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OVP's thoughts on the Salary Crap.

Grantwhy

Juniors
Messages
1,285
OVP said:
c_eagle said:
Is America a communist country? The NFL seems to be running pretty well with a salary cap and a 100% cover of this fee by the governing body.

Would you prefer that club who profited heavily from the bastardisation by the Super League crew be ontop by miles, simply because they sold out?

An immensely silly argument ... the NFL/NBA/NHL Salary Cap is WAYYYY over $100 million dollars.

Don't the NFL take the profits the teams make and share them between all their teams, proping up the (financially) weaker ones?
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,627
Grantwhy said:
OVP said:
c_eagle said:
Is America a communist country? The NFL seems to be running pretty well with a salary cap and a 100% cover of this fee by the governing body.

Would you prefer that club who profited heavily from the bastardisation by the Super League crew be ontop by miles, simply because they sold out?

An immensely silly argument ... the NFL/NBA/NHL Salary Cap is WAYYYY over $100 million dollars.

Don't the NFL take the profits the teams make and share them between all their teams, proping up the (financially) weaker ones?

Yes they do .. but the amount of money they are talking about means NO club misses out on anything. You cant say that about league !!
 

Hurriflatch

Referee
Messages
22,093
Why are you complaining now that the Roosters are losing a few players rather then years ago when they were signing the likes of Jason Cayless, Justin Hodges, Chris Walker, Brett Finch, Craig Fitzgibbon and Adrian Morley?

Look, I tend to agree with you that the salary cap needs work especially for the clubs who produce large numbers of juniors who they bring through the grades also I have no problem with teams going to the bush and signing kids at 15-16 briing them through their development programs that shows the clubs willing to scout areas where other clubs don't bother going if no one went to the bush the likes of Lyon, Cannings, Hindmarsh, Parsons and others who slip my mind at 2am may never have gotten into the NRL.

Consessions need to be made to these clubs so all the money they spend on these players from Harold Matthews actually pprofits their club not someone elses.

The biggest problem I have with the attitude change of the likes of the Dogs and Roosters fans isn't so much what they are saying but the fact it is only after their club starts to feel the salary cap that they complain about it (or in the Dogs case when their cheating was discovered) where were your complaints when teams like the Knights, Eels and Panthers were losing players they invested a lot of time and money into and it was the likes of the Roosters and Dogs who were profiting from this? was the salary cap a good idea then?
 

Grantwhy

Juniors
Messages
1,285
OVP said:
I knew Grantwhy would say something ludicrous about the Roosters :roll:

Happy to oblige :D. My appologies if i read something between the lines that wasn't intended.


OVP said:
Kudo's to the rest of you ... you werent that childish :roll:

But cmon Grantwhy .. why indeed ? Wouldnt it be nice to reward a player who did your club proud? And wouldnt it be nice to have the highest paid wages in any sport across the entire country ?

Yes, but 'we' need to be able to afford to do so. Call me Comrade but I don't like the idea that the Premiership goes to those that that have the deepest pockets and I don't like the idea of a salary cap that is higher than many teams could afford to spend.

Hopefully the Free-to-Air and Pay TV rights bring some more funds into the NRL which can be spread out amongst the Clubs allowing the Salary Cap to be raised and the Players earn more.

OVP said:
Cmon !! Perhaps some of the reasons why we've had so much trouble in past off-seasons is because these guys were actually earning TOO LITTLE.

Perhaps, but the sports that are paying more per player also seem to have their share of troubles.
 

bboy_insane

Juniors
Messages
536
Rewards shit management? I disagree. Penrith's management over the past few years has been excellent under Shane Richardson, which saw them go from bottom of the table to the top. Manly, with CEO Paul Cummings is now reaping the rewards of building up its infrastructure. Whereas Newcastle with its ridiculous management is sliding down the table.

All that is happening is a teams lifecycle is shortening. Remeber when teams had dominance over a decade? That has been shortened to only a few years, and if you make mistakes you will be punished as the competition is very very close. Any team can beat any team, and it looks like a positive mental state of a team is the main objective to secure a win.

Without the cap it would a business league. See which club can make the most money to buy the best players to win the competition. Or is that to purchase the competition.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
102,647
Edited: Uncalled for.


