OT: Association Football

[phantom eel]

That's a long post Eele - thanks for your concerns. I'll try to keep my rsponse brief, as there's really no issue to discuss.

I wasn't being facetious, by the way - I think you're a good guy, but you do seem really all too happy to fish and stir some shit, and I wonder whether others find it as alarming as I do.

I don't really care what other's think - it's n internet forum, not real life. Assuming the emotions or motivations of other people on an internet forum is a fool's errand - you'll always end up getting it wrong.

I have no anger, and I am far from ruled by emotion. I enjoy stiring some shit, but I do not enjoy it because of anger. There are leaps in logic that you are making, well intentioned they may be but based more on your own reading of the world than on my reality.

Perhaps you are looking for a balanced discussion, careful consideration or people showing their rational sides in the wrong place? After all this is just an internet forum, not Q&A. Some of my posts will be rational discussion, some will be flippant remarks/attempted humour, some will be personal opinions, and some will be flinging shit at people like Suity (who has done and still does the same to others here).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the state of the A-League, it's gradual improvement in quality, and your stance on flares. I respect your opinions, even if my tolerance for crowd behaviour that negatively effects perceptions of Western Sydney may be a bit higher than yours/the RBB's.

A great example is an elderly gentleman I know of 70+ years, who has been a passionate football fanatic since he moved to Blacktown from Athens decades ago. He was one of the first people in line to purchase a membetship to the Wanderers, and is all too happy to participate in the Poznan.

But I ask you - should he be considered a dickhead, because he classifies himself as a proud member of the Bloc?

Sounds like a great 70 year old... he may not b ea dickhead, but I'd say he's part of the RBB's problem. What is he doing to stand up against the fool element within the RBB? What is he doing about the guys down the front that lead the RBB, that allow (and even celebrate) the use of flares and detonators, that intimidate security and police, that threaten fans of opposing clubs, that cause eproperty damage in restaurants, that steal tifos, that organise protests to support people that have been rightfully banned from venues for their poor behaviour? If he's standing idly by, while being a "proud" member of the RBB, then imo he is part of the same problem.

Just because there are some meth-heads and criminals in Western Sydney, doesn't mean the RBB should stoop to the same levels, and become something that adds to the perception problems. If the WSW get the RBB in order, then it has the potential to actually do something positive for Western Sydney, instead of be a laughing stock every time they make the news. The Bulldogs problems were 12+ years ago, and they've cleaned up their act - the comparison is moot.

But I know you're a rational person. I know it. And I think you should show it more.

Thanks for the well-intentioned advice. But I still like seing WSW get beat, I will still highlight situations where the RBB negatively impact on perceptions of Western Sydney (and of the A-League in general), and I will still give Suity the same treatment he has/still gives others on here (becuase... karma)

 

[Eelementary]

Hopefully we beat the Sky Blues next time we meet, then!

 

[Suitman]

 

[hineyrulz]

Arnie just read another Pou post.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

It certainly cost us saving our best merkins to play against Asians on Wednesday. We'd better win.

 

[Suitman]

It certainly cost us saving our best merkins to play against Asians on Wednesday. We'd better win.

So who would they be?

 

[Suitman]

The A-League is going well, just you wouldn't know it. - Richard Hinds



Quote:

THE gullible and the slavishly devoted fawned over Maria Sharapova’s stage-managed announcement. No wonder spin doctors are as highly valued as the clients whose reputations they salvage.

Sharapova took a banned drug, had an alibi with more holes than a tin can in a shooting club car park and spoke in tightly-scripted riddles. But those who like their news with a dollop of honey raved that she had “owned the message’’.

By that standard, not only has the A-League failed to own its message this season. It has forgotten what its message was. You’ll find it down there somewhere beneath a pile of bad news stories.

Distorted by inevitable growing pains and, in some cases, scandalously unfair reporting that has amplified already damaging impressions.

