OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[hindy111]

Yeah makes sense, thanks so much.

Plenty of men in power take advantage of women.
Plenty of women with good looks take advantage of wealthy men.

Is it right? NO. But it happens. Some people have different morals to you and me.Or just view what is acceptable differently

 

[Gronk]

Plenty of men in power take advantage of women.
Plenty of women with good looks take advantage of wealthy men.

Is it right? NO. But it happens. Some people have different morals to you and me.Or just view what is acceptable differently

Yeah I know. Cardinal George Pell used to hang around swimming pool change rooms when young boys were getting changed. Often he'd be naked himself, striking up conversations. No harm done ?

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...to-young-boys-at-surf-club-says-victorian-man

 

[TheRam]

He actually focused on Trump, Prince Andrew and Clinton. 3 people. You focused on one.

There are plenty of dodgy merkins with links to Epstein. Gronk mentioned three of them, but he could have mentioned more. Maybe he could have mentioned others instead of Trump given its made you so upset.

All he is doing is implying that where there is smoke there is fire. You seem certain that Trump is completely innocent but in reality you have no more credibility than Gronk. You are just providing an opinion. I have read plenty on the Epstein thing (from both sides of politics) and it is far from black and white. My personal opinion is that he was likely balls deep in whatever was going for a period but he wasn't repeatedly filling up at the all you can eat buffet in the way that others were (including Clinton). Thats just my opinion though as there are compelling arguments on both sides.

As for your repeated claim about Trump going on record against Epstein. That doesn't mean shit. That action could have been driven by a range of motives, from outrage and disgust all the way through to guilt and one-upmanship.


Before you were shit bagging us for taking sides now you are ripping me for sitting on the fence. Make up your mind. I haven't once been a smart arse in this exchange (except maybe the bum chum comment). If that offended you, I apologise.

Kids don't need advocates. They need balanced f**king role models that are capable of considering a range of opinions.

Why mention him at all when we know on record that he is the only one that has a clean record in regards to Epstein and actually went on record and gave information against him when the FBI couldn't get anyone else that knew him in those circles to say jack sh!t about him. Gronk being the learned lefty that he is would have known this, but he chose to throw Trump in with as you say the rest of those "dodgy merkins" to continue the false myth that Trump is somehow the scum bag piece of sh!t that the lefties all want to paint him as.

So I just thought I'd un-muddy the waters a bit mate. Sorry you got so upset about it. As for your opinion that he was "balls deep in it with the rest of them", oh please, if that were true he would have been hung out to dry 3 years ago if not earlier by the endless chorus of merkins out to get him. I mean look at the ridiculous behind closed doors impeachment proceedings going on now based on a phone call that a thousand other merkins were listening in on and we have the transcript and they are trying to say he did something wrong. Imagine if they had something as juicy as paedophilia to get him on? It would have happened before you could have said "quid prod quo" ffs.

Also since you are so well read up on this topic, then you would know that Epstein had pictures and videos of the participants of these crimes as insurance in case someone like Trump were ever to feel the need to out him, it would also bring on his own downfall. So how then did Trump, who was as you say was "balls deep in it" have the balls so to speak, say anything against him to the FBI and get away with it without anything coming out? He would have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Remember this happened years ago when Epstein first got convicted. So not politically motivated, just one billionaire outing another, when no one else was willing.

So I just come back to my original statement which is, whenever something criminal, ugly or bad happens, somehow the Trump haters will agree that whatever it is, is terrible, but then by the end of their sentence Trumps name will be attached to it or somehow implied was involved. Which I find hysterical and makes me kind of happy to know that at least half of the idiots that help contribute in making this world crap are seething and miserable at the moment while Trump is President. The other half will get their turn to be miserable and seething when the Blue team get to have their turn next.

Oh and if you don't think that kids need protection, then you're an...I'll let you finish that thought.

 

[TheRam]

Oh, and while we're at it Project Veritas is not the most reliable of sources. Their record speaks for it's self.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas

So now Project Veritas is doctoring videos and putting words in the mouths of the people that are caught on tape saying, well nothing it would seem?

I believe PV is what true journalism is/was. Imagine if they got Trump incriminating himself in the same manner. They would be hailed as the greatest journalist of all time.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Why mention him at all when we know on record that he is the only one that has a clean record in regards to Epstein and actually went on record and gave information against him when the FBI couldn't get anyone else that knew him in those circles to say jack sh!t about him. Gronk being the learned lefty that he is would have known this, but he chose to throw Trump in with as you say the rest of those "dodgy merkins" to continue the false myth that Trump is somehow the scum bag piece of sh!t that the lefties all want to paint him as.

So I just thought I'd un-muddy the waters a bit mate. Sorry you got so upset about it. As for your opinion that he was "balls deep in it with the rest of them", oh please, if that were true he would have been hung out to dry 3 years ago if not earlier by the endless chorus of merkins out to get him. I mean look at the ridiculous behind closed doors impeachment proceedings going on now based on a phone call that a thousand other merkins were listening in on and we have the transcript and they are trying to say he did something wrong. Imagine if they had something as juicy as paedophilia to get him on? It would have happened before you could have said "quid prod quo" ffs.