I think the cap is far too small, considering it has to take into account a 25 man squad(usually). Whats the cap, 3.5 mill? So for a 25 man squad that's an average of $140 000 per player. Which is ludicrous when you have players who are arguably worth $1 million alone. Clubs struggle to keep stars with that cap. We need a much higher cap to start with. I also think there needs to be some kind of program within the cap to allow clubs to keep local juniors local, while still being able to buy big names from outside. I know at Parramatta we've had to let go a lot of promising juniors over the years because of the cap, it was a decision between the present and the future that shouldn't exist. Maybe an allowance of, say, $2 million for local juniors contracts, on top of a higher cap? Or incentives for local juniors to stay local from the NRL? I'm not sure, I'm not great with this business stuff, but there needs to be something for local juniors who want to stay local, and who the club wants to stay local. SBW is a good case in point. For mine, he is a Dogs junior as they brought him up through the lower grades to make him the player he is now. They may lose him (I personally think he'll stay, but for the sake of argument) because the cap restricts them in the way they can go about it. He is probably worth about 300 grand, IMO. His manager will push that up as high as he can, because player managers are merkins. So, say a conservative estimate gets his value up to 400 grand. The Dogs now face a choice, him, or one of the other "stars" off contract this season? They can't keep them all, even though from all reports there is a mutual desire for those players to stay. So what can they do? As player values increase, players are being squeezed out of sides by the cap. Adam Dykes is another good case in point. He was always a Shark at heart, and admittedly I'm not sure why he was let go, but his attitude is a good pointer. Say SBW is forced to leave, and goes to, say, Newcastle. He hates it there, longs to play for the Dogs, his club, but can't. And so he starts playing like crap, because the desire isn't there, and winds up becoming a sub rate first grader. Talent wasted. The NRL needs to accept that it isn't a business. I mean, it is in many ways, but players have hearts. They have homes within the game. They aren't all mercenaries after the cash. Nathan Hindmarsh loves the Eels, they are a part of him as much as he is a part of them. Same for Danny Buderus and Newcastle. Same for Simon Woolford, Jason Croker and Canberra.

On the flipside of this, clubs may be so pressed to retain these type of guys that they miss out on stars, or lose some juniors, or players who like the club but could play somewhere else. There needs to be a system in place that rewards local juniors and true clubmen, not a salary cap that basically means they're in a lottery as to whether they stay or go....
 

Grantwhy

Juniors
Messages
1,285
Players worth $1 million Bazal :shock:.

Not even the Broncos/Bulldogs/Panthers/Roosters could afford to pay player/s that much.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
102,647
Grantwhy said:
Players worth $1 million Bazal :shock:.

Not even the Broncos/Bulldogs/Panthers/Roosters could afford to pay player/s that much.

I know, and I reckon that's the problem. I mean, if your team could afford it, would you complain about signing an Orford or Gower or Campbell or N Hindmarsh or a star like that for $1 Million? Players aren't getting what they're worth because of the cap in my opinion. Look at the English premier league. Sure they have far and away a lot more money, but a 300 grand deal like Hindmarsh is supposedly on is one game for a top player.
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,627
Bazal said:
Grantwhy said:
Players worth $1 million Bazal :shock:.

Not even the Broncos/Bulldogs/Panthers/Roosters could afford to pay player/s that much.

I know, and I reckon that's the problem. I mean, if your team could afford it, would you complain about signing an Orford or Gower or Campbell or N Hindmarsh or a star like that for $1 Million? Players aren't getting what they're worth because of the cap in my opinion. Look at the English premier league. Sure they have far and away a lot more money, but a 300 grand deal like Hindmarsh is supposedly on is one game for a top player.

Exactly !! And its the managers who are pocketing all that money when it doesnt happen.


give the players more !! They deserve it !!
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,627
Grantwhy said:
Call me Comrade but I don't like the idea that the Premiership goes to those that that have the deepest pockets and I don't like the idea of a salary cap that is higher than many teams could afford to spend.

I find it a thousand times more offensive that the premiership goes to the club that has the smallest pockets !! That just wrong !!
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
102,647
There needs to be a balance, where the players get what they are worth, the clubs get what they pay for, the managers get less and the premiership is still a fair contest.
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,627
Bazal said:
There needs to be a balance, where the players get what they are worth, the clubs get what they pay for, the managers get less and the premiership is still a fair contest.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

nqboy

First Grade
Messages
8,914
Comrade, I agree there should be discounts for long serving players and juniors but I think it would be difficult to define "junior".

Other than that, the points about the salary caps and what players are paid in the EPL or NFL are irrelevant as those markets generate far more income. You've got to remember we're are recovering from a war and it will take a while. I'd be interested to know if there is a sunset clause on News taking millions out of our game each year.

