Pacific Cup 2024

[Blair]

I'm glad we use the word 'culture' or 'heritage' instead of 'race' when we talk about players choosing who to play for.

I remember my Maori teacher at Monrad Intermediate in PN being so proud of the NZ Maoris (the vernacular of the time) tour of Wales in 1982. He also looked his class squarely in the eye and added 'but I'm not comfortable with a race-based rugby side'.

It was quite raw back then, only a year after the Springbok Tour of course.

I also remember my old man going off during the international against Wales (which the 'Maoris' lost 25-18), 'wouldn't the All Blacks bowl these Welsh bastards!'

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

TBH, I don't think that Haas has the same mana (not sure of the Samoan equivalent word) amongst the NZ Samoans as what RTS has - he would be a bigger influence. And most of the Oz Samoans already play for Samoa anyway.

Actually yea fair point, RTS has massive standing doesn’t he. I think Gardiner said Roger was the catalyst for Nanai switching too.

 

[blue bags]

1000% they are having their cake and eating to

Play Origin to get the cash
Play for Samoa/ Tonga for the heritage/culture

Its double dipping to the fullest.
Make them tier 1 status and stop this rort otherwise let Kiwis play Origin then

Brad Thorne. Quadruple double double UPS

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Are there actually that many genuine should have played for NZ in this series players who played for Tonga? I don't think there is. There's Taumalolo, we all know why that Judas left, AFB is basically an Aussie-Tongan, Tui probably wouldn't have got a start with us anyway even with all our other 6's out, Havilli is the same, most of the others are Aussie, moved to Aussie young and eligible for Origin, and then Elesi Katoa is actually Tonga Tongan.

Probably not right at the moment, no. There are several NZ born guys who moved to Australia before age 10, where I couldn't really criticise them too much if they had chosen Australia over NZ (S Katoa, I Katoa, Kaufusi, Paseka). Lolohea and Havili are Kiwis (and literally ex-Kiwis) but they would've been no more than a sideways move from the makeshifts halves and hookers we already had. Australia may have stronger claims over the current Tongan squad than NZ does.

What concerns me is more the overall long term effect if all (or a vast majority of) Tonga and Samoa eligible players commit to Tonga and Samoa. Yes, I know we can cobble together essentially a Maori side with the occasional Pakeha and the odd Aussie-raised bloke who isn't in the Origin frame, like Crossland. Nevertheless, such a side is unlikely to be representative of the game in NZ - and I definitely have a bit of an Auckland bias on this because if you remove Samoa and Tonga eligible Aucklanders, you are left with almost no-one. Club footy in Auckland might as well be a feeder comp for Samoa and Tonga - how is that fair, and frankly, at what point does local footy become almost pointless and self-defeating for NZRL?

As a Kiwi I just think it's a rort that we as a rugby league playing nation can't select our own players, because they choose to play for countries who for all intents and purposes don't, and can't realistically be expected to, produce any players. I mean, it's not just that they "can't produce players" in the sense of players not developing their game in Tonga or Samoa, it's that they "can't produce players" in the sense of blokes who maybe just lived there a bit. And people will say "those countries do so much for the game" when they essentially do nothing. It's Bizarro World.

Anyway, I haven't got any solutions to propose for any of this, it just vexes me.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Kiwi v PNG relegation/promotion game is after what would be considered the final Aussie vs Tonga?
Weird.

 

[JJ]

Probably not right at the moment, no. There are several NZ born guys who moved to Australia before age 10, where I couldn't really criticise them too much if they had chosen Australia over NZ (S Katoa, I Katoa, Kaufusi, Paseka). Lolohea and Havili are Kiwis (and literally ex-Kiwis) but they would've been no more than a sideways move from the makeshifts halves and hookers we already had. Australia may have stronger claims over the current Tongan squad than NZ does.

What concerns me is more the overall long term effect if all (or a vast majority of) Tonga and Samoa eligible players commit to Tonga and Samoa. Yes, I know we can cobble together essentially a Maori side with the occasional Pakeha and the odd Aussie-raised bloke who isn't in the Origin frame, like Crossland. Nevertheless, such a side is unlikely to be representative of the game in NZ - and I definitely have a bit of an Auckland bias on this because if you remove Samoa and Tonga eligible Aucklanders, you are left with almost no-one. Club footy in Auckland might as well be a feeder comp for Samoa and Tonga - how is that fair, and frankly, at what point does local footy become almost pointless and self-defeating for NZRL?

As a Kiwi I just think it's a rort that we as a rugby league playing nation can't select our own players, because they choose to play for countries who for all intents and purposes don't, and can't realistically be expected to, produce any players. I mean, it's not just that they "can't produce players" in the sense of players not developing their game in Tonga or Samoa, it's that they "can't produce players" in the sense of blokes who maybe just lived there a bit. And people will say "those countries do so much for the game" when they essentially do nothing. It's Bizarro World.

Anyway, I haven't got any solutions to propose for any of this, it just vexes me.

The bold part is 100% correct in so many contexts... and yeah, really good points more generally imo