As a result, so “off-message’’ is the A-League you could be forgiven for thinking:

■ DISGRUNTLED fans are better strikers than the players putting the ball in the net;

■ SBS, the A-League unfaithful free-to-air partner, thinks the Eurovision Song Contest is a more fundamental part of Australian life than the Sydney Derby;

■ THE only decent marquees in Australia contain C-list celebrities at Flemington during the Melbourne Cup carnival;

■ THE A-League’s “vision’’ makes Mr Magoo look like a gold medal contender in archery at the Rio Olympics; and

■ The residents of Mogadishu comfort themselves that their city is not as dangerous as the terraces at an A-League game.

Consequently, the oft-heard impression: “The A-League? Never go, mate. But it’s a shambles, right?’’

No, actually. Very very wrong. The standard of the A-League has risen steadily this season with the continued influx of skilful recruits and the games are generally entertaining. The battle at the top of the table is engrossing. The season’s storylines such as the Wanderers’ regeneration, Adelaide’s remarkable turnaround and the impact of the fabulously entertaining record-breaking striker Bruno Fornaroli are compelling.

Yes, a couple of uncompetitive teams and occasionally drab tactics mean not every game is as exhilarating as a Movie World ride.

But the AFL has endured a decade of relatively turgid, defence-oriented tactics and suffers no similar self-loathing or external criticism.

A-League chief executive Damien De Bohun will leave the role at the end of the season. For his still-to-be-named replacement, the vast gap between the false perceptions around the A-League and the much healthier reality should be comforting.

Better to inherit a reasonably well functioning, entertaining if cash-strapped competition with an unfairly tainted reputation than one that is being justifiably kicked about like an old training ball.

The new A-League boss, and the entire FFA administration, will be judged on the next TV rights deal.

Particularly whether they can achieve both the financial return and the promotional value provided by meaningful free-to-air exposure while satisfying Fox Sports which continues to provide excellent wall-to-wall coverage.

Meanwhile, the eternal anguish about the need for more “superstar’’ marquees is symbolic of the A-League’s struggle to promote a solid product.

The FFA has announced it will put aside millions of dollars to fund future marquees. Somewhere in Europe, a fading striker with a few kilometres left in his aching knees is putting on his copper arthritis bracelet and preparing to collect his seven figure superannuation payment.

Meanwhile, the exploits of the brilliant Fornaroli, his visionary teammate Aaron Mooy, the Wanderers’ Spanish Armada and A-League’s other existing stars remain scandalously under-promoted.

This lack of visibility is partly a consequence of the slow, painful death of the A-League’s agreement with SBS.

But it also demonstrates the abject failure of a competition on the back foot to sell its good news stories.

Tim Cahill would be, more than almost anyone, a strong marketing focus. But in successful leagues fans follow clubs, not individual players. If Cahill is bigger than the club for which he plays the A-League is devalued.

Another enduring dilemma for the A-League is that many football insiders and pundits don’t fully embrace the local product. This is football’s culture wars in which the bloody warriors spend half their time defending the A-League against attacks from outsiders and the other half tearing it apart themselves.

Some are Euro-snobs making apples-and-oranges comparisons between the A-League and the best of the continental leagues, some are holdouts from the old NSL who lament their loss of influence and control.

Whatever the motivation, the failure of the football literate to buy in to the A-League is more damaging than the graffiti smeared by mischievous reporters seeking a cheap headline or points-scoring supporters of rival codes.

Too often the only place you would realise the A-League is having a very good season is at the game. And those inside the turnstiles have already got the message.

Richard Hinds, and AFL man, actually gets it.

http://www.dailytele...efb44cacd08c72e

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So who would they be?

The two Senegalese internationals and the club's Slovak marquee. Also the Iraqi.

No wonder wankers like soccer. It's like a Benetton commercial.

 

[phantom eel]

Richard Hinds, and AFL man, actually gets it.

http://www.dailytele...efb44cacd08c72e

But sadly provides no solutions to the issues he identifies? And on it goes... until (imo) the A-League lifts their game in landing a (meaningful, free-to-air) broadcast deal, attracting decent in-their-prime marquee playing talent, lifting the quality of the league overall, and making sure their active fans don't do anything to drag the sport down in the broader public's eye.

It isn't as if AFL and Rugby League (and to a lesser extent Union and Cricket) haven't given A-League a free ride over the past decade or so, and still the problems Hinds identifies have not been overcome.

