Para linked to hillsong?

[Hollywood Jesus]

So HJ, what capacity do you think they are in the club?

Has the club usually had a chaplin/pastor for counselling etc if a player needed it? If the answer to that is yes, and that is the role of what hillsong are now having, then as long as players have a choice, it doesnt bother me. I can never, ever remember reading that someone was concerned that the club had an anglican or catholic pastor, so a pentecostal pastor should be treated the same way. Given the number of our players known to go to hillsong, I could see the rational by having a hillsong chaplin......

I just remember reading an article that pretty much said as soon as Osbourne came in, he immediately started bringing Hillsongers in to the Club. I seem to remember it being stated that it was a deliberate and conscious move to bring Hillsong (specifically) into the Club and that it was pretty much the first thing that he did.

Now I could absolutely be wrong but it just appears as though he is seeking to stack the deck with his particular religious affiliation.

One position (if I remember correctly) was welfare officer. Now, a welfare officer in no way needs to be religiously affiliated and so filling that position with someone from your affiliation can possibly be stacking the deck.

It was not a chaplain that we're talking about here. That would, obviously, be a different situation. However, I'm pretty sure we'd have a long standing relationship with a chaplain and this should have been continued and not changed to suit the CEO's personal taste. This is most especially true considering our Club (as others would) has members who are affiliated with many different Christian facets.

It's simple - religion is in no way related to the role of CEO. As such, in no way should the CEO be making hiring judgements based on religion, particularly when they are being deliberately filled by people of his own personal religious affiliation and from his own church.

Don't just automatically jump to the defense because it's Osbourne or whatever (if that is what you're doing). I'll see if I can find that article later on, but it makes it pretty clear that Osbourne is seeking to bring Hillsong into the Club. It's not making sure that the Club has the necessary religious aspects to deal with the faith of any players or staff but instead to specifically target Hillsong for a special relationship with the Club.

Now, fish, I don't know of your past relationship with or understanding of Christianity in general, the Pentacostal faith in particular or Hillsong specifically. Let me tell you, however, that this is no way a good thing but it is exactly the type of thing that Hillsong would be rubbing their hands together over.

 

[KaboobieGarfunkelShazam]

So HJ, what capacity do you think they are in the club?

Has the club usually had a chaplin/pastor for counselling etc if a player needed it? If the answer to that is yes, and that is the role of what hillsong are now having, then as long as players have a choice, it doesnt bother me. I can never, ever remember reading that someone was concerned that the club had an anglican or catholic pastor, so a pentecostal pastor should be treated the same way. Given the number of our players known to go to hillsong, I could see the rational by having a hillsong chaplin......

Representation in this capacity wouldn't bother me.

I would however, not like to see the club inextricably linked to the point where they form a majority of the organisational structure.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

Didn't attribute it to yourself, however, it is one widely-held opinion in society (amongst many others both for and against its organisational merits)

Yep, I understood that.

Was just making my position clear that I was not one of those particular people who hold that view.

 

[fish eel]

I just remember reading an article that pretty much said as soon as Osbourne came in, he immediately started bringing Hillsongers in to the Club. I seem to remember it being stated that it was a deliberate and conscious move to bring Hillsong (specifically) into the Club and that it was pretty much the first thing that he did.

Now I could absolutely be wrong but it just appears as though he is seeking to stack the deck with his particular religious affiliation.

One position (if I remember correctly) was welfare officer. Now, a welfare officer in no way needs to be religiously affiliated and so filling that position with someone from your affiliation can possibly be stacking the deck.

It was not a chaplain that we're talking about here. That would, obviously, be a different situation. However, I'm pretty sure we'd have a long standing relationship with a chaplain and this should have been continued and not changed to suit the CEO's personal taste. This is most especially true considering our Club (as others would) has members who are affiliated with many different Christian facets.

It's simple - religion is in no way related to the role of CEO. As such, in no way should the CEO be making hiring judgements based on religion, particularly when they are being deliberately filled by people of his own personal religious affiliation and from his own church.

Don't just automatically jump to the defense because it's Osbourne or whatever (if that is what you're doing). I'll see if I can find that article later on, but it makes it pretty clear that Osbourne is seeking to bring Hillsong into the Club. It's not making sure that the Club has the necessary religious aspects to deal with the faith of any players or staff but instead to specifically target Hillsong for a special relationship with the Club.

