O/T: Foran, Rothfield and Hayson

[Gronk]

I honestly dont care ... foran can go play anywhere ... i am just glad we got his shitload of cash off our cap and can move on

Me too TBH, but I am very tired of the NRL's one rule for some and another rule for others.

Most recently it was Hayne fast tracking, yet the Manly merkin coming from Rugby was in limbo for 6 weeks.

Merkins can have a positive drug test for rec drugs after Mad Monday and nothing happens, yet if the cops ping you for the same thing you get 8 weeks.

They need to be consistent with Foran and his contract value otherwise I'm going to fight someone.

 

[strider]

Yeah i agree, the NRL are f**ked and have a complete merkin in charge

 

[Twizzle]

Are you referring to us getting blocked with Izzy? Because I don't think that was Todd's decision. How much do you think Foran's worth? Just because we paid him a ridiculous amount doesn't mean any other club will, particularly now.

No mate, moreso the crap that we had to put up with from him this year, he has been very inconsistent imo.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

@Noise If Foran is deemed to be fit enough for his NRL contract to be registered, then it's fair to say that the "risk" is not as great as you say. Purporting to register a player for 50% of his contract value only 5 months after his previous contract was mutually rescinded by his former club, does not pass the pub test for mine.

But the amount we paid him wasn't just his market value, it was his market value plus the amount we tried to pay him outside the cap.

 

[Gronk]

But the amount we paid him wasn't just his market value, it was his market value plus the amount we tried to pay him outside the cap.

Convenient semantics.

 

[forward pass]

Given his health issues, his constant physical injuries, and lack of playing for quite some time, the NRL may deem his value to be not that much at all. I am sure they would consider him a slight risk.

Like Strider I am glad he's gone NOW because of what we now know. It still amazes me how his signing went pearshaped so rapidly and to such an extent. If his split had happened next year instead - who knows where we might have finished. Although chances are he still would have done his shoulder!

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Convenient semantics.

It's not semantics at all. How much do you reckon Foran would be getting offered right now? That's his market value, and I suggest it would be plenty less than he was on.

 

[Gronk]

It's not semantics at all. How much do you reckon Foran would be getting offered right now? That's his market value, and I suggest it would be plenty less than he was on.

It is semantics because if you recognise the truth, his TPAs were included in our normal cap, so there was nothing illegal in the Foran contract. There were plenty of dodgy payments to other players, but the NRL ensured that Forans was all under the umbrella of the cap.

Accordingly his market price was the contract for when he last played - 2016.

Just because 2 clubs are prepared to offer him $500k this week, does not mean that $500k is the current market price. Same goes for any commodity. Market price is not determined by tire kicker bargain hunters.

 

[strider]

If he was on the cap at 800k for us, given the shit that has gone down i would say he would still be 500-600k ... he can still play

 

[Poupou Escobar]

It is semantics because if you recognise the truth, his TPAs were included in our normal cap, so there was nothing illegal in the Foran contract. There were plenty of dodgy payments to other players, but the NRL ensured that Forans was all under the umbrella of the cap.

Accordingly his market price was the contract for when he last played - 2016.

That's his former market value, from when he went on the market in 2015.

Just because 2 clubs are prepared to offer him $500k this week, does not mean that $500k is the current market price. Same goes for any commodity. Market price is not determined by tire kicker bargain hunters.

I reckon it is. Would you have him back for much more than $500k?

 

[Gronk]

That's his former market value, from when he went on the market in 2015.

"Former market value" is a flawed label made up by you on the fly. The market value for a marquee player of his standard would only drop after taking recent signings of his peers into consideration. I would say that the value of marquee players has been static over the past few seasons.

I reckon it is. Would you have him back for much more than $500k?

We don't need him anymore since the rise of Norman. Moot point.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

"Former market value" is a flawed label made up by you on the fly. The market value for a marquee player of his standard would only drop after taking recent signings of his peers into consideration. I would say that the value of marquee players has been static over the past few seasons.
We don't need him anymore since the rise of Norman. Moot point.

The market value is determined by what customers (the market) are willing to pay. Not what they were once willing to pay. Or would you like to buy my Origin Energy shares right now for what I paid for them at the time Parra signed Foran?

