OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[the phantom menace]

Good insights Suity. And a good looking deck imo - did you do the roof extension as well?

 

[hindy111]

Building inspections, as @hindy111 says, are a joke. So many covenants in their reports covering their own arses.
I'm lucky due to the fact that 45 years of commercial, industrial and residential industry experience has given me the knowledge to do my own inspections.

That's different to certification of building work though. Certification has certainly toughened up, as Twiz says. But that is not always good either.

I had a framing inspection today on site for a deck I am currently building in the Hills District. The inspector (an employee of the certification company who was no older than early 20's) had absolutely no idea what he was looking at.
How do I know this? Simply because of the questions I was being asked. Yet I am beholden to these clowns to get final approvals and occupation certificates, to sign my jobs off. The questions I was being asked I would expect from an inquisitive 2nd year apprentice carpenter. I don't suffer fools lightly.
I let him know that and also the fact that I had already had the framing inspected by an engineer, who they cannot override. It was a waste of the clients money, having to pay for this inspection and a waste of my working time having to deal with him.

With regards to built units/high rise construction, I went and looked at a rental unit in Castle Hill 4 years ago when I was unfortunately entering the rental market. I would only have been renting, but the workmanship of these units in this tower was absolutely appalling. Needless to say, I didn't sign a lease. These were brand new apartments adjacent to the Castle Hill metro station. Toplace built the Tower blocks. Run by Jean Nassif who is now in hiding in Lebanon and has left his daughter facing potentially multi million dollar fraud charges here in Oz.
Toplace has since started another 5 tower multi story development adjacent to Castle Towers which has come to a complete halt due to construction issues.

I agree with whoever said before not to buy in a unit block less than 20 years old and 3 stories high. I used to own one such residence at Concord West. It was as strong as f**k. Sadly, it had to be sold but that's where I'd be residing these days if not for personal circumstances.

Anyway the deck that I had inspected today. Hardly an issue for an inspector with knowledge.

View attachment 86108

Still some work to do to finish off trims and other stuff. Don't judge me yet.

Agree 100%. I think the fact the 100,000s of people have bought these lemons not knowing is a crime. Ruined many peoples lives.

 

[Suitman]

Good insights Suity. And a good looking deck imo - did you do the roof extension as well?

I don't ever reply to you but I'll make an exception this time.
How on earth do you think I built the deck without building the roof as well?
It is all one structure ffs.

 

[Twizzle]

No. I used to but it's a bit to physical and repetitivefor me. I work on high tech automation projects mainly nowdays. Stuff you wouldn't understand even. Way over your head.

yeah, you're right

tradies always carry the engineers and make them look good

 

[hindy111]

yeah, you're right

tradies always carry the engineers and makem them look good

You're an engineeer?

 

[Twizzle]

You're an engineeer?

I thought you might have picked up on that by now

we only do commercial developments so we have nothing to do with houses

 

[Suitman]

yeah, you're right

tradies always carry the engineers and make them look good

Don't get so cocky mate.
On this very deck I showed you a photo of, I had to sack an engineer who was engaged by the client who honestly didn't have a clue. I'm serious.
Some of the stuff he designed was embarrassing. Let me give you some examples.

- He insisted that we insert the 6 mtr tall timber posts 1.5 metres into concrete piers. (what happens to the deck when the timber posts rot out?) I told him I would not build this structure like this, so he came up with an even worse solution.
- Knee bracing to the posts and beams when I refused to insert the timber posts into the concrete piers and insisted on keeping the posts above ground level.
- He did not accept my advice to use diagonal and tensioned metal bracing as opposed to the knee bracing, which looks like absolute shit and was done away with in the 80's.

As it turned out, my engineer approved my adjustments to the previous engineer's designs. Nothing dodgy. He just knows that I know how to build a simple construction as a deck. It ain't hard.
Not all engineer's know what they are talking about. Every trade/industry has their dodgy hopeless people. Engineer's included.

 

[Twizzle]

Don't get so cocky mate.
On this very deck I showed you a photo of, I had to sack an engineer who was engaged by the client who honestly didn't have a clue. I'm serious.

I'm not at all surprised, I've seen work done by mechanical and electrical engineers and I wouldn't feed them, I don't know how they passed high school let alone university

same could be said for some builders and tradies

I guess it just depends on whether we take pride in our work or not

 

[Suitman]

I'm not at all surprised, I've seen work done by mechanical and electrical engineers and I wouldn't feed them, I don't know how they passed high school let alone university

same could be said for some builders and tradies

I guess it just depends on whether we take pride in our work or not

And that was exactly my point.
I have no doubt that you do. I do as well.
I'm frankly sick of the building industry getting dragged down and regarded as not giving a shite, full of poor tradesman and builders. It ain't always the case, but yes, they are out there and the minority are giving us better trades people a bad rep.
My current clients have had another tradie/builder in to do other work while I have been building this deck.
This tradesman is as rough as guts. His work is appalling.
I today advised them to not ever use him again, after the certifier picked up so many issues regarding his work.
I knew about these issues already but it wasn't my place to advise them.
It is these types that shouldn't have a licence to build, or even to do any trade work tbh. This guy is really that bad. His work is shameful. I really get sick and tired of seeing such carelessness.

