What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Ot. Hallelujah and praise the lord

Generalzod

Immortal
Messages
33,861
The truth is labor needs to figure out who it represents the inner city hippies or the working class of Western Sydney
 
Messages
4,213
3. Stop using Climate Change as their cornerstone policy because it doesn’t capture the majority thinking as the most important thing in Australia. (Anyone that thinks that man can change anything about the world’s climate seriously needs their head read)

Lol. Ummm Its not their cornerstone policy, Unions would never allow them to stop the gravy train.
Please be careful next time you are in a boat not to sail over the edge. Maybe take a plane ... Oh wait They are too heavy .couldn't possibly fly! Well just walk then . When you get back Ill get a nice cool drink of water for you .... Its Full of E.coli ............ Did I fool ya?. Naaaah No smart dude like you is going to fall for some ridiculous scientific discovery that some invisible things in a perfectly fine glass of water could kill you. Good thinking! Drink up!! Good thing Majority thinking is always right.
Anyway definitely My last post about the election
Hurry up and start Footbrawl. Only thing that makes sense ..GO SHARKS SMASH MANLY
 
Last edited:

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Sadly, the people here who have no idea about science (even though they trust it in all areas that don't undermine their preconceived conceptions, arbitrarily invented by conservatives to protect their mates with mining interests) are perfectly correct in regards to climate change as a political issue.

Which is one reason why democracy, despite being the worst political system except for all the others, may end up destroying modern civilisation.

Climate change is a real concern to many people (the main concern in an otherwise pretty comfortable modern existence for many of us). But it has not captured the imagination of swinging, or "soft" voters.

It is, as Abbott said, a moral issue in wealthier areas, but not an issue likely to concern "working suburbs" where fears for the basics of a sound economy reign.

Policy to limit the damage of climate change will obviously be opposed by the wilfully ignorant, but the job of progressives in Australia (not in many parts of the world, where conservatives are well on board as well, and the issue is whether direct intervention or market driven solutions are best) is to properly sell the urgent need for action on climate change.

In that regard, the scoffing here of the rusted on conservatives is perfectly valid. Shorten did a very poor job of selling the need for action on climate change, and Get Up also did a very poor job (except maybe helping unseat Abbot, who was out of step with his electorate anyway).

Shorten was also, I agree, a poor choice as leader. The character assassination from blatant abuse of the tools of the state from Abbott may have helped build upon a distrust of Shorten, but his own hand in killing two PMs already meant he was damaged goods. Though Dutton didn't seem to get the same sort of punishment as Abbott or Shorten in that regard.

When a man who is celebrated for his role in locking up children, who can parade coal through parliament like a toy to mock the most serious threat to our grandchildren imaginable, can win when our economy is stagnant and his party of old white men has spent years attacking itself, is the biggest indictment of the progressive parties imaginable.

Like with Trump, the progressives can't just wait for their opponent to trip over. They have to clearly articulate the threats of inaction on climate change, and the danger of a world driven by xenophobia. And then they have to offer a clear alternative and a vision for a better future than the war and terror we face at the moment.
 

Surely

Post Whore
Messages
101,430
Sadly, the people here who have no idea about science (even though they trust it in all areas that don't undermine their preconceived conceptions, arbitrarily invented by conservatives to protect their mates with mining interests) are perfectly correct in regards to climate change as a political issue.

Which is one reason why democracy, despite being the worst political system except for all the others, may end up destroying modern civilisation.

Climate change is a real concern to many people (the main concern in an otherwise pretty comfortable modern existence for many of us). But it has not captured the imagination of swinging, or "soft" voters.

It is, as Abbott said, a moral issue in wealthier areas, but not an issue likely to concern "working suburbs" where fears for the basics of a sound economy reign.

Policy to limit the damage of climate change will obviously be opposed by the wilfully ignorant, but the job of progressives in Australia (not in many parts of the world, where conservatives are well on board as well, and the issue is whether direct intervention or market driven solutions are best) is to properly sell the urgent need for action on climate change.