Now, fish, I don't know of your past relationship with or understanding of Christianity in general, the Pentacostal faith in particular or Hillsong specifically. Let me tell you, however, that this is no way a good thing but it is exactly the type of thing that Hillsong would be rubbing their hands together over.

I know enough about Hillsong and pentecostal churches to be very wary. ;-)

I was just really posing a scenario, and asking whether you knew what capacity Hill$ong are supposed to be having with our club.

I agree that no CEO should hire based on religion, if that was the case, it would be clearly discrimination and not on.

But if, f it is in a chaplin role, and given the large number of players we have who we know to have been involved in pentecostal religions, I see no issue as long as no player is forced/coerced into anything. Not sure if it makes sense to have say, a catholic chaplin if we have no players that way inclined.

 

[Fui!!!]

If it wins us a ppremiership, the club can be owned by those scientology whack jobs for all care.

 

[fish eel]

I'm also not sure we should be jumping at shadows and accusing Ossie of "making hiring judgements based on religion, particularly when they are being deliberately filled by people of his own personal religious affiliation and from his own church" if you're not entierly sure yourself whats happening or what this Hill$ong role is.

 

[btaag]

I'm also not sure we should be jumping at shadows and accusing Ossie of "making hiring judgements based on religion, particularly when they are being deliberately filled by people of his own personal religious affiliation and from his own church" if you're not entierly sure yourself whats happening or what this Hill$ong role is.

I agree - play the selection choices not the man. I am not religious, but if we are winning football game and are not breaking the law, I couldnt care less what the religious affiliations are of the side - so long as they are successful.

 

[Parra09]

There will be a number of people lose their jobs this week and next... lets see where their replacements come from.....

 

[The Rev]

I just remember reading an article that pretty much said as soon as Osbourne came in, he immediately started bringing Hillsongers in to the Club. I seem to remember it being stated that it was a deliberate and conscious move to bring Hillsong (specifically) into the Club and that it was pretty much the first thing that he did.

Now I could absolutely be wrong but it just appears as though he is seeking to stack the deck with his particular religious affiliation.

One position (if I remember correctly) was welfare officer. Now, a welfare officer in no way needs to be religiously affiliated and so filling that position with someone from your affiliation can possibly be stacking the deck.

It was not a chaplain that we're talking about here. That would, obviously, be a different situation. However, I'm pretty sure we'd have a long standing relationship with a chaplain and this should have been continued and not changed to suit the CEO's personal taste. This is most especially true considering our Club (as others would) has members who are affiliated with many different Christian facets.

It's simple - religion is in no way related to the role of CEO. As such, in no way should the CEO be making hiring judgements based on religion, particularly when they are being deliberately filled by people of his own personal religious affiliation and from his own church.

Don't just automatically jump to the defense because it's Osbourne or whatever (if that is what you're doing). I'll see if I can find that article later on, but it makes it pretty clear that Osbourne is seeking to bring Hillsong into the Club. It's not making sure that the Club has the necessary religious aspects to deal with the faith of any players or staff but instead to specifically target Hillsong for a special relationship with the Club.

Now, fish, I don't know of your past relationship with or understanding of Christianity in general, the Pentacostal faith in particular or Hillsong specifically. Let me tell you, however, that this is no way a good thing but it is exactly the type of thing that Hillsong would be rubbing their hands together over.

HJ,

I am a minister by profession so you may choose to take my words with a grain of salt, but I thought I should declare that up front to avoid ambiguity...

I have no affiliation with Hillsong, nor have ever had any affiliation with Hillsong... I am however, a friend and colleague of the Eels chaplain who has held the role for, I believe, close to ten years... If that is not correct, it is certainly a significant period of time... He is also not affiliated with Hillsong... As far as I am aware, he is continuing in this capacity next season... (I have told him previously, that if for any reason, he can't do it, to give me a call, it would be a dream of a lifetime for me)...