 

[the phantom menace]

I don't ever reply to you but I'll make an exception this time.
How on earth do you think I built the deck without building the roof as well?
It is all one structure ffs.

Well I assumed, but I don't know these things so was just checking.

If my powerball numbers ever come in I'd love to have something similar, and your work there looks good mate

 

[hindy111]

And that was exactly my point.
I have no doubt that you do. I do as well.
I'm frankly sick of the building industry getting dragged down and regarded as not giving a shite, full of poor tradesman and builders. It ain't always the case, but yes, they are out there and the minority are giving us better trades people a bad rep.
My current clients have had another tradie/builder in to do other work while I have been building this deck.
This tradesman is as rough as guts. His work is appalling.
I today advised them to not ever use him again, after the certifier picked up so many issues regarding his work.
I knew about these issues already but it wasn't my place to advise them.
It is these types that shouldn't have a licence to build, or even to do any trade work tbh. This guy is really that bad. His work is shameful. I really get sick and tired of seeing such carelessness.

I don't really do domestic anymore but I can't compete price wise and I am a one man band. Cause as you said there are guys rough as guts. Garbage work and garbage materials.
And if you explain to the customer the quality of materials and workmanship and what you do will last forever I reckon half the time they think you are trying to rip them off cause of something they've seen on A current affair and go with the cheapest quote.

I kid you not I had an Air con installed a few years ago and he sealed the holes where pipes went thru wall with old plastic sandwich bags. Luckily I checked before he was paid.

 

[JokerEel]

If you want to see dodgy work..

 

[Gary Gutful]

Building inspections, as @hindy111 says, are a joke. So many covenants in their reports covering their own arses.
I'm lucky due to the fact that 45 years of commercial, industrial and residential industry experience has given me the knowledge to do my own inspections.

That's different to certification of building work though. Certification has certainly toughened up, as Twiz says. But that is not always good either.

I had a framing inspection today on site for a deck I am currently building in the Hills District. The inspector (an employee of the certification company who was no older than early 20's) had absolutely no idea what he was looking at.
How do I know this? Simply because of the questions I was being asked. Yet I am beholden to these clowns to get final approvals and occupation certificates, to sign my jobs off. The questions I was being asked I would expect from an inquisitive 2nd year apprentice carpenter. I don't suffer fools lightly.
I let him know that and also the fact that I had already had the framing inspected by an engineer, who they cannot override. It was a waste of the clients money, having to pay for this inspection and a waste of my working time having to deal with him.

With regards to built units/high rise construction, I went and looked at a rental unit in Castle Hill 4 years ago when I was unfortunately entering the rental market. I would only have been renting, but the workmanship of these units in this tower was absolutely appalling. Needless to say, I didn't sign a lease. These were brand new apartments adjacent to the Castle Hill metro station. Toplace built the Tower blocks. Run by Jean Nassif who is now in hiding in Lebanon and has left his daughter facing potentially multi million dollar fraud charges here in Oz.
Toplace has since started another 5 tower multi story development adjacent to Castle Towers which has come to a complete halt due to construction issues.

I agree with whoever said before not to buy in a unit block less than 20 years old and 3 stories high. I used to own one such residence at Concord West. It was as strong as f**k. Sadly, it had to be sold but that's where I'd be residing these days if not for personal circumstances.

Anyway the deck that I had inspected today. Hardly an issue for an inspector with knowledge.

View attachment 86108

Still some work to do to finish off trims and other stuff. Don't judge me yet.

I think yourself and Hindy make more sense than others based on your practical experience.

What you both say rings true.

Wife and I bought a unit in Brisbane CBD a while back. Rental returns were OK, but over time it became a problem.

So many issues with the building given it was less than 2 years old. Body corporate was dealing with a tidal wave of shit. So glad we were able to sell the place to someone else before it became a major problem.

If the place has a life of more than 20 years I’ll be stunned.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Don't get so cocky mate.
On this very deck I showed you a photo of, I had to sack an engineer who was engaged by the client who honestly didn't have a clue. I'm serious.
Some of the stuff he designed was embarrassing. Let me give you some examples.

- He insisted that we insert the 6 mtr tall timber posts 1.5 metres into concrete piers. (what happens to the deck when the timber posts rot out?) I told him I would not build this structure like this, so he came up with an even worse solution.
- Knee bracing to the posts and beams when I refused to insert the timber posts into the concrete piers and insisted on keeping the posts above ground level.
- He did not accept my advice to use diagonal and tensioned metal bracing as opposed to the knee bracing, which looks like absolute shit and was done away with in the 80's.

