Pacific Championships 2024

[adamkungl]

I don't think its simplifying anything to say that England have made near-zero, at times negative effort to improve the France situation, regardless of specific numbers. Letting Catalans in was a rare forward thinking move from the RFL and not since repeated, despite its obvious success. There are many in England who would punt them asap. The current trend is to punish them for succeeding, first by paying to enter the Cup and from next year paying for opposition travel arrangements. Twice in the last few years the RFL have chosen to promote stunted village clubs over Toulouse.

If the RFL set a goal of having 40 or even 50 full time French players in their league I have little doubt it could be achieved in 3 years.
I can't find a full list of French players in SL squads, but by my count, 23 Super League rostered players represented France this year without Toulouse being in. With Toulouse that easily gets to 30-35, and more competition for spots, less pressure on Catalans to shoulder the impact alone, and more players open to signing to other clubs. It would make a huge impact. With a stable squad and annual matches (and taken seriously by everyone) the gap could at least shrink to an acceptable level. In the short term we need France able to give England 40-60 good minutes and not get flogged by Pacific nations.

 

[Wb1234]

I don't think its simplifying anything to say that England have made near-zero, at times negative effort to improve the France situation, regardless of specific numbers. Letting Catalans in was a rare forward thinking move from the RFL and not since repeated, despite its obvious success. There are many in England who would punt them asap. The current trend is to punish them for succeeding, first by paying to enter the Cup and from next year paying for opposition travel arrangements. Twice in the last few years the RFL have chosen to promote stunted village clubs over Toulouse.

If the RFL set a goal of having 40 full time French players in their league I have little doubt it could be achieved in 3 years.
I can't find a full list of French players in SL squads, but by my count, 23 Super League rostered players represented France this year without Toulouse being in. With Toulouse that easily gets to 30-35, and more competition for spots, less pressure on Catalans to shoulder the impact alone, and more players open to signing to other clubs. It would make a huge impact. With a stable squad and annual matches (and taken seriously by everyone) the gap could at least shrink to an acceptable level. In the short term we need France able to give England 40-60 good minutes and not get flogged by Pacific nations.

Welcome back

I was a reader for a long time here and remember your posts

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Ok so bring back the 4 Nations in non-world cup years rotating it between NH and SH. Tricky thing is 4 is not enough anymore because you want to allow Samoa and Tonga in, plus you want to encourage the development of PNG, Fiji and bring France into the fold.

So, the IRL, RFL and NRL need to get together and fund a world series that culminates in a world cup final every four years like the RL World Cup used to be.

Every nation plays Four Tests a year meaning we've had a full home and away fixture over a four year period. Then nominate a host that gets to host two semis and a final over two weekends at the end of the cycle.

England
Aus
NZ
Tonga
Samoa
France
PNG
Fiji

Run an emerging nations world cup under this, the winner of which plays a P&R game as a curtain raiser to the World Cup Final to decide who grabs the 8th spot in the World Series for the following four year cycle.

Other than that, just leave it alone because currently we've got consistent matches for most major nations and NH / SH tests happening concurrently which we've never had before which is awesome.

 

[Perth Red]

I don't think its simplifying anything to say that England have made near-zero, at times negative effort to improve the France situation, regardless of specific numbers. Letting Catalans in was a rare forward thinking move from the RFL and not since repeated, despite its obvious success. There are many in England who would punt them asap. The current trend is to punish them for succeeding, first by paying to enter the Cup and from next year paying for opposition travel arrangements. Twice in the last few years the RFL have chosen to promote stunted village clubs over Toulouse.

If the RFL set a goal of having 40 or even 50 full time French players in their league I have little doubt it could be achieved in 3 years.
I can't find a full list of French players in SL squads, but by my count, 23 Super League rostered players represented France this year without Toulouse being in. With Toulouse that easily gets to 30-35, and more competition for spots, less pressure on Catalans to shoulder the impact alone, and more players open to signing to other clubs. It would make a huge impact. With a stable squad and annual matches (and taken seriously by everyone) the gap could at least shrink to an acceptable level. In the short term we need France able to give England 40-60 good minutes and not get flogged by Pacific nations.

If only Toulouse could have put a competitive team out when they had the chance to stay in SL, or improved their business when they had the chance to get in the top 12 gradings. But yeh its all RFL's fault.

 

[isaiah]

Seems easy to predict Aussies and kiwis this weekend

 

[Jim from Oz]

Why Sydney’s first Test sell-out in 30 years ramps up NRL expansion heat

Tonga’s famed “sea of red” is a sight to behold for NRL boss Andrew Abdo as he eyes a changing landscape for international rugby league.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Wb1234]

Samoa v Tonga 3 test series

 

[adamkungl]

If only Toulouse could have put a competitive team out when they had the chance to stay in SL, or improved their business when they had the chance to get in the top 12 gradings. But yeh its all RFL's fault.

You've been angling for NRL expansion for the better part of 2 decades but you don't think expansion or international growth is something the RFL should have valued in their made up criteria for what they want the sport to look like. Fascinating.

 

[Perth Red]

You've been angling for NRL expansion for the better part of 2 decades but you don't think expansion or international growth is something the RFL should have valued in their made up criteria for what they want the sport to look like. Fascinating.

I absolutely do, when they can afford it and it adds value to SL. But the fact is Toulouse have had two direct opportunities to be in SL and failed to take either. That isnt RFL's fault, thats the clubs fault. Easier to blame RFL though I suppose.

 

[Wb1234]

I absolutely do, when they can afford it and it adds value to SL. But the fact is Toulouse have had two direct opportunities to be in SL and failed to take either. That isnt RFL's fault, thats the clubs fault. Easier to blame RFL though I suppose.