I read the article you refer to... Paul Osborne was quoted as saying that he invited one of the young pastors (Brian Houston's son) from Hillsong to be part of the Welfare team of the club... Apparently, the Houston family are long-standing supporters of the Eels... I'm not sure of the particular role description involved as it was not mentioned... And I also believe the role is voluntary, as is the Chaplaincy role... A second version of the article appeared later, which mentioned the chaplain and his 'great work over a number of years'... I remember noting this as unusual...

I am also of the understanding that Paul Osborne is Roman Catholic in his faith... (He does have a tribe of children after all) In the Buzzwords blog a couple of weeks ago, he denied being a 'regular' member of Hillsong when questioned about it...

I believe that a happy footballer off the field, will play better on it... While that may mean a faith for some, it certainly will not for all... Just as certain training methods will prove helpful for a certain player, the same methods may be counter-productive in others (eg. Tahu's hamstrings and the Wallabies training)... If the Parramatta club wish to provide an avenue for players to explore the 'spiritual' or 'Christian' side of life outside football, I am all for that, however, I do see a danger to becoming the 'Hillsong' club... Maybe I am out of line in saying this, but it does sound a little bit unusual to me... I am in no way casting aspersions over any person involved, or suggesting anything untoward by Hillsong, but I guess as in everything to do with sport, Parramatta and Paul Osborne will be judged by the results of their decisions...

I am pleased with the positive influence I have seen from Daniel Anderson and Paul Osborne already, and look forward to that positive influence continuing on and off the field... Again, only time will tell...

I have possibly posed more questions than I have answered, but wanted to clarify some thoughts while putting my two cents worth in...

Thanks...

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

I was just really posing a scenario, and asking whether you knew what capacity Hill$ong are supposed to be having with our club.

From the article it seems at least welfare officer (which is not a religious office but nice to know Ossie wants a religious person in there to provide "welfare". Brainwashing anyone?)

Also from the article, it was close to if not his first move once in the role.

Not good moves imo.

I agree that no CEO should hire based on religion, if that was the case, it would be clearly discrimination and not on.

Hmmm, I don't think I said the CEO was hired for those reasons. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Was talking about the hiring done by the CEO once he was in the job. We hire a CEO for non-religious reasons but then all of a sudden his hiring is done with religion in mind.

But if, f it is in a chaplin role, and given the large number of players we have who we know to have been involved in pentecostal religions, I see no issue as long as no player is forced/coerced into anything. Not sure if it makes sense to have say, a catholic chaplin if we have no players that way inclined.

I don't think our players are all Pentacostal. Mormons aren't Pentacostal, for example.

I'm also not sure we should be jumping at shadows and accusing Ossie of "making hiring judgements based on religion, particularly when they are being deliberately filled by people of his own personal religious affiliation and from his own church" if you're not entierly sure yourself whats happening or what this Hill$ong role is.

Absolutely.

As I've already stated, my theorising is based purely on the article that stated Osbourne was hiring Hillsongers as his first actions and that a welfare officer (which I have already said is a non-religious role) was deliberately filled with a Hillsonger and there is a deliberate movement to either bring Hillsongers into the Club or "give them access" so to speak.

Once again, all coming from that article.

I agree - play the selection choices not the man. I am not religious, but if we are winning football game and are not breaking the law, I couldnt care less what the religious affiliations are of the side - so long as they are successful.

I'd rather run last and not win a single game.

There will be a number of people lose their jobs this week and next... lets see where their replacements come from.....

True enough.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

I have possibly posed more questions than I have answered, but wanted to clarify some thoughts while putting my two cents worth in...

Thanks...

No worries, mate, and thanks for doing so.

As I've already said (such as in the post above) this was coming from the article. I knew of no secondary clarification and nothing of the Buzzwords column.

I have already said that if I am incorrect I will be more than happy to apologise. I was merely ruminating based on the information I had received, the fact that the thread had already been started and my wariness relating to Pentacostalism (and especially Hillsong) which derives purely from personal experience.

In no way do I mean to offend anyone nor cast aspersions. I hope that I have been clear in stating several times that I am working from a printed article and that I am willing to apologise if my ruminations have been incorrect.

 

[lil_eel]

I just remember reading an article that pretty much said as soon as Osbourne came in, he immediately started bringing Hillsongers in to the Club. I seem to remember it being stated that it was a deliberate and conscious move to bring Hillsong (specifically) into the Club and that it was pretty much the first thing that he did.

