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Ot. Hallelujah and praise the lord

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Dont bother with that one quigs I was on a forum a few yrs back where a smart fellow was saying that all predictions about CFCs and ozone layer were rubbish and had never eventuated never happened blah blah Another poster put up two pages of real Data from a long study that was done by absolutely reputable institutions with no political Agendas . Without even glancing at it the denialist simply immediately repeated his ridiculous denial . Only fools argue with fools.They have to take a stance and be strong! Unfortunately its now certain history will show them as fools sadly I wish I was wrong. Only interest left in this debate on this forum is how long before DS says we could fit entire population of world into QLD with 1mtr Sq each So how could we possibly be overpopulating ,polluting the earth,and changing the climate and environment? He must be saving that as his knockout blow.
.

There is plenty of evidence that people double down on their beliefs when given evidence to the contrary.

See for example https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-convince-someone-when-facts-fail/?redirect=1

As this article shows, there are ways to combat that, but in terms of climate change, I think there are plenty of people without firm convictions about the cause or effects, who just don't know enough to care.

And the weakness of Shorten, and Get Up, and the Greens (though they are of course distinct organisations, contrary to some opinion) as pointed out by some of their opponents in this thread, are that they are not doing a good job convincing people who don't have a strong position, that they should care.
 

Quigs

Immortal
Messages
34,825
And spend over 150 mill to reopen Christmas Island for a convenient photo op....

That'll show em we mean business
 

Eion

First Grade
Messages
7,991

If we could prevent child deaths from locking up the children of reckless parents, what are the parameters that would satisfy you that would make this OK? I don't have to define those parameters because I'm not OK with locking children up (and I'm broadly utilitarian, which means I actually would be OK with locking children up to save others, if it could be shown to have that effect and if we could be OK living in a world where that is a normal practice. Thankfully I'm not convinced of either.).

How do you know there are no more boats? How do you know there are no more drownings? Even if you disregard the "alternative" drownings as people smugglers go to different areas instead (which you shouldn't), for "operational security" reasons we are not being told if there are drownings or boats.

The Liberals and Labor share the same policy, I'm being told, in regard to locking up kids, so that can't be why they have been voted in 3 times in a row. Obviously it is a bit more complicated than that. But in regards to "boat people", plenty of people support the policy because they are xenophobic. That doesn't make it good policy, and that doesn't make the people voting for it "correct".

Others may have genuine concern for people drowning at sea. In that case, we need our political parties to be open. They need to share data about the effects of the policy. They need to allow studies to see if it is effective. They need to treat the policy like any other policy that has negative and positive effects and compare them. But they don't (well, no party compares its own policy and finds it failing, but we need the media, NGOs, and other political parties for example, to have access to the data to discuss the policies).

I would have thought that locking up children is a last resort, if used at all. I have not seen any attempts to justify this policy that aren't glib and slogan driven. No serious analysis. No discussion of alternatives. Maybe we could try....not locking children up? But still not allowing boat people to settle if we want a deterrent? Maybe we could process claims more efficiently, so kids don't spend years locked up. Maybe we could allow children to be part of a community, and receive adequate medical care, even as we process the claims of their parents? These are just a few suggestions, I'm sure policy makers not hell bent on scoring political points with racists could think of more.

So what other answers do you want before you lock children up? Surely you get all your ducks in a row, as it were, before you even consider it?

And surely you examine the issues in detail again and again, to check that it is the best policy?

Instead, our PM rants about letting murderers in when we want locked up people to have medical care, while he is busy letting murderers in.

And is it still an issue? Well, it may be. But the reason it was raised in the first place was because our newly elected PM was the champion of that policy (and is supposedly a good Christian man). So if our PM is happy to lock children up to score political points, and people are OK with him doing that, I think that has consequences for the way our society develops in the next few years.
We’ve gone from 200 deaths per annum to 0, and you want to go back? Beg to differ.
 
Messages
15,470
I can remember as a youngun when the Parra river west of the Harbour Bridge was declared a dead river. Too munch shit and chemical being poured into it.

Drastic changes were made and maybe youse can tell me how that went. Beautiful Syd-a-ney Harbour.

No one is talking about not reducing pollution. Everyone is for reducing pollution.

That is the thing with the left and communist greens. We question the fact that you cannot change the course of the climate and suddenly we are apparently anti fixing pollution in the world.

The majority are getting very sick of that attitude.
 
Messages
15,470

If we could prevent child deaths from locking up the children of reckless parents, what are the parameters that would satisfy you that would make this OK? I don't have to define those parameters because I'm not OK with locking children up (and I'm broadly utilitarian, which means I actually would be OK with locking children up to save others, if it could be shown to have that effect and if we could be OK living in a world where that is a normal practice. Thankfully I'm not convinced of either.).

How do you know there are no more boats? How do you know there are no more drownings? Even if you disregard the "alternative" drownings as people smugglers go to different areas instead (which you shouldn't), for "operational security" reasons we are not being told if there are drownings or boats.

The Liberals and Labor share the same policy, I'm being told, in regard to locking up kids, so that can't be why they have been voted in 3 times in a row. Obviously it is a bit more complicated than that. But in regards to "boat people", plenty of people support the policy because they are xenophobic. That doesn't make it good policy, and that doesn't make the people voting for it "correct".

Others may have genuine concern for people drowning at sea. In that case, we need our political parties to be open. They need to share data about the effects of the policy. They need to allow studies to see if it is effective. They need to treat the policy like any other policy that has negative and positive effects and compare them. But they don't (well, no party compares its own policy and finds it failing, but we need the media, NGOs, and other political parties for example, to have access to the data to discuss the policies).

I would have thought that locking up children is a last resort, if used at all. I have not seen any attempts to justify this policy that aren't glib and slogan driven. No serious analysis. No discussion of alternatives. Maybe we could try....not locking children up? But still not allowing boat people to settle if we want a deterrent? Maybe we could process claims more efficiently, so kids don't spend years locked up. Maybe we could allow children to be part of a community, and receive adequate medical care, even as we process the claims of their parents? These are just a few suggestions, I'm sure policy makers not hell bent on scoring political points with racists could think of more.

So what other answers do you want before you lock children up? Surely you get all your ducks in a row, as it were, before you even consider it?

And surely you examine the issues in detail again and again, to check that it is the best policy?

Instead, our PM rants about letting murderers in when we want locked up people to have medical care, while he is busy letting murderers in.

And is it still an issue? Well, it may be. But the reason it was raised in the first place was because our newly elected PM was the champion of that policy (and is supposedly a good Christian man). So if our PM is happy to lock children up to score political points, and people are OK with him doing that, I think that has consequences for the way our society develops in the next few years.

I find it very amusing that you worry about in the past children were locked up with their parents under a Liberal Government. But all the drownings at sea under a Labor government was not as bad. You think that is the best way for immigration to work and people smugglers should be getting a cut?

You lefties make me laugh.

I believe in an orderly immigration policy not queue jumpers who go from Country to country until they can get to Australia.

How do we know the boats have stopped?

If they weren’t I’m sure the detention centres would be packed yeah?
 
Messages
4,213
No one is talking about not reducing pollution. Everyone is for reducing pollution.

That is the thing with the left and communist greens. We question the fact that you cannot change the course of the climate and suddenly we are apparently anti fixing pollution in the world.

The majority are getting very sick of that attitude.

Why are you worried about what lefty communists and greens say about Climate change ? Please be serious and try finding out what the scientific studies say. Oh and if y'all "majority "types really must be sick ,try not to contaminate our oceans and waterways with your fecal matter and vomit.You did say "EVERYONE " is for reducing pollution . Who the bloody hell is doing the polluting then?
 
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txta2

First Grade
Messages
5,175
I'm not going to argue about climate change but the worst thing about the current government is that currently land clearing is the worst this country has seen since early settlement. Add to that the current nsw govt has added only very small parcels of land for national parks due to funding cuts.
That is what the real worry for the future this country faces. Natural resources, what natural resources?
 
Messages
15,179
There were a lot of posts going on in here yesterday while our game was on

And here I thought that the Cronulla Sharks were here to break down all divides of life, to co exist peacefully, love one another, and spawn many child's of Satan

I think I was only right on one of those accounts
 

sharknows

Bench
Messages
2,752
There were a lot of posts going on in here yesterday while our game was on

And here I thought that the Cronulla Sharks were here to break down all divides of life, to co exist peacefully, love one another, and spawn many child's of Satan

I think I was only right on one of those accounts
Practice what you preach.
 

carinashark

First Grade
Messages
5,573
I feel sorry for anyone who will need NDIS. The new government will slow its roll out right down to a trickle with staff cuts and out sourcing. Then there is all the other cuts like ATO and Health services.
 
Messages
15,470
There were a lot of posts going on in here yesterday while our game was on

And here I thought that the Cronulla Sharks were here to break down all divides of life, to co exist peacefully, love one another, and spawn many child's of Satan

I think I was only right on one of those accounts

The football was mind numbing.

Whilst lefties are crying over 3 more years of Liberal Government I was crying over 2.5 years of Dugan in a Sharks Jersey.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
But we accepted a leader who believes in a made up US happy clapper cult.
Praise the lord

Correct ,but at least it's out there. I'm still awaiting the hidden costs of the you beaut emissions policy ,that was apparently hidden or in the too hard basket.
If some "expert "can claim it cost X amount on estimates ,and Shorten call sit BS.Then show that it's BS with fiigures. Then he might have got more votes.
 
Messages
15,470
Liberal/Nationals could end up with as much as 78 seats.

Zali the Government has a mandate to implement it’s policies. They don’t need your vote and don’t need you!

Sit down and shut up until your ass hits the road next election.
 
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Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,816
Like things would change for me.

Does not matter Labor/Liberal, very similar and neither make a difference to my day to day life.
 

Quigs

Immortal
Messages
34,825
Maybe but youse still got the Maggot Dutton, Kevin Andrews and a few other nutjobs that will destroy the joint rather than vote against their agendas.

Wonder if Anti Abortion reform will surface now. It is gods will youse know.

I'll just sit back and watch it all unfold. I love living in the 60s and the 70s.

During the past four five weeks or so have you seriously thought of why a bloke would spend 40, 50, 60 million on political ads when realistically his team had buckleys chance of getting elected to the House of Reps in the recent election.

I'll let you all in on a little secret. And also it is always best to follow the money trail. (and no this is not Adani, it is Clives)
@DanaScully2
Palmer got approval for his mine before the election; it wasn’t reported anywhere except on his company website. #Insiders

http://iminco.net/clive-palmer-6-4-billion-gaillee-basin-mine-approval/
 

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