 

[Eelementary]

Tbh I'm not convinced the A-League needs a big, A-list player to join.

But they're making strides in attracting quality players in fledgling local South American and European comps - the Wanderers alone have recruited Andreu, a former Barcelona B star, as well as Dimas Delgado and Alberto Aguilar.

Certainly, the league just doesn't have the money to attract a Harry Kane.

But is a Harry Kane what the A-League needs to go to the next level?

The Chinese league has recently been flooded with cash, and they've gone on massive spending sprees - but players playing in the league have been vocal about the quality of the competition, as well as critical of the lifestyle offered.

Imo, what the A-League should be doing is fostering relationships with giant overseas clubs, and offering loan players to prove that we are serious about football in this country.

Imagine if Aaron Mooy was sent, on loan, to Real Madrid, played a few games off the bench, and impressed - not only would it boost the A-League's profile, but no doubt that more young talent would see Australia as a viable option to come play competitive football, despite the lower salary.

Just imo, anyway.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

If Mooy was good enough to ever get onto the field for Real Madrid he wouldn't be playing in the A-League.

That's not to say he's not good enough to play in mid-tier European leagues like Holland or Turkey, or even make the squad for one of the weaker Spanish clubs, but the f**king backups at Real Madrid would all be marquee superstars in the A-League.

Generally the loan arrangements between the world class clubs and their feeders are like the arrangements between NRL clubs and their state cup partners - the big club sends its unused backups down on loan for experience and match fitness. There isn't much traffic the other way, and if there is it's the big club getting first transfer rights to any promising youth players that might emerge at the smaller club.

 

[Eelementary]

If Mooy was good enough to ever get onto the field for Real Madrid he wouldn't be playing in the A-League.

That's not to say he's not good enough to play in mid-tier European leagues like Holland or Turkey, or even make the squad for one of the weaker Spanish clubs, but the f**king backups at Real Madrid would all be marquee superstars in the A-League.

Generally the loan arrangements between the world class clubs and their feeders are like the arrangements between NRL clubs and their state cup partners - the big club sends its unused backups down on loan for experience and match fitness. There isn't much traffic the other way, and if there is it's the big club getting first transfer rights to any promising youth players that might emerge at the smaller club.

It was a hypothetical.

I agree with you.

Having said that, it's not out of the realm of possibility - not necessarily with Mooy, but perhaps with another player.

Twenty years ago, nobody thought Harry Kewell, Tim Cahill or Mark Bosnich would amount to much, and they had stellar careers in top flight English football.

My main point was that the focus seems to be on attracting big-name stars at the peak of their powers to come down, and I don't agree with this strategy.

I believe the A-League will flourish and perform more strongly by focussing on raiding American and Asian leagues, as well as partnering A-League clubs with stronger counterparts.

Isn't Melbourne Victory allied up with Liverpool FC?

 

[phantom eel]

Yep, Kewell, Cahill and Bosnich are all now just about qualified to return to the A-League as marquees... isn't there a rule that A-League marquees have to be over 40yo? Or overseas reserve players returning from major surgery?

(And before you go imagining any anger etc... ;-))

 

[Eelementary]

Yep, Kewell, Cahill and Bosnich are all now just about qualified to return to the A-League as marquees... isn't there a rule that A-League marquees have to be over 40yo? Or overseas reserve players returning from major surgery?

(And before you go imagining any anger etc... ;-))

That's not what my point was, but for the sake of civil conversation, I'll indulge you.

Shinji Ono joined us at age 32; Filip Holosko is a Slovakian international, and 32; Dutch international Romeo Castelen joined us at 31.

So, straight off the bat, your assertions are wide of the mark.

It might behoove you to think about why you get so much of a tickle out of starting up an argument with anyone and everyone for witless reasons - and while you're having a think over that, perhaps it would be of benefit to mull over why you believe hiding your passive-aggressive shots at people behind emoticons somehow exonerates you from others' reactions towards you.

Your use of grammar and emoticons betrays a bitter, sarcastic person, and it's clear to see despite your attempts to lighten it up by stating, "It's a forum - there's the ignore button!"