Bet you Toulose didn’t get the full point for geography either lmao

 

[Perth Red]

Bet you Toulose didn’t get the full point for geography either lmao

Id take that bet but I know you'd welch on it like last time.

 

[Wb1234]

Id take that bet but I know you'd welch on it like last time.

So whats the answer then

Did toulose get a full point for being in a massive city

Or was it like London where they picked a couple of suburbs near their home ground

 

[Perth Red]

So whats the answer then

Did toulose get a full point for being in a massive city

Or was it like London where they picked a couple of suburbs near their home ground

google is your friend. But yes you are wrong as usual, the pop of Toulouse council region is 509k so they would have got full score. All clubs are based on their council population, including London.

 

[Wb1234]

google is your friend. But yes you are wrong as usual, the pop of Toulouse council region is 509k so they would have got full score. All clubs are based on their council population, including London.

You said London didn’t get the population of London

 

[Perth Red]

You said London didn’t get the population of London

there isnt a council that covers all of london metropolitan! they were assessed same as every club, on the local council population lol

 

[Last Week]

Ok so bring back the 4 Nations in non-world cup years rotating it between NH and SH. Tricky thing is 4 is not enough anymore because you want to allow Samoa and Tonga in, plus you want to encourage the development of PNG, Fiji and bring France into the fold.

Problem as I see it is that if there were a competition in the northern hemisphere including teams like Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and PNG, it would require being able to sell games between the above and others like France and Wales, and I'm just not sure if it's possible outside of a world cup.

It's why I'm not adverse to tours and local tournaments (such as a Pacific Championship).
There's a balance of including the England, France, etc etc to improve the quality of their football, but it needs to be profitable.

 

[adamkungl]

Problem as I see it is that if there were a competition in the northern hemisphere including teams like Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and PNG, it would require being able to sell games between the above and others like France and Wales, and I'm just not sure if it's possible outside of a world cup.

It's why I'm not adverse to tours and local tournaments (such as a Pacific Championship).
There's a balance of including the England, France, etc etc to improve the quality of their football, but it needs to be profitable.

The bigger downside I think is if you have all the top teams playing each other every year, you are devaluing the world cup. A 6 Nations with all the top teams is just a world cup minus the shit teams.

Other international sports either run exclusively tours and friendlies between world cups (Cricket) or tournaments split along hemisphere or continental lines (Soccer, Union).

So I think the idea of a Pacific/SH and northern/Atlantic comps played annually makes sense. The problem is England being far ahead of the rest of Europe/NH makes it less viable.

I also think there should be a review of how the 'tier 2' associations align with Pacific and Europe. Currently MEA is aligned with Europe, which makes sense from a geography and timezone perspective but Lebanon and South Africa are more likely to play in Australia. Other sports have Lebanon in Asia which would put them under Asia-Pacific and could have them in the Pacific Cup. North America is aligned with Europe and South America with Pacific, which doesn't entirely make sense as the Americas Cup is played with teams from both north and south.

I'd like to see a long term plan where the best Americas and Africa/MEA/Asian nations can advance to the Bowl/B tournaments in Europe or Pacific, and we basically have 2 pyramids split along some line. But there are a bunch of different considerations (timezone, travel routes and costs, talent level, diaspora/heritage players) which often conflict with each other to make it less straightforward.

 

[adamkungl]

My preference is to maintain and expand the current format, with no one out touring England and the top teams appearing every edition. But it seems like the current strategy will persist until at least 2030 where 1 Pacific team goes to England each year. So in that case I would have the tournament played annually with (examples as per mooted 2027 plans):
England series - 1 Pacific team (NZ).
Cup - Top 4 teams (Aus, Samoa, Tonga, PNG).
Bowl - remaining 1-2 pacific teams (Fiji, Cook Islands)+ Lebanon. + future expansion to include best Americas team.
Promotion playoff remains between Cup and Bowl.

Also I said this yesterday but I could come round to an alternative format which is 6 Nations with 4 games and final.
2027 Pools
A - Australia, PNG, Fiji
B - Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands.
Play once each within pool plus one crossover game.
Crossover games are A1 v B1, A2 v B2, A3 v B3. It's important we still get the top 2 teams playing each other for interest and money.
Pool winners play a final.

But this introduces a fairness problem where the loser of A1vB1 is disadvantaged - even if they sweep their pool, they could still miss the final if B2 wins their crossover. So maybe crossover games are worth less on the ladder than pool games?
A straight 6N we have neither the calendar time, nor the financial incentive to play a tournament where more than half of Australia's games are likely write offs.
Which is why I prefer to stick with 4 Nations format! Simple, competitive, viable, no gimmicks.

 

[RedVee]

Also I said this yesterday but I could come round to an alternative format which is 6 Nations with 4 games and final.
2027 Pools
A - Australia, PNG, Fiji
B - Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands.
Play once each within pool plus one crossover game.
Crossover games are A1 v B1, A2 v B2, A3 v B3. It's important we still get the top 2 teams playing each other for interest and money.
Pool winners play a final.

But this introduces a fairness problem where the loser of A1vB1 is disadvantaged - even if they sweep their pool, they could still miss the final if B2 wins their crossover. So maybe crossover games are worth less on the ladder than pool games?
A straight 6N we have neither the calendar time, nor the financial incentive to play a tournament where more than half of Australia's games are likely write offs.
Which is why I prefer to stick with 4 Nations format! Simple, competitive, viable, no gimmicks.

No NZ?

 

[Wb1234]

With seven potential southern hemisphere teams it always leaves one who can tour England

England just have to find a way to sell tests against Fiji cooks and png as well as Samoa Tonga nz and Australia

And the format should be extended to allow for all teams to play each other twice (like the old tri nations)