Now I could absolutely be wrong but it just appears as though he is seeking to stack the deck with his particular religious affiliation.

One position (if I remember correctly) was welfare officer. Now, a welfare officer in no way needs to be religiously affiliated and so filling that position with someone from your affiliation can possibly be stacking the deck.

It was not a chaplain that we're talking about here. That would, obviously, be a different situation. However, I'm pretty sure we'd have a long standing relationship with a chaplain and this should have been continued and not changed to suit the CEO's personal taste. This is most especially true considering our Club (as others would) has members who are affiliated with many different Christian facets.

It's simple - religion is in no way related to the role of CEO. As such, in no way should the CEO be making hiring judgements based on religion, particularly when they are being deliberately filled by people of his own personal religious affiliation and from his own church.

Don't just automatically jump to the defense because it's Osbourne or whatever (if that is what you're doing). I'll see if I can find that article later on, but it makes it pretty clear that Osbourne is seeking to bring Hillsong into the Club. It's not making sure that the Club has the necessary religious aspects to deal with the faith of any players or staff but instead to specifically target Hillsong for a special relationship with the Club.

Now, fish, I don't know of your past relationship with or understanding of Christianity in general, the Pentacostal faith in particular or Hillsong specifically. Let me tell you, however, that this is no way a good thing but it is exactly the type of thing that Hillsong would be rubbing their hands together over.

Fact - Paul Osbourne does go to Hillsong. My mate said he seen him there, and that he introduced some footy players into hillsong to talk about something. (i think it was motivational speech).

 

[whall15]

That prosperity theology certainly works out well doesn't it?

Look at the date, a few days after the Grand Final.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I have already said that if I am incorrect I will be more than happy to apologise. I was merely ruminating based on the information I had received, the fact that the thread had already been started and my wariness relating to Pentacostalism (and especially Hillsong) which derives purely from personal experience.

Have you ever had any bad experiences with people of different ethnic groups? If so do you hate those merkins too?

 

[The EELiminator]

talk about a blast from the past i hope you didnt inhale while you were blowing the dust off this thread

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Have you ever had any bad experiences with people of different ethnic groups? If so do you hate those merkins too?

Yes and yes.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Yes and yes.

I thought you didn't hate Parramatta supporters from Perth?

Or is that not an ethnic group?

 

[Maroubra Eel]

I thought you didn't hate Parramatta supporters from Perth?

Or is that not an ethnic group?

I hate the west, and you don't get much wester than f**king Perth.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

From my house I can see Somalian pirates.

Don't ever forget to report the target area clear.

 

[Dazzat]

I've read through these posts and have a couple of points to make. To be up front, I am not, or never have been affiliated with Hillsong, never attended. However, I am a Christian.

Firstly, the concern about Paul Osborne appointing someone from Hillsong as a "welfare officer". It is my understanding that Hillsong Church is the biggest non-government provider of financial case management services to unemployed people in NSW.

So, I would expect that, being the biggest provider in NSW, that they know a thing or two about welfare. There seems to be a lot of press about Hillsong Emerge 'misusing' government funds. As someone who has worked in government-funded employment and welfare agencies, I can assure you they are NOT alone. It is endemic throughout the system, but as always, the press just loves to slam Christians.

Secondly, I am aware that Israel Folou was, at one stage, considering a move to Parramatta, and I believe that would have been forthcoming due to his relationship with Tim Mannah and Jarryd Hayne (who I believe both attend Hillsong).

If Folou had joined Parramatta, would everyone so critical about the welfare officer joining the club have been equally as scathing against Folau joining? I imagine not.

Thirdly, as a long-time fan of rugby league, I believe the greatest patch of player form I have ever witnessed as Jarryd Hayne's amazing efforts in 2009. I have never watched a player so dominate in all my times of watching league - even better than Wally Lewis IMO.

The fact that this amazing patch of form followed directly after Jarryd Hayne giving his live to Christ escapes most people. But, looking back now it all makes perfect sense. Jesus said he came to give us life and life more abundant, and to set us free from our sins. It's like being released from a life time of bondage - and Jarryd Hayne's form in 2009 was that of a man living like the gate was left open.