In that regard, the scoffing here of the rusted on conservatives is perfectly valid. Shorten did a very poor job of selling the need for action on climate change, and Get Up also did a very poor job (except maybe helping unseat Abbot, who was out of step with his electorate anyway).

Shorten was also, I agree, a poor choice as leader. The character assassination from blatant abuse of the tools of the state from Abbott may have helped build upon a distrust of Shorten, but his own hand in killing two PMs already meant he was damaged goods. Though Dutton didn't seem to get the same sort of punishment as Abbott or Shorten in that regard.

When a man who is celebrated for his role in locking up children, who can parade coal through parliament like a toy to mock the most serious threat to our grandchildren imaginable, can win when our economy is stagnant and his party of old white men has spent years attacking itself, is the biggest indictment of the progressive parties imaginable.

Like with Trump, the progressives can't just wait for their opponent to trip over. They have to clearly articulate the threats of inaction on climate change, and the danger of a world driven by xenophobia. And then they have to offer a clear alternative and a vision for a better future than the war and terror we face at the moment.


What are the threats of inaction on climate change ?

When is the world ending if we don't do something ?

Have we not been doing anything, what are all these turbines and solar panels everywhere ?

I'm happy that the science is settled, why are we still throwing money at organisations to prove it ?
 

Windy70

Juniors
Messages
2,276
This why Labor lost the election:

60998048_2214059948682267_3746222036377141248_n.jpg
I stole this General, had to share. funny as
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
What are the threats of inaction on climate change ?

When is the world ending if we don't do something ?

Have we not been doing anything, what are all these turbines and solar panels everywhere ?

I'm happy that the science is settled, why are we still throwing money at organisations to prove it ?

We have been doing things. Even China has been doing things. But not enough.

The main threat of climate change is to our food production. As it is the world does not produce enough food (though it could, it is poor management on a world basis that means we have a lot of people starving). Since we already can't manage our arable land and distribution networks well enough to feed everyone (due to poor political processes throughout the world), rapid change in where and how much food we can grow is likely to result in catastrophic food shortages in many regions.

Another big threat to people is an increase in catastrophic weather events. Of course, these are even worse in areas where there are already food shortages.

Economic threats outside of increased food prices and direct costs of weather events include the collapse of the insurance industries (due to the collapse of the reinsurance industry), the costs of managing millions of climate refugees, and ironically, increased energy costs required to cope with living in extreme temperatures.

There are undoubtedly opportunity costs and threats from mass extinction events as ecosystems are destroyed, but we will likely never know their true extent.

Obviously, the collapse of robust, technologically advanced civilisations like our own requires more than a few shocks. It may be that our Australian grandchildren merely have to live with terrible weather, a poorer economy and less reliable food sources, and the larger threats to countries with less capacity stay overseas.

But the biggest threat to western civilisation will be war over scarce resources. War has been, and will always be a threat, but it increases in likelihood when other systems are under stress.

I'm not sure who is trying to still prove climate change (though many people are still unconvinced. This will always be the way, some people genuinely believe in a flat Earth and still more (including a recently retired education minister) don't believe in evolution). Surely study of climate change is now directed at answering just these questions you have asked.

Asking when is the world ending if we don't take action on climate change is disingenuous. When do we all die if we don't have hospitals? When does the country burn if we don't have fire fighters?

I believe Shorten should have made a better effort to qualify (if not quantify) the effects of climate change, as should anyone hoping to change perceptions on the need for action. There are organisations who are trying to quantify these things (I guess one might mistake that for "still trying to prove it"), but the disadvantage of taking a scientific approach is that one's language should be bounded by probabilities, and possibilities, and nuances. As the world is nuanced.

And the simplified black and white view is an easy sell.
 

Eion

First Grade
Messages
7,991
Sadly, the people here who have no idea about science (even though they trust it in all areas that don't undermine their preconceived conceptions, arbitrarily invented by conservatives to protect their mates with mining interests) are perfectly correct in regards to climate change as a political issue.