 

[Gronk]

The market value is determined by what customers (the market) are willing to pay. Not what they were once willing to pay. Or would you like to buy my Origin Energy shares right now for what I paid for them at the time Parra signed Foran?

As I said what a club offers Foran today is not "market" for a player of his ilk. The value of a marquee player is pretty well known. He may well be slightly damaged goods, what what he brings to a team in capability and potential to produce the goods on the field in 2017 has not halved in the past 5 months.

Hence why I am sticking to my guns about what his true value is. I will concede that (save his busted shoulder) he may have missed a few games for the Eels this year because of his "off field" issues, but really when he did play he was mostly producing 75%+ efforts and am sure that BA would attest to that.

Plenty of players go through slumps during the year. DCE had his own issues as did Milford. That does not mean that their market value has reduced. Foran trained and played through his issues but was sadly interrupted by his shoulder injury. I do not think that his playing ability suffered even though he had demons. There was certainly no evidence of his contribution to the team was effected. Was there ?

 

[strider]

He didnt go through a slump, he turned into a basket case

I reckon a club signing him tp 500k for 1 year is fair ... theres a risk he will never get back to his best .... but if he does then his value goes back up

If a club was signing him for 400k for 4 years then i think it would smell more fishy

 

[Poupou Escobar]

As I said what a club offers Foran today is not "market" for a player of his ilk. The value of a marquee player is pretty well known. He may well be slightly damaged goods, what what he brings to a team in capability and potential to produce the goods on the field in 2017 has not halved in the past 5 months.

No but what happened in the past five months is that the overs (as in, over market price) we were forced to pay (uncleverly hidden in TPAs) for him was included in our cap by the NRL. It is this value, which is far more than market value, that you are comparing Foran's new contract value with. It's a false comparison. Far more reflective of the market (then and now) is what we initially decided to pay under our cap, which I suggest is much closer to what the Warriors want to pay.

I think your view of his market value (even when we negotiated with him in 2015) is tainted by the massive overs he was assessed at after the NRL made their judgement against us. Indeed, if he was still on our books at the amount minus TPAs I daresay we wouldn't have let him go.

Hence why I am sticking to my guns about what his true value is. I will concede that (save his busted shoulder) he may have missed a few games for the Eels this year because of his "off field" issues, but really when he did play he was mostly producing 75%+ efforts and am sure that BA would attest to that.

Plenty of players go through slumps during the year. DCE had his own issues as did Milford. That does not mean that their market value has reduced. Foran trained and played through his issues but was sadly interrupted by his shoulder injury. I do not think that his playing ability suffered even though he had demons. There was certainly no evidence of his contribution to the team was effected. Was there ?

No but there is now the issue of his confirmed mental illness and history of unavailability and off field issues due to that. Plus his involvement in a criminal investigation. Foran is still a massive risk of being unable to play through all or even any of 2017. And while the Warriors can protect themselves somewhat through contract clauses, the fact is that having a large chunk of your cap freed up after the season has started isn't necessarily helpful. Even when players come available they probably won't be the ones you want or need to replace a starting half.

 

[Gronk]

He didnt go through a slump, he turned into a basket case

I reckon a club signing him tp 500k for 1 year is fair ... theres a risk he will never get back to his best .... but if he does then his value goes back up

If a club was signing him for 400k for 4 years then i think it would smell more fishy

Well I reckon that if he did not bust his shoulder, he would have actually played the season out.

 

[Wicked Witch Of The West]

His market value is what somebodies willing to pay, its as simple as that, no doubt his market value has halved in the last year.

 

[forward pass]

If we offered JT 3 million a season - and he decides for whatever reason that he is staying at the cowboys for much less - is his market value now 3 mil? Of course not - that is ludicrous. And what if he did take it ? Does it then become 3 million?

No way is market value based on what someone is willing to pay. That is complete nonsense.

 

[forward pass]

Double post - sorry

 

[forward pass]

Well I reckon that if he did not bust his shoulder, he would have actually played the season out.

Which makes you wonder if he would still be with us next year if that was the case. So - in summary it was not the depression which triggered the release - it was the bung shoulder and loss of the captaincy.