Other than that, what solutions do you offer for restricting the amount of money that goes to managers or administrators?
 

Striker

Juniors
Messages
124
I agree with ngboy, it would be difficult to define a junior. Maybe a player that was signed at 18 years old or younger and has remained at the club until making the top 25. I know that sounds harsh but the rule would have to be clear and decent other wise everyone could end up being a club junior. That way their wage once reaching the top 25 could only be counted by 50% for the cap.

Once in first grade the discounts will continue for the length of time in the top 25 players , starting at 5 years. I think some one earlier had a really good breakdown. 5 years 20%, 6 - 40%, 7-60%, 8-80%, 9-90%, 10-100%.

In the case of a junior going all that way, they will become a very cheap player for that club as the discount after 5 years of service is added to their 50% discount for being a junior.
 

Misty Bee

First Grade
Messages
7,082
The salary cap creates a level playing field. The problem is how UN level the playing field is under that cap. example - is North Queensland still being propped up by News Ltd (and Brisbane, Melbourne, Canberra et al), while Newcastle, Parra, Souths, etc are self funded?

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the salary cap is if it basically equals what the clubs get from the NRL/News anyway.

Generally, I am anti the cap for the reasons OVP stated in his original thread. Our club would have won more premierships without it - it prevented us from replaceing Price, Cronin, Taylor, Ella, Grothe senior and eventually Sterling and Kenny. That allowed Canbera to develop an era - one which they busted the same cap that we had adhere to before they could suceed.

With News throwing money at certain clubs, the old ways of sucessful clubs breeding sucessful teams is gone. The salary cap allows Souths to compete - the one club that benefits from neither a News Ltd grant or a profitable Leagues club.

Whilst News is propping up half the comp and creating a lopsided playing field, we need the cap. Piss off News, and the salary cap, and the sucessful clubs would rise to the fore again.
 

melon....

Coach
Messages
13,458
slava said:
mate who gives a sh*t.
Ive watch you comment these last few days Saliva, and ignored you for the joke you truely are. But its time for Melon to have his say. Mate, if you dont have anything to say that even remotely doesnt represent dog shit, then please do your self and us a favour and go neck yourself.

Easily the biggest twat on the forums since Oneeye and Johnny Wilkinson. They are dickheads of the highest calibre but you my stupid friend are their King.

Now back to the thread.....

OVP, my last forum 7s article touched on the falicies of the current cap structure. My biggest issue is its an illegal restraint of trade. One moment the NRL is saying it saves clubs from going broke, the next its making the comp even...bullshit on both counts. Unfortunately the NRL is full of unimaginative heads that are too simple to comprehend any decent suggestions to put in place a truely fair system.

When a sponsor is willing to throw a million bucks at a superstar, eg Williams, and the NRL turns around and says "2 players are entitled to such sponsorship upto a maximum of $50K each", then I ask, why doesnt the NRL want to keep this kid in our code? The club wont go broke...as the sponsor is footing the bill. And the player has every right to decide where he wants to play (like we decide where we want to work). The same body that labelled a Player Draft as illegal, is in fact forcing players to go to other teams, and leaving clubs no choice, in fact they are implementing a sublime draft system.

I dont give a stuff about propping up unsuccessful clubs. Some of these disappointments like Wests and Parramatta have huge junior bases...GO AND FIND YOUR STARS. Clubs that spend thousands taking a 16 year old and eventually turning him into a 1st Grader, should not be penalised by the cap. Clubs that are successful and provide representative players should not be penalised by a cap. Why shoudl any club have to include a rep player's rep payments under their cap when that player isnt even representing the club? The current system is fraudulent, flawed and very very illegal.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
I guess you'd be happy with a 6-8 team comp then melon?

We produce our stars, your club comes along waving wads of 50's under their noses.

Just because you line their pockets does not mean they would not have become 1st graders......that just decides where they do it.

Your stinking, "money can buy everything" attitude makes me puke.

1-3

:lol:
 

thickos

First Grade
Messages
7,086
Misty Bee said:
The salary cap creates a level playing field. The problem is how UN level the playing field is under that cap. example - is North Queensland still being propped up by News Ltd (and Brisbane, Melbourne, Canberra et al), while Newcastle, Parra, Souths, etc are self funded?

Totally wrong on Canberra - News left 4 years ago. We're now owned (once again) by the Canberra District Rugby League.
 

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