Which is one reason why democracy, despite being the worst political system except for all the others, may end up destroying modern civilisation.

Climate change is a real concern to many people (the main concern in an otherwise pretty comfortable modern existence for many of us). But it has not captured the imagination of swinging, or "soft" voters.

It is, as Abbott said, a moral issue in wealthier areas, but not an issue likely to concern "working suburbs" where fears for the basics of a sound economy reign.

Policy to limit the damage of climate change will obviously be opposed by the wilfully ignorant, but the job of progressives in Australia (not in many parts of the world, where conservatives are well on board as well, and the issue is whether direct intervention or market driven solutions are best) is to properly sell the urgent need for action on climate change.

In that regard, the scoffing here of the rusted on conservatives is perfectly valid. Shorten did a very poor job of selling the need for action on climate change, and Get Up also did a very poor job (except maybe helping unseat Abbot, who was out of step with his electorate anyway).

Shorten was also, I agree, a poor choice as leader. The character assassination from blatant abuse of the tools of the state from Abbott may have helped build upon a distrust of Shorten, but his own hand in killing two PMs already meant he was damaged goods. Though Dutton didn't seem to get the same sort of punishment as Abbott or Shorten in that regard.

When a man who is celebrated for his role in locking up children, who can parade coal through parliament like a toy to mock the most serious threat to our grandchildren imaginable, can win when our economy is stagnant and his party of old white men has spent years attacking itself, is the biggest indictment of the progressive parties imaginable.

Like with Trump, the progressives can't just wait for their opponent to trip over. They have to clearly articulate the threats of inaction on climate change, and the danger of a world driven by xenophobia. And then they have to offer a clear alternative and a vision for a better future than the war and terror we face at the moment.
Dude. No one is celebrating locking up children, but plenty are celebrating no more deaths at sea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ads
Messages
15,470
Sadly, the people here who have no idea about science (even though they trust it in all areas that don't undermine their preconceived conceptions, arbitrarily invented by conservatives to protect their mates with mining interests) are perfectly correct in regards to climate change as a political issue.

Which is one reason why democracy, despite being the worst political system except for all the others, may end up destroying modern civilisation.

Climate change is a real concern to many people (the main concern in an otherwise pretty comfortable modern existence for many of us). But it has not captured the imagination of swinging, or "soft" voters.

It is, as Abbott said, a moral issue in wealthier areas, but not an issue likely to concern "working suburbs" where fears for the basics of a sound economy reign.

Policy to limit the damage of climate change will obviously be opposed by the wilfully ignorant, but the job of progressives in Australia (not in many parts of the world, where conservatives are well on board as well, and the issue is whether direct intervention or market driven solutions are best) is to properly sell the urgent need for action on climate change.

In that regard, the scoffing here of the rusted on conservatives is perfectly valid. Shorten did a very poor job of selling the need for action on climate change, and Get Up also did a very poor job (except maybe helping unseat Abbot, who was out of step with his electorate anyway).

Shorten was also, I agree, a poor choice as leader. The character assassination from blatant abuse of the tools of the state from Abbott may have helped build upon a distrust of Shorten, but his own hand in killing two PMs already meant he was damaged goods. Though Dutton didn't seem to get the same sort of punishment as Abbott or Shorten in that regard.

When a man who is celebrated for his role in locking up children, who can parade coal through parliament like a toy to mock the most serious threat to our grandchildren imaginable, can win when our economy is stagnant and his party of old white men has spent years attacking itself, is the biggest indictment of the progressive parties imaginable.

Like with Trump, the progressives can't just wait for their opponent to trip over. They have to clearly articulate the threats of inaction on climate change, and the danger of a world driven by xenophobia. And then they have to offer a clear alternative and a vision for a better future than the war and terror we face at the moment.

Oh I believe in Climate change. The world’s climate has always been changing.

But I’m not foolish to think mankind can change the climate.

It’s actually hilarious that people think the world can change the climate let alone little Australia with it’s contribution to the issue.