Also since you are so well read up on this topic, then you would know that Epstein had pictures and videos of the participants of these crimes as insurance in case someone like Trump were ever to feel the need to out him, it would also bring on his own downfall. So how then did Trump, who was as you say was "balls deep in it" have the balls so to speak, say anything against him to the FBI and get away with it without anything coming out? He would have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Remember this happened years ago when Epstein first got convicted. So not politically motivated, just one billionaire outing another, when no one else was willing.

So I just come back to my original statement which is, whenever something criminal, ugly or bad happens, somehow the Trump haters will agree that whatever it is, is terrible, but then by the end of their sentence Trumps name will be attached to it or somehow implied was involved. Which I find hysterical and makes me kind of happy to know that at least half of the idiots that help contribute in making this world crap are seething and miserable at the moment while Trump is President. The other half will get their turn to be miserable and seething when the Blue team get to have their turn next.

Oh and if you don't think that kids need protection, then you're an...I'll let you finish that thought.

You can have your opinion and I can have mine. I'm not a Trump hater, just attempting to put together the pieces based on what I know. I should of left the conversation between yourself and Gronk who you originally aimed your criticisms at.

You said kids need advocates. Advocates for what? There are already enough people with deeply entrenched views on either side of the debate. All of them pushing what they perceive as the truth.

They need balance. They need to know that Greta Thunberg is ONE viewpoint. They need to know that Trump is neither a hero nor a complete f**k up of a president. That's what's missing right now.

Anyway, I respect your views mate.

 

[Bandwagon]

So now Project Veritas is doctoring videos and putting words in the mouths of the people that are caught on tape saying, well nothing it would seem?

I believe PV is what true journalism is/was. Imagine if they got Trump incriminating himself in the same manner. They would be hailed as the greatest journalist of all time.

Well mate, their dishonesty is well established and well documented, and given Trump is a major donor to them, and their very obvious right wing bias, I doubt very much they'll be running an expose on him ( or anyone else from the right ) any time soon.

Good luck to you if you think that their brand of targeted bias and deceit constitutes journalism at all, let alone "true journalism".

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Also wrong.

There's plenty more mailmen where that came from.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well mate, their dishonesty is well established and well documented, and given Trump is a major donor to them, and their very obvious right wing bias, I doubt very much they'll be running an expose on him ( or anyone else from the right ) any time soon.

Good luck to you if you think that their brand of targeted bias and deceit constitutes journalism at all, let alone "true journalism".

The mainstream media leans so far left and is so institutionally immune to scrutiny that anything from the other side is held to standards not applied to left wing editorialism. If Project Veritas is biased it's because it's necessary. The mainstream media no longer exposes the establishment.

 

[Bandwagon]

The mainstream media leans so far left and is so institutionally immune to scrutiny that anything from the other side is held to standards not applied to left wing editorialism. If Project Veritas is biased it's because it's necessary. The mainstream media no longer exposes the establishment.

Nonsense.

The mainstream media covers the gamut of Liberalism through to conservatism, and left through to right.

 

[TheRam]

So, I'll say a few things quickly:

1) Rammy is mostly right about Trump - yes, he had a social relationship with Epstein (they were billionairres, after all) but, in terms of this stuff, he did not. Banned him from Mar-a-Logo and (this is where Rammy is incorrect in a detail) gave support to the attorney from the 2009 case (not the FBI). The attorney is on film saying the only person who voluntarily called him back and offered everything he had was Trump. There are rumours, however, that Trump met Melania through such circles. Unconfirmed, but the rumours are there.

2) Epstein wasn't running a kiddy-fiddling operation so much as he was running a blackmail operation - setting people up to be video taped so they could be owned. Most likely for Mossad but Epstein does have strong CIA ties going all the way back to Iran-Contra and Adnan Khashoggi - and how much of a difference is there between Mossad and the CIA anyways, right? Check out the series by Whitney Webb on mintpressnews.com - it's a great series on the history of this stuff and Epstein.

3) Epstein is a peek through the door into what is coming. You think this is bad? Buckle up, kiddo.

Yes, sorry you are right, It was the attorney, but I think that it was helpful to the FBI later on.

I hope you are right Hollywood, on it only being a peek through the window, but I've been hearing this since Trump became President and still nothing. He has all the evidence in the world at his finger tips if he wants it, he just need to access the NSA drag net databases. It's all there on EVERYBODY. So what's stopping him ffs. Just get William Binney onto it.

My fear is in the end very little will actually come out and only a few lower level scapegoats will go down.

 

[TheRam]

The only facts that are known about Trump us that he is a known philanderer, adulterer, grabs ‘em by the pussy condoner of misogyny, owner of the perve fest Miss Universe, the recipient of scores of sexual assault claims and *former* pal of Epstein. Apart from accommodating Ghislaine Maxwell at his properties to recruit young vulnerable girls for Epstein, there is no evidence that he indulged in sex with under age girls. I think it’s fair to say however, that most people are justifiably cautious to accept his claims of innocence.

So you find it surprising that women throw themselves onto billionaires and that the billionaires take advantage of it and that such powerful men are philanderers and adulterers? None of those said sexual assault claims held up to vigorous or even mild probing or investigation and funny how they only started coming out randomly once he threw his hat in the ring for President.

As for accommodating Ghislaine in recruiting young girls, yeah sure mate, you were obviously there. Oh you weren't? Well then I call fake news by another enraged lefty who likes to draw pretty little pictures for others to think about. At least you told the truth in that there is no evidence that he partook in sex crimes and of course you have a right to be a cautious man.

It's a pity though you haven't shown such in depth caution in regards to both Clinton's well documented litany of crimes spanning decades. Oh that's right, they're on the Blue team side. Winning.

So to my way of thinking, knowing someone for 15 years and being buddies for the whole time are two different things mate. For example we've been forumites for what, over 12 years now? I would hardly call us pen pals.

 

[TheRam]

Yeah I know. Cardinal George Pell used to hang around swimming pool change rooms when young boys were getting changed. Often he'd be naked himself, striking up conversations. No harm done ?

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...to-young-boys-at-surf-club-says-victorian-man

Good story that. Trump was right there next to them handing out the towels if anyone needed them that is.

 

[TheRam]

You can have your opinion and I can have mine. I'm not a Trump hater, just attempting to put together the pieces based on what I know. I should of left the conversation between yourself and Gronk who you originally aimed your criticisms at.

You said kids need advocates. Advocates for what? There are already enough people with deeply entrenched views on either side of the debate. All of them pushing what they perceive as the truth.

They need balance. They need to know that Greta Thunberg is ONE viewpoint. They need to know that Trump is neither a hero nor a complete f**k up of a president. That's what's missing right now.

Anyway, I respect your views mate.

For kids that are being horribly mistreated they need us adults not to be political(partisan) but to get angry enough to demand action or be the action to protect them. In other words give them a voice. They can't do that for themselves mate no matter how hard they might try. Children are defenseless under the paedophile machine that exists today. Only complete transparency and maybe, I say maybe, Trump can change that for the better.

But I am a Trump realist and don't think he is as good or great as most of his supporters think or say he is, so I am not holding my breathe for any real developments on this front. Trump for me is better then the lot that have been before him, but he is still a long way short from being a man I can get totally behind. I suppose the best I can hope for at this point unfortunately.

 

[TheRam]

Well mate, their dishonesty is well established and well documented, and given Trump is a major donor to them, and their very obvious right wing bias, I doubt very much they'll be running an expose on him ( or anyone else from the right ) any time soon.

Good luck to you if you think that their brand of targeted bias and deceit constitutes journalism at all, let alone "true journalism".

Their dishonesty? Have you looked at the endless retractions that the rags of record that you have been quoting have had to do? My God man get a grip. PV is hardly anywhere in their league when it comes to bias or dishonest reporting.

Oh so you have a problem with right wing reporting but no probs with left. Good to know. End of debate then. You are a self confessed bias team player. Your choice. I hope it works out for you and your family.

Me I just want to see what is right get done no matter what colour tie they wear.

 

[TheRam]

Nonsense.

The mainstream media covers the gamut of Liberalism through to conservatism, and left through to right.

Delusional.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Nonsense.

The mainstream media covers the gamut of Liberalism through to conservatism, and left through to right.

I agree with this. Alan Jones, New Limited and Sky News are all right leaning.

 

[Bandwagon]

Their dishonesty? Have you looked at the endless retractions that the rags of record that you have been quoting have had to do? My God man get a grip. PV is hardly anywhere in their league when it comes to bias or dishonest reporting.

Oh so you have a problem with right wing reporting but no probs with left. Good to know. End of debate then. You are a self confessed bias team player. Your choice. I hope it works out for you and your family.

Me I just want to see what is right get done no matter what colour tie they wear.

Just Lmao at this mate, they reflect your opinions so they are reliable, it just so happens their expose's only ever target the liberal side of politics, yet you wanna stand there commending them as true journalism, and pretend every contrarian view is flawed by bias.

Not to mention that need to make up a position for me that I have simply not expressed in order to form some kind of smooth brained rebuttal.

Your accusations of bias are only slightly less ridiculous than your claim to impartiality.

And on and end note. Keep my f**king family out of the discussion.

 

[TheRam]

I agree with this. Alan Jones, New Limited and Sky News are all right leaning.

All 3 of those are the same organisation or work for the same organisation. Yeah there are heaps, if you say so.

 

[Bandwagon]

I agree with this. Alan Jones, New Limited and Sky News are all right leaning.

Here's the thing, the current business model we see of the mainstream media out of the US in particular, where targeted bias and opinion posing as news are the staples with which to gain viewers, was fathered by none other than that famous lefty Murdoch, through Fox News.

The Left leaning equivalents are nothing more than the bastard offspring of that.

 

[Bandwagon]

All 3 of those are the same organisation or work for the same organisation. Yeah there are heaps, if you say so.

Nope,

Jones works for Macquarie Media which is majority owned by Nine entertainment co, nothing to do with NewsCorp, who own Sky and News limited.

So that's the two largest media holding companies in Australia.