As it turned out, my engineer approved my adjustments to the previous engineer's designs. Nothing dodgy. He just knows that I know how to build a simple construction as a deck. It ain't hard.
Not all engineer's know what they are talking about. Every trade/industry has their dodgy hopeless people. Engineer's included.

My somewhat ignorant take is that many tradies are squeezed on major developments.

A lot of promise given and a lot of $ exchanged that by the time it gets to someone who knows what they are doing it’s too late.

That’s not to say there aren’t dodgy tradies, but the real dodgy sits with the developers imo.

 

[Gronk]

I think yourself and Hindy make more sense than others based on your practical experience.

What you both say rings true.

Wife and I bought a unit in Brisbane CBD a while back. Rental returns were OK, but over time it became a problem.

So many issues with the building given it was less than 2 years old. Body corporate was dealing with a tidal wave of shit. So glad we were able to sell the place to someone else before it became a major problem.

If the place has a life of more than 20 years I’ll be stunned.

Actually I don’t think anyone took a position that it was a good idea to buy in a medium to large strata building these days. The caveat to that position is that buildings recently commenced are under a different set of “rules” at least in NSW.

Residential Apartment Buildings (Compliance and Enforcement Powers) Bill 2020

www.parliament.nsw.gov.au

Ten year defect insurance for apartment buildings

Ten year (decennial) liability insurance is a new insurance product in Australia that enables owners corporations to have a serious defect fixed up to ten years after an apartment building is first occupied.

www.nsw.gov.au

I personally would buy from Mirvac, Lend Lease, Frasers, Central Element, Togo etc NOT because they are 100% perfect, but because they have a proven track record of having a responsible attitude to the rectification of defects. Unlike a certain sponsor of the team we played plast week who seems to think that running block plays and vexatiously pushing Owner Corporations to resolve issues of defects in the Supreme Court is some sort of a good business model. FFS

https://acsl.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/The_Owners_-_Strata_Plan_No._51077_v_Meriton_Apartments_Pty_Ltd_2014_NSWSC_129.pdf

 

[hindy111]

My somewhat ignorant take is that many tradies are squeezed on major developments.

A lot of promise given and a lot of $ exchanged that by the time it gets to someone who knows what they are doing it’s too late.

That’s not to say there aren’t dodgy tradies, but the real dodgy sits with the developers imo.

Yeah I don't know. I think there is a mixture of what you said and also

A - Tradies who have learnt off rough tradies and don't even realise there work is poor quality. Or just lack knowledge/experience.

B - Good tradies who do a rough job cause it's all about time and money and they don't care aslong as get paid.

 

[hindy111]

I think yourself and Hindy make more sense than others based on your practical experience.

What you both say rings true.

Wife and I bought a unit in Brisbane CBD a while back. Rental returns were OK, but over time it became a problem.

So many issues with the building given it was less than 2 years old. Body corporate was dealing with a tidal wave of shit. So glad we were able to sell the place to someone else before it became a major problem.

If the place has a life of more than 20 years I’ll be stunned.

All the ones in homebush now are about that 15-20yr mark. Looked at a few with a friend and they are looking like ghettos

 

[the phantom menace]

And those ones built at Homebush north of the railway always did, imo. It's crazy how many flats they tried to pump in there so quickly.

 

[Gronk]

All the ones in homebush now are about that 15-20yr mark. Looked at a few with a friend and they are looking like ghettos

The street appeal of buildings has more to do with Owners Corporations not keeping up-to-date with painting and landscaping, don't you think ?

As for "Homebush", Newington (Athletes Village) is nice.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

And Wentworth Point is OK too

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[hindy111]

Actually I don’t think anyone took a position that it was a good idea to buy in a medium to large strata building these days. The caveat to that position is that buildings recently commenced are under a different set of “rules” at least in NSW.

Residential Apartment Buildings (Compliance and Enforcement Powers) Bill 2020

www.parliament.nsw.gov.au

Ten year defect insurance for apartment buildings

Ten year (decennial) liability insurance is a new insurance product in Australia that enables owners corporations to have a serious defect fixed up to ten years after an apartment building is first occupied.

www.nsw.gov.au

I personally would buy from Mirvac, Lend Lease, Frasers, Central Element, Togo etc NOT because they are 100% perfect, but because they have a proven track record of having a responsible attitude to the rectification of defects. Unlike a certain sponsor of the team we played plast week who seems to think that running block plays and vexatiously pushing Owner Corporations to resolve issues of defects in the Supreme Court is some sort of a good business model. FFS

https://acsl.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/The_Owners_-_Strata_Plan_No._51077_v_Meriton_Apartments_Pty_Ltd_2014_NSWSC_129.pdf

If someone's installing cheap appliances/air cons/light fittings. Things you can see then id stay away. It shows what type of tradies are on the projects or how saving money.