Who needs drugs eh?
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Dude. No one is celebrating locking up children, but plenty are celebrating no more deaths at sea.

If you were to take your children with you in a high speed chase from a bank robbery, that would also risk their lives (and yours). Unlike seeking refugee status, that would also unambiguously be illegal and immoral.

What would we say about the politician that locks up those children to act as a deterrent? We don't lock up children to deter the poor decisions of their parents, and we certainly don't do it to score political points. Defending the actions of those politicians is incomprehensible.

It is rather murkier whether those actions have indeed succeeded in fewer deaths at see from reduced people smuggling, without looking at world wide trends.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Oh I believe in Climate change. The world’s climate has always been changing.

But I’m not foolish to think mankind can change the climate.

It’s actually hilarious that people think the world can change the climate let alone little Australia with it’s contribution to the issue.

Who needs drugs eh?

The climate has changed many times, yes, over millions of years.

Now it is changing rapidly over decades.

Saying little old us can't change the climate is like saying we can't deforest the world, or turn the world into a nuclear wasteland. Clearly we have the ability to do all these things. If only we had the wisdom not to.
 

Eion

First Grade
Messages
7,991
If you were to take your children with you in a high speed chase from a bank robbery, that would also risk their lives (and yours). Unlike seeking refugee status, that would also unambiguously be illegal and immoral.

What would we say about the politician that locks up those children to act as a deterrent? We don't lock up children to deter the poor decisions of their parents, and we certainly don't do it to score political points. Defending the actions of those politicians is incomprehensible.

It is rather murkier whether those actions have indeed succeeded in fewer deaths at see from reduced people smuggling, without looking at world wide trends.
It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s better than hundreds drowning, which is what was happening only a few short years ago.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s better than hundreds drowning, which is what was happening only a few short years ago.

If you are going to lock children up to deter the poor decisions of their parents, which I note is not a solution being suggested in any of the many other areas that parents make risky decisions for their children (or we would be locking up the children of drug users, children of people with speeding tickets, obese children, children of anti-vaxers, children who passively smoke at home etc), then you need to absolutely make sure that:

A) your solution is effective- we have no data on that. Indeed, the government actively avoids scrutiny and analysis on that point
B) there are no other solutions. I'm not sure the government has even tried.

If the idea is to hurt some children so that others don't get killed, maybe locking them up is not enough. Maybe we should start torturing them? (though some are pretty tortured from the sounds of it. Though again the government is trying to avoid scrutiny on that too).

So maybe we also need:

C) we need to be comfortable with the moral repercussions of deciding that we are OK with inflicting horrible things on some innocents to avoid horrible things happening to other innocents
 
Messages
15,470
If you were to take your children with you in a high speed chase from a bank robbery, that would also risk their lives (and yours). Unlike seeking refugee status, that would also unambiguously be illegal and immoral.

What would we say about the politician that locks up those children to act as a deterrent? We don't lock up children to deter the poor decisions of their parents, and we certainly don't do it to score political points. Defending the actions of those politicians is incomprehensible.

It is rather murkier whether those actions have indeed succeeded in fewer deaths at see from reduced people smuggling, without looking at world wide trends.

Well the action worked because it stopped the boats.

No children will be locked up now because there is no more boats.

No more children drowning at sea because there is no more boats.

You need to have strong policies for the stupidity at sea to stop and that is why the Liberals have been voted 3 times in a row.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ads
Messages
15,470
The climate has changed many times, yes, over millions of years.

Now it is changing rapidly over decades.

Saying little old us can't change the climate is like saying we can't deforest the world, or turn the world into a nuclear wasteland. Clearly we have the ability to do all these things. If only we had the wisdom not to.

The country has spoken.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
The country has spoken.

Indeed they have.

Not sure they were all saying that climate change is not a desperate issue that is being caused by humanity, nor even a majority were saying that.

But if we want some action on this most dire of issues, political parties and groups definitely need to articulate the reasons better, even if there will always be some hold outs who are driven more by ideology than reason.
 

Latest posts

Top