Organised crime and ElephantJuice in sport investigation part IV

[insert.pause]

if the charges don't include use or trafficking then what can the charge him for?

Rule violation 6. Possession of prohibited substances and prohibited methods.

Athletes can receive sanctions for having possession of prohibited substances or methods, even if they have not taken the substance, or used the method.

 

[Kiwi]

Rule violation 6. Possession of prohibited substances and prohibited methods.

Athletes can receive sanctions for having possession of prohibited substances or methods, even if they have not taken the substance, or used the method.

Then they have to prove possession which will be extremely hard to do without actually catching someone physically in possession.

 

[insert.pause]

Then they have to prove possession which will be extremely hard to do without actually catching someone physically in possession.

Hence the alleged text messages.

 

[Kiwi]

Hence the alleged text messages.

they would have to be extremely specific and also would have to differ from the ones they obviously discussed with Kennedy in his interview, either that or they weren't happy with his answers. Should be interesting to see what happens from here.

 

[blaza88z]

I wouldn't think text messages would be enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was in possession, he could easily deny that was his phone and there wouldn't be a great deal that they could do about it

That's the problem with this ASADA garbage, they can't prove beyond reasonable doubt, they can only speculate. For the most part they are relying on individuals coming forward and giving their friends up or giving themselves up (which is unlikely).

Sandor Earl is the one who will give him up, looks like they've blackmailed him.. "serve 4 years unless you tell us who's got what"

Ridiculous situation

 

[andrew057]

Pretty sure ASADA don't have to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[El Diablo]

source

 

[Kiwi]

Pretty sure ASADA don't have to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

Why not? Are you saying they can ban someone for a few years if their is reasonable doubt that they even did anything? You have to prove it in a court of law for crimes, but take a banned substance in a sport ( that isn't even illegal ) and they don't need to prove it you are just punished, ok yeah that makes sense.

 

[blaza88z]

I would like to think if they're issuing infraction notices they'd have rock solid evidence that the player is actually guilty

 

[El Diablo]

I would like to think if they're issuing infraction notices they'd have rock solid evidence that the player is actually guilty

if ASADA asked the NRL to issue an infraction based on circumstantial evidence i think they'd tell them to take a hike

 

[Canard]

I wouldn't think text messages would be enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was in possession, he could easily deny that was his phone and there wouldn't be a great deal that they could do about it

That's the problem with this ASADA garbage, they can't prove beyond reasonable doubt, they can only speculate. For the most part they are relying on individuals coming forward and giving their friends up or giving themselves up (which is unlikely).

Sandor Earl is the one who will give him up, looks like they've blackmailed him.. "serve 4 years unless you tell us who's got what"

Ridiculous situation

If the player is innocent of course.

If he is doing the wrong and someone "gives him up"an he should be punished and caught out.

 

[Pete Cash]

This is from 2004 and it's about WADA code but I assume asada operate under the same guidelines.

http://m.espn.go.com/extra/olympics/story?storyId=1823901&src=desktop
WADA and USADA rules say drug violations must be proven "to the comfortable satisfaction" of the panel hearing the case -- rather than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard used in U.S. criminal courts.

"We're not dealing here with criminal offenses, and there has never been a criminal burden of proof," Pound said. "I'm constantly surprised to see lawyers who are supposedly knowledgeable in anti-doping matters screaming and yelling about a change in the burden of proof, when that's what it has been for years."

 

[Kiwi]

This is from 2004 and it's about WADA code but I assume asada operate under the same guidelines.

http://m.espn.go.com/extra/olympics/story?storyId=1823901&src=desktop
WADA and USADA rules say drug violations must be proven "to the comfortable satisfaction" of the panel hearing the case -- rather than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard used in U.S. criminal courts.

"We're not dealing here with criminal offenses, and there has never been a criminal burden of proof," Pound said. "I'm constantly surprised to see lawyers who are supposedly knowledgeable in anti-doping matters screaming and yelling about a change in the burden of proof, when that's what it has been for years."

if that was the case this wouldn't be dragging on so long, there would have been punishments handed down by now. I imagine if innocent they will get challenged in a court of law anyway.

 

[Patorick]

So no presser today then?

 

[blaza88z]

it's just a big hoax, has been since the start

they're relying on peers coming forward, which might work in grade 5 at primary school but not when players careers are at stake

 

[insert.pause]

I don't think ASADA should have access to personal phone records to catch drug cheats, if its an illegal drug then it should be a criminal matter. From a rights point of view it seems completely outrageous that through a phone seizure by the ACC, ASADA can then use any information gained on an athlete to build a case to be trialled by a sports governing body. Its akin to your employer hacking your phone. There needs to be a reality check, they are breaking sporting codes of conduct, not rules of law, and in cases where they are breaking the law by taking illegal ElephantJuice or importation of illegal ElephantJuice these are not issues for ASADA and sports governing bodies, but for law enforcement authorities. Where an athlete is caught taking an illegal substance they should be investigated and charged by police first and ASADA and the sports governing body should only then act on the outcome of a court case.

Its like the NRL being given information from the ATO to investigate salary cap cheats, cheating the salary cap is not illegal and the NRL of course would never be given access to such information.

 

[saint pebba]

I wouldn't think text messages would be enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was in possession, he could easily deny that was his phone and there wouldn't be a great deal that they could do about it

That's the problem with this ASADA garbage, they can't prove beyond reasonable doubt, they can only speculate. For the most part they are relying on individuals coming forward and giving their friends up or giving themselves up (which is unlikely).

Sandor Earl is the one who will give him up, looks like they've blackmailed him.. "serve 4 years unless you tell us who's got what"

Ridiculous situation

If the mobile phone is in his name I wouldn't like his chances of making a claim that it wasn't his.

 

[Pierced Soul]

If the mobile phone is in his name I wouldn't like his chances of making a claim that it wasn't his.

but they'd have to prove he was the one sending the messages. plenty of people have phone swhich are technically in other people's names. my missus' # is under my name cos she wasnt working at the time and they wouldnt give it to her.

it'd be a ridiculous stretch to argue it wasnt him messaging but people caught in corners try all sorts of things

 

[Kiwi]

If the mobile phone is in his name I wouldn't like his chances of making a claim that it wasn't his.

You would think they also would have to some sort of court permission to obtain private property such as the phone and search it for evidence.

 

[NrlCoach]

it's just a big hoax, has been since the start

they're relying on peers coming forward, which might work in grade 5 at primary school but not when players careers are at stake

This. ASADA are leaking bullshit info to the telecrap to scare players into jumping.. if they had any real evidence this would of been over long time ago :lol: