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Our Young Guns v Others

SBD82

Coach
Messages
15,889
Ok let me put it another way tell me who in reserve grade has put their hand up with form that undeniably warrants selection?

Unfortunately everything in here is predicated on so & so in 1st grade should be dropped due to their form but nobody ever posts that so & so in reserves is so electric they must be included

Selection by default rather than merit.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

My question, in case you missed it:

How do you motivate young players to buy into a culture of merit, when you don’t use a merit based system to select the team?
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
15,004
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

My question, in case you missed it:

How do you motivate young players to buy into a culture of merit, when you don’t use a merit based system to select the team?
That was not your question so best you go back and read what you posted and your inference in your original post is that the young guns are not selected due to Hook having favourites.
So it is not at all obtuse for me to suggest that their form in reserves is not actually warranting selection and if not being selected due to poor form is not enough to motivate them then they nothing will ever motivate them
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
15,889
That was not your question so best you go back and read what you posted and your inference in your original post is that the young guns are not selected due to Hook having favourites.
So it is not at all obtuse for me to suggest that their form in reserves is not actually warranting selection and if not being selected due to poor form is not enough to motivate them then they nothing will ever motivate them
You might want to read it again

How do you teach young players that they need to earn their spot when McCullough, Woods and Mbye are selected every week?
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
15,004
You might want to read it again
I did and I stand by what I said & inferred

You are implying that Hook selects the old brigade every week regardless of what they young guns do so therefore they have no motivation

I am suggesting that Hook selects the old brigade because the young guns don’t play well enough in reserve grade to warrant selection

So if the young guns can’t motivate themselves to have undeniable credentials to be selected then that is on their heads.

Any expectation that they will be selected because the old brigade don’t play well is a false and lazy expectation on their part.

Happy to be informed about any young gun who has constantly lit it up in reserves and deserves his shot and has been denied it.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
15,889
I did and I stand by what I said & inferred

You are implying that Hook selects the old brigade every week regardless of what they young guns do so therefore they have no motivation

I am suggesting that Hook selects the old brigade because the young guns don’t play well enough in reserve grade to warrant selection

So if the young guns can’t motivate themselves to have undeniable credentials to be selected then that is on their heads.

Any expectation that they will be selected because the old brigade don’t play well is a false and lazy expectation on their part.

Happy to be informed about any young gun who has constantly lit it up in reserves and deserves his shot and has been denied it.
Not really sure why I bother OT. You just make up a viewpoint for me and then argue against it.
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
7,105
A Good culture is all about individuals doing everything in their power to make it to the NRL. A great part of this is being focussed and ignoring side issues like other players & selections ( I can only control what I am doing mantra ) sooo... I assume the club is trying to change culture so our young players follow these principals. We have Elliott & other staff who work with our players on this. I look at Bud and see it ( it's a shame he has been injured too much ) but I dont see it in Sloan and to a lesser extent in Amone. They dont or have not shown a willingness to do the one percenter efforts and you can include Ford, Kerr, Burns etc as no one has banged the door down from reggies to demand NRL selection. Dont know how much their coach Aitkin takes responsibility for this as well.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
15,004
Our fade outs in 1st grade and leaking of points in the 2nd half are rightfully identified as being unacceptable and we have copped a couple of real pastings and on average leak a tick over 22 points per game.

For the record our reserve grade team is running 8th and leaking a tick over 27 points per game so if those are the results that people think justify promotion to 1st grade then that is part of our problem.

If trey were running top 4 and leaking less than 18 as is the average of the top 5 teams then a case may be mounted but they are in fact more pathetic than 1st grade.

So individual performance is the only way they will move forward and as I have asked several times by all means someone enlighten me as to who in that team is lighting up reserve grade?

So if these results are based on the assumption that there is no motivation for them to do better because Hook is always picking Moose, Mc Cullough, Mybe etc then they are nothing more than pea hearts with no self pride god help us all if they make 1st grade permanently.

IMO our 1st grade side is predominantly picked on the fact that no 1 in reserve grade is putting enough pressure on to warrant selection.

Let’s not forget when Host, Field etc were languishing in reserves they ar least won the comp and then beat the QLD side.

