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OT: Current Affairs and Politics

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
153,751
To be fair over and above all else, it's The Voice that is what's been asked for.
Yep, and it’s Albo’s and the yes people’s job to sell it and I reckon they have done a pretty poor job of it. Which is main reason it will be voted down.
 
Messages
11,811
Scenes from Redfern's march Yesterday...

1695005356431.png

Get on board - despite News Corp's efforts on negative media, this thing is looking like it's a big chance of getting up ☺️
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,701
Yep, and it’s Albo’s and the yes people’s job to sell it and I reckon they have done a pretty poor job of it. Which is main reason it will be voted down.
Well there's two ways of looking at it. The yes campaign have done poor job of convincing people that it's the right thing to do OR the NO campaign have done a great job in convincing people that there's more to it and whatever that is, it's bad news.

~ Labor's Risky Voice.

Facts are that many people are quite rightly talking about funding and cash finding its way to remote communities, but does anyone in this room actually give a rats ? Or is it really just about a win vs Labor ?

1695005605518.png
 

bazza

Immortal
Messages
30,963
I also no nothing about benefits they get. I just hear lots of people whinge about it.
If you are indigenous you can get AbStudy instead of AusStudy or Youth Allowance - though the base rates are the same ($562.80/fortnight for single no children). It seems like AbStudy covers both AusStudy (over 25) and Youth Allowance (under 25)



 

bazza

Immortal
Messages
30,963
Yep, and it’s Albo’s and the yes people’s job to sell it and I reckon they have done a pretty poor job of it. Which is main reason it will be voted down.
It wasn't Albo's idea - it was requested in 2017.
It is just that Albo is the first PM to put what was requested in 2017 to the people of Australia
 

Bandwagon

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
44,941
Yep, and it’s Albo’s and the yes people’s job to sell it and I reckon they have done a pretty poor job of it. Which is main reason it will be voted down.

It is, and I agree that they could and should be doing a better job.

Though I also reckon it's a much harder sell than the no case, the government is hamstrung by presenting the reality, whereas the no case has no such limitations. The other side of that is the government has to walk a fairly tight line between presenting the voice as meaningful change, but avoiding making it sound like it's gonna change more than it will.

Where the government ( And Albo in particular ) could be doing much better is in going after the no case and it's credibility, they seem to have deliberately avoided that, and it isn't working.
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
52,983
And isn’t that the most important problem in all of this?? Having a voice means zero if the money and help continues to not go when it’s intended or needed. Those people out there in the remote communities that have no access to basic amenities what really changed for them?? As long as some wealthy white people feel a little a better about themselves that’s the main thing I suppose.
That in itself isn’t a reason not to try and create a situation where there is better indigenous representation. Hard to do though when it is such a contested space.

My personal view is that we have come a long way in the last 20 years in recognising the issue, but we haven’t really improved anything as illustrated by the closing the gap reports which show little improvement in some areas and a decline in others.

I will be voting yes because I know how parliament works and don’t see it as something scary. But I’ll be following closely because the implementation will be critical if we are to genuinely make a change.

…and we have to make a change because the situation for many indigenous folk is pretty f**ken horrible.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,315
Where the government ( And Albo in particular ) could be doing much better is in going after the no case and it's credibility, they seem to have deliberately avoided that, and it isn't working.

for some reason he doesn't seem to have that in his game, he was ordinary in opposition, unlike the coalition who just oppose everything on factional grounds

not saying labour have never done this, just that its not part of Albo's game and he doesn't seem to be good at it
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,701
Sean Gordon AM is co-convenor of the Liberals for Yes campaign, chair of Uphold & Recognise, managing director of the Gidgee Group, CEO of the Yadha Muru Foundation and serves on many national boards and advisory committees.

------8<-------

A voice will help make right this country’s history of division. Will Australians slap away our outstretched hand?​

Sean Gordon

This week I was honoured as a member of the Order of Australia (AM) for a lifetime of significant service to the Indigenous community as an advocate for equity. My deep pride and gratitude for this honour are mixed with trepidation and unease.

The medal was bestowed by a crown and country that – unlike other Commonwealth countries – still does not recognise my people in its founding document, our constitution. A crown and country that – unlike other comparable democracies – still does not guarantee my people a voice in decisions made about Indigenous affairs.

Anxiety twists in my heart as I think about the upcoming referendum. My people through the Uluru statement have held out a hand of peace, forgiveness, and healing to the Australian people. We have sought unity and inclusion to make right this country’s history of division and exclusion of my people.

We have asked only for recognition through an advisory voice in laws and policies made about us, so that the travesties of the past are less likely to be repeated. So that our future and outcomes are fairer and better than our past. So that our Indigenous people are listened to, bringing fresh thinking and practical solutions to the various challenges our communities face.

Will Australians slap away our outstretched hand?

This week, I was handing out yes pamphlets at train stations with Liberals for yes, which I co-chair. The response from the community was overwhelmingly positive, warm, and energising. However, two individuals came up and said: “The voice is apartheid.”

Those people might not realise: my family lived through apartheid.

My people were explicitly excluded from the constitution of 1901, including under a race-based clause that said they should not be counted. They were subject to decades of unjust and ineffective race-based policies including segregation and the forced removal of children from their families.

In 1938 my great grandparents were forcibly taken from Wangkumarra traditional lands (the corner country) to the Brewarrina mission 500km away in far north-western New South Wales. My great grandparents, Albert and Rose Ebsworth, were subject to the 1909 NSW Aborigines Protection Act. They were stripped of their names and given the numbers Native 140 and Native 141.

