogged.

i'm glad that ricky ponting and matthew hayden have shut up about the crowd enjoying themselves. one fan doing something wrong and now the whole of the country is one of the worst ever. haha yeah right

 

[douglasallen91]

i wanted to know one thing. does andrew symonds not like brett lee.

cause when the crowd was shouting lee's a w****r, symonds was clappng along with the tune for a while

 

[ozbash]

gee, i missed it.
was at the speedway and the announcer said we lost 5 wickets in 1, 12 lap, 1/4 mile track race :lol:

thats gotta be a record.

look after the chadlee-happle aussie, we,ll be back for it next season.

roll on the footy season :shock:

 

[Dr Crane]

i can't comment as it will be misconstrued as an excuse

Yes. I'm prepared to really have a go at the team, selectors, coach, waterboy, but some of the twats in here don't make it worth the while.

look after the chadlee-happle aussie, we,ll be back for it next season.

I hear it wasn't on the line this series?

i wanted to know one thing. does andrew symonds not like brett lee.

cause when the crowd was shouting lee's a w****r, symonds was clappng along with the tune for a while

Interestingly, you would never see the kiwi players joining in that, even if we were winning by 200 runs. The yellow bastards really enjoy playing together...

That was easily the most annoying cricket match i've been to.

 

[JJ]

All I can say is that I am very disappointed - we should have won the first game but have been awful since.

Vettori and Marshall have been outstanding. But starting with the captain the rest have been awful - Fleming has shown nothing with the bat or as captain, Astle been pedestrian, Cairns did more harm than good with the bat last night, McMillan cointinues to look good then show his IQ, Tuffey has been horrible, Mills acceptable I guess, Wilson was embarrassing, Papps, Styris and Sincalir non-events...
The senior players need to stand up, the captain needs to perform, and they all need to look at the way Marshall is batting - or it'll be 5-0 before we know it!

 

[Iafeta]

All I can say is that I am very disappointed - we should have won the first game but have been awful since.

Vettori and Marshall have been outstanding. But starting with the captain the rest have been awful - Fleming has shown nothing with the bat or as captain, Astle been pedestrian, Cairns did more harm than good with the bat last night, McMillan cointinues to look good then show his IQ, Tuffey has been horrible, Mills acceptable I guess, Wilson was embarrassing, Papps, Styris and Sincalir non-events...
The senior players need to stand up, the captain needs to perform, and they all need to look at the way Marshall is batting - or it'll be 5-0 before we know it!

Right on teh mark. Tuffey dreadful :arrow: Cairns in career worst batting form and while he's at it selling his mate up the river, Fleming playing too cautiously and paying the price, Astle playing as if its a 5 day test match, Wilson dreadful :arrow: Sinclair end of international career surely too many chances now :arrow: , Mills never to bowl at the death again.

Marshall and Vettori, and McCullum's spirit too I reckon are the only reasons New Zealand has looked a 10% as good as they should have. McMillan's tried, but you're right, eventually he's needed to use the top 2 inches and fell well short.

 

[gregstar]

dear oh dear!
the 2nd best is ripping itself apart!
surely the aussies aren't that good?!

 

[wittyfan]

dear oh dear!
the 2nd best is ripping itself apart!
surely the aussies aren't that good?!

It is an unbelievable result! Who would've though it would have been 3-0 already? The odds must have been astronomical on that before the series.

Hopefully now some people in here will now acknowledge that Australia is far and away the no.1 team in one-day cricket and that the result in Melbourne was an aberration.

 

[wittyfan]

i wanted to know one thing. does andrew symonds not like brett lee.

cause when the crowd was shouting lee's a w****r, symonds was clappng along with the tune for a while

:shock: How could anyone not like Bretty? Perhaps Symonds is jealous. Queenslanders often are. :twisted:

 

[weasel]

Please, Sullyfan. Gimme a break. Brett Lee is an absolute toss. He goes way overboard with his intimidation bowling.

Anyway, this series has shown why the current side is the greatest cricket team ever, imo. Whenever another country starts looking like they can challenge us we ruthlessly demolish them (England watch out). NZ can go on about their win percentage from last year all they want but they fact is the games we lost last year really meant nothing in the scheme of our continued domination of the sport, apart from that Champions Trophy loss, and we flogged the Black Caps in that tournament anyway. When we've finally come into a ODI series that's at least been hyped up as important we respond by cruising to a 3-0 lead. Hopefully we don't have to hear any more bleating about them being the best one day team in the world, at least for another few years. I don't even care if they win the last two games of this series, it won't change the fact this series has been a humbling experience for them.