As I said before sitting back on your haunches with the expectation of being picked based on someone else’s poor form is ill informed and lazy and to me the results of reserve grade indicate that they are employing this theory or perhaps they just aren’t as good as we hope / think they are and I think the latter is more than likely correct.
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,441
IMO our 1st grade side is predominantly picked on the fact that no 1 in reserve grade is putting enough pressure on to warrant selection.
This is it in a nutshell. I don't think the intention was ever to continue to have to play some of these players. I think even Hook said he didn't expect Woods to have to play so many games. But the reality is, we've got no genuine alternatives at the moment.

I've already stated this multiple times, but I feel like the old crew was brought in as a stop gap to allow players to develop. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened. So we've been stuck with the same selections because we've got nothing better at the moment.

What I can't fathom is the belief that they should learn their craft in first grade. By doing this you are essentially weakening a spot in the hope that a player will improve or perform. If they aren't showing genuine signs in ressies, then don't bring them into first grade.
 

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
4,618
Our fade outs in 1st grade and leaking of points in the 2nd half are rightfully identified as being unacceptable and we have copped a couple of real pastings and on average leak a tick over 22 points per game.

For the record our reserve grade team is running 8th and leaking a tick over 27 points per game so if those are the results that people think justify promotion to 1st grade then that is part of our problem.

If trey were running top 4 and leaking less than 18 as is the average of the top 5 teams then a case may be mounted but they are in fact more pathetic than 1st grade.

So individual performance is the only way they will move forward and as I have asked several times by all means someone enlighten me as to who in that team is lighting up reserve grade?

So if these results are based on the assumption that there is no motivation for them to do better because Hook is always picking Moose, Mc Cullough, Mybe etc then they are nothing more than pea hearts with no self pride god help us all if they make 1st grade permanently.

IMO our 1st grade side is predominantly picked on the fact that no 1 in reserve grade is putting enough pressure on to warrant selection.

Let’s not forget when Host, Field etc were languishing in reserves they ar least won the comp and then beat the QLD side.

As I said before sitting back on your haunches with the expectation of being picked based on someone else’s poor form is ill informed and lazy and to me the results of reserve grade indicate that they are employing this theory or perhaps they just aren’t as good as we hope / think they are and I think the latter is more than likely correct.
This is it in a nutshell. I don't think the intention was ever to continue to have to play some of these players. I think even Hook said he didn't expect Woods to have to play so many games. But the reality is, we've got no genuine alternatives at the moment.

I've already stated this multiple times, but I feel like the old crew was brought in as a stop gap to allow players to develop. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened. So we've been stuck with the same selections because we've got nothing better at the moment.

What I can't fathom is the belief that they should learn their craft in first grade. By doing this you are essentially weakening a spot in the hope that a player will improve or perform. If they aren't showing genuine signs in ressies, then don't bring them into first grade.
What Old Timer and True Believer are saying is absolutely spot on and because of this, we are no better off with who we have in our squads as compared to previous years and maybe worse off.

We seemed to be travelling better last year in first grade with the players we had and if the BBQ fiasco didn't take place we could have won a couple of more games and got into the top 8 without all of the subsequent suspensions and termination of Vaughan's contract. But it was what it was and then we thought, OK Hook has the answers, he'll get players that he wants and it turned out that the ones he went after didn't cost too much and whatever wasn't spent could be used to upgrade some other players. Well we now know that what Hook got for us have turned out shite mostly and they were supposed to add depth for suspensions/injuries - they were/are not good enough both in ressies and first grade.

Now the problem is continuing with reports that the club is mainly looking at retention rather than recruitment - retain who? Who in hell is worth retaining from the rabble we have for heaven's sake? Come on Board Members of the Dragons club, don't let us down again and again and again. Put your thinking caps on and remind yourselves of the terrible years we have been going through or have you become too senile to realise that we are just a second rate football club?

If the young guns we have are not performing as expected, then look at other options, just don't sit and wait and wait until the years just go on and on without any advancement in our progress as a club.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
15,889
This thread is now just a bunch of boomers saying that the kids are lazy and that’s why they’re not making first grade.

Maybe the reason that we as a club are completely f**ked is because our board and coach are reflective of this section of our fan base.
 

Smacka

Juniors
Messages
107
Whatever happened to the "he has earned his spot" theory when it comes to football?

If they want to play in the big league then they need to be professional from the get go.

If he he is sitting back on his haunches, being a sook and not having a go then f**k him leave him where he is.

Far too many would be young guns get far too ahead of themselves.
Agree with your comments OT.