During the so-called “protection era” Aboriginals were controlled, told who we were allowed to marry, and where we were allowed to live. Forced to not speak our language and practice our cultural customs. My family members had their bodies prodded and measured, so officials could figure out whether our blackness could be bred out so we could be assimilated into white society.

Before forced removal, Wangkumarra people worked hard as stockmen and servants, with one Wangkumarra family having £75 pounds in the bank and four families having £25 pounds in the bank. This was replaced with rations and handouts.

Unlike our white counterparts, Indigenous soldiers who fought for Australia were not treated equally by the country they defended, let alone recognised or honoured for their contributions. Indigenous veterans generally couldn’t apply for land under the soldier settlement schemes.

Unequal or non-existent wages. No ability to buy and receive land, despite our service to the country. How were we supposed to get ahead, in a country that wanted to keep us down? These policies had devastating impacts on my people and continue to do so.

I grew up in a foster home that was built at the site of the old Brewarrina mission. It’s where they sent the kids of Aboriginal parents incapacitated by unemployment, addictions and trauma. Many of these parents were forcibly placed on the mission.

Most of the Aboriginal kids I grew up with have struggled. Some have not lived beyond the age of 30 years. Many are still lost in welfare dependence and addiction.

I don’t know how or why I turned out OK. I worked hard, but I was also a lucky one. Not everyone can be as lucky – not with the history we have suffered.

My life’s work has been dedicated to empowering other Indigenous people to overcome their past by stepping up and take responsibility for their future.

I beseech all of you who are reading this piece: is it really asking too much for my people to be recognised in the constitution from which we were excluded for so long? Is it really asking too much to be able to give advice when parliament and government make laws and policies that impact our community?

To those no case proponents saying the voice will divide us by race: get a grip.

My people have been treated as an inferior race under the Australian constitution since 1901. Race-based clauses excluded us. Race-based policies treated us as second-class citizens in our own country. Race-based clauses still exist in the constitution.

The fact is, parliament and government already make Indigenous-specific laws and policies – such as the Native Title Act, Closing the Gap and so on – to address the history of discrimination we have suffered. All we are asking is that Indigenous communities at least have a say in those laws and policies, so that the injustices of the past are less likely to be repeated, and so that better outcomes can be achieved.

We know that when governments listen to local Indigenous communities, we get better results.

I ask all Australians: accept my people’s hand of love and friendship. Include us, finally. Recognise us, finally. Give us a voice in decisions made about us.

Together, we can make our future better than our past.

 

Bandwagon

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
44,941
for some reason he doesn't seem to have that in his game, he was ordinary in opposition, unlike the coalition who just oppose everything on factional grounds

not saying labour have never done this, just that its not part of Albo's game and he doesn't seem to be good at it

He's not bad at it in parliament though, for some reason he doesn't bring it to the real world.
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
52,983
To true, but it will only be much worse.

Greedy evil doesn't just say, OK I have had enough, I will just go away now.

Greedy evil always wants more and jealously guards its ill gotten gains to the point of knowing it needs to silence and or kill ALL its opposition if it wants to remain in power and unchallenged.

Guess what, we are all greedy evils opposition.

Greedy evil never sleeps.
Greedy evil is turning a blind eye to the dire situation that many indigenous folk find themselves in.

Get off YouTube for a while and spend some time out in the communities mate and you’d be appalled at what you see. You can’t be all seeing and knowing if you never experience anything for yourself.
 

Cloeel

Juniors
Messages
859
That in itself isn’t a reason not to try and create a situation where there is better indigenous representation. Hard to do though when it is such a contested space.

My personal view is that we have come a long way in the last 20 years in recognising the issue, but we haven’t really improved anything as illustrated by the closing the gap reports which show little improvement in some areas and a decline in others.

I will be voting yes because I know how parliament works and don’t see it as something scary. But I’ll be following closely because the implementation will be critical if we are to genuinely make a change.

…and we have to make a change because the situation for many indigenous folk is pretty f**ken horrible.


From what you had said, you are happy to vote "yes" without their being clear strategy around the implementation? Should this not be a critical component that is disclosed/created/planned prior to any referendum in general?
 

bazza

Immortal
Messages
30,963
From what you had said, you are happy to vote "yes" without their being clear strategy around the implementation? Should this not be a critical component that is disclosed/created/planned prior to any referendum in general?
you may know more, but I believe that Labor have provided some details on how the Voice would be selected and the things it would focus on initially

Of course that could all change if there is a change of government because the constitutional ammendment only says that the Voice exists, it gives advice on matters relating to indigenous Australians and that the government can make laws relating to the Voice (e.g. how members are selected)

The minister for Indigenous Affairs appeared before the National Press Club on Wednesday with an address that outlined four areas she believes the advisory body should focus on.

Health, housing, jobs and education will be considered "priority areas", a necessary focus given the Voice will have "a full in-tray ... from day one."

"The Voice will be tasked with taking the long-view," she told the assembled journalists.

"Unlike government, it won’t be distracted by the 3 year election cycles. It will plan for the next generation, not the next term."

The minister also addressed a common criticism of the proposed constitutional amendment by giving an indication of how the body will work. Speaking in broad strokes, the minister's outline bore a strong resemblance to the model proposed in the Calma Langton report.

"Every state and territory, the Torres Strait Islands and remote communities will be represented," she said.

"It will be gender balanced and include the views of young people. It will consult with local communities."



Calma Langton report on how members of the Voice could be chosen

 

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