Incidentally, if I didn't know any better, I'd guess that that's your goal - to mindlessly antagonise as many posters as you can into ignoring you, so as to somehow win some twisted game you've concocted.

Why else would any rational person completely ignore and/or miss the original point being made, just to suit their agenda?

Moreover, why else would a rational person choose to randomly bring up something that I said that is completely out of context (although being 100% correct)? That, of course, being your snide comment about me "imagining any anger".

For someone to deliberately misconstrue a simple point just to elicit a particular response shows either anger or bitterness.

 

[phantom eel]

*checks to see whether replying in a thread will mean that Suity thinks I am stalking :sarcasm: *

Mistaking comments/banter for "assertions" is not the way of the force, Luke... my comments were obviously in jest. Bosnich doesn't play anymore, Kewell has already given it a try, and Cahill wanted more money.

I loved Shinji Ono, and have posted in this thread (or its predecessors) many times about how he was the best thing the Wanderers have had going for them. Wanderers have had to change their whole style of game because they couldn't find another attacking player of Ono's class. Their play was much more attractive in the Ono days, imo.

Thanks for the advice about what might "behoove" me... and in return for your civil conversation I'll posit the same questions I asked Suity before he sooked off - why do you care so much about giving advice about what I post? And why do you take the forum/what I type so seriously? (They can be rhetorical questions for you to ponder, if you prefer...)

 

[Eelementary]

I'm not sure why Bosnich or Kewell's current playing activities are relevant - there was a greater point behind them that you conveniently ignored to try to gain the reaction you're after.

The point was simply that nobody expected them to amount to much, and they played top flight English football - a fact you correlated with apparently meaning they're A-League bound.

The questions you've asked me could - and should - be directed back at you.

I'm more than happy to have a civil discussion, but when points get ignored to favour another point not even in the original discussion, then it's pretty obvious what's at play.

Further evidence to that is the old "it's just a forum, lighten up" line - the people who spew that line forth usually do so because they're after a certain reaction.

I'm not really sure why you don't think you could discuss the situation of the A-League without twisting my point, but if that's what you're content to do, then it's OK - I'll find someone else to discuss it with.

I will say, though, that your "cool as a cucumber" demeanour loses authenticity with every post you make not addressing the actual issues.

 

[phantom eel]

That's a lengthy response Eele... and you've added further moral judgement to your previous post, after I'd replied to it as well.

Again, your first mistake is to assume a motiviation in others, and getting it wrong. "Twisting", "deliberately ignoring", claiming sole ownership of "the actual issues" - newsflash, no one cares! :lol: You're taking it all too seriously.

I don't think I'll bother replying to any more of your serious moralising, about what you think a forum should be, and how you think other people should post etc etc.

So to sum up the actual "discussion", Richard Hinds identifies that the A-League is planning to use loads of money to attract high-level marquees, and laments that the ones that will take it will be past-it players. You disagree with that approach (fair enough), I jokingly identify Bosnich, Kewell and Cahill as past-it players that match Hinds' definitions of typical A-League marquees... and you take offence and post loads of drivel about what you'd advise me to do and not on the forum?

Are we up to date? :crazy:

 

[Suitman]

Eele,

Don't bother.
This is the same football "expert" who was calling for Popa's head earlier in the season. The same Popa who has the Wanderers leading the competition. "We played better football when Ono was here." :lol::lol::lol: He couldn't be more wrong if he tried.
It's the Wanderers success that pisses Bart off. His resentment shows no reason whatsoever.

Suity

 

[phantom eel]

Wlecome back Suity... or was that one of the posts not about me, that I'm not meant to reply to without being accused of stalking you?

It's all very confusing mate *insert emoticon here*

 

[Suitman]

Eele,

Don't bother.
This is the same football "expert" who was calling for Popa's head earlier in the season. The same Popa who has the Wanderers leading the competition. "We played better football when Ono was here." :lol::lol::lol: He couldn't be more wrong if he tried.
It's the Wanderers success that pisses Bart off. His resentment shows no reason whatsoever.

Suity