In relation to Sloan , this young Fellow spent 5 minutes after the game chatting to my Daughter.
She was taken by how humble , quietly spoken & well mannered he was. His attitude to First Grade was that he has been told what needs to be done to get there & he is working on that. He did not bag the Club at all.
If you recall him escorting his Nan onto the ground pre-game he was very nurturing & took great lengths to make sure She was looked after before he left to join the rest of the Team. I believe this is the characteristic that is holding him back at present ; he is self-effacing & needs to be handled carefully. Many Aboriginal Players are similar & have reflected this in the past when playing at the highest level in the game. They can be brilliant & then seemingly drift away when pressured. Some could construe this as sooking but I feel it is intrinsic in him - he'll come good I'm sure. Maybe we can get Ricky Walford to mentor him.

(I am Aboriginal & am trying to keep an open mind on this young Fellow).
 

Smacka

Juniors
Messages
107
I just watched the Aussie girls win the Commonwealth Games Rugby 7s Gold medal. Can we sign most of those girls to play for our NRL side? They showed speed, shape in attack, aggressive defence, long passes that stuck and they actually supported the play and ran at the gaps! Maybe coach Griffiths could show the video to the team?
Ha ha. The Fijian defence was great too (???). Maybe we should sign them up as well.
 

Smacka

Juniors
Messages
107
This thread is now just a bunch of boomers saying that the kids are lazy and that’s why they’re not making first grade.

Maybe the reason that we as a club are completely f**ked is because our board and coach are reflective of this section of our fan base.
No SBD82 , this is not correct.

The problem is Society itself today.
Kids are not allowed to be COMPETITIVE any more. This starts at School , filters through to Sport and then into Life itself. Students can leave School with an "unscored" HSC result , Kids learn how to play Sports where there is no result recorded - PARTICIPATION IS THE MANTRA - what use is this to them in later days.
I run a small business and employ young People. Historically it takes 10-11 new Starters to find 1 you keep. Employers don't want a Body filling a hole on a Production Line : they need someone actively involved who takes responsibility for the end product. You reap what you sow and this is why so many young Adults struggle today. Living a care-free life , being molly coddled and accepting hand-outs all falls apart when the Benefactor passes.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
15,889
No SBD82 , this is not correct.

The problem is Society itself today.
Kids are not allowed to be COMPETITIVE any more. This starts at School , filters through to Sport and then into Life itself. Students can leave School with an "unscored" HSC result , Kids learn how to play Sports where there is no result recorded - PARTICIPATION IS THE MANTRA - what use is this to them in later days.
I run a small business and employ young People. Historically it takes 10-11 new Starters to find 1 you keep. Employers don't want a Body filling a hole on a Production Line : they need someone actively involved who takes responsibility for the end product. You reap what you sow and this is why so many young Adults struggle today. Living a care-free life , being molly coddled and accepting hand-outs all falls apart when the Benefactor passes.
What a load of boomer crap.
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
7,105
Agree with your comments OT.

In relation to Sloan , this young Fellow spent 5 minutes after the game chatting to my Daughter.
She was taken by how humble , quietly spoken & well mannered he was. His attitude to First Grade was that he has been told what needs to be done to get there & he is working on that. He did not bag the Club at all.
If you recall him escorting his Nan onto the ground pre-game he was very nurturing & took great lengths to make sure She was looked after before he left to join the rest of the Team. I believe this is the characteristic that is holding him back at present ; he is self-effacing & needs to be handled carefully. Many Aboriginal Players are similar & have reflected this in the past when playing at the highest level in the game. They can be brilliant & then seemingly drift away when pressured. Some could construe this as sooking but I feel it is intrinsic in him - he'll come good I'm sure. Maybe we can get Ricky Walford to mentor him.

(I am Aboriginal & am trying to keep an open mind on this young Fellow).
Fair call Smacka, there's no doubt that good clubs cater for all cultures and I'm not suggesting that the Dragons dont but we must invest in players like Bud & Sloan and any other players under 22 to grow. I think with Sloan it may be mental but maturity & bigger body alone should make his transition to NRL a bit more comfortable. One of the impressions that I got from the RedV Q&A night was that Haran conveyed to us that our juniors were in good hands and their contracts signalled that but we as supporters are definitely impatient ( but after the decade we have had, that is another point ). In saying that , would love to see Sloan on the wing for the rest of the season and the Feagai's at centre & wing. Cant see the point at all in playing Molo anymore or Bird anywhere else than in the forwards.
 
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