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Parra and Brian Smith - chokers?

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
Ron Jeremy said:
Johns was the better player no doubt, beut before he retired and even last year he was hardly in career best form, he even said it!

Well your super coach isn't doing much better without Johns, 70 point floggings, losses to the Roosters at home etc did it occur that perhaps finding a replacement for Johns when injured was harder then you thin? and that the juniors coming through just weren't up it? thank Hagan you have Mullen & Walsh, and also thank him for wining a premiership.
You love a good balanced debate don't you. Try calculating the full amount of player salary we had on the sidelines on Saturday night. A little more than just "finding a replacement for Johns...".
 

KniGhTs BaTTLeR

Juniors
Messages
1,699
Smith isn't a choker. Choking is missing a putt from 4ft to win a major championship. Choking is missing a conversion from right infront to win the game.

But Smith did stuff up in 2001. In the lead up tp the GF he took Parra away for a week and relaxed them while Newie was behind closed doors training their asses off. His preparation for big games isnt that smart.
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
Make that 2 foot, even the pros miss the odd 4 foot put occasionally :p

I thought I heard somewhere else (maybe at the start of this thread) that Parra went nuts on the intensity physically and mentally in the leadup to the GF and we were a bit more laidback?
 

Burwood

Bench
Messages
4,977
Serc said:
I thought I heard somewhere else (maybe at the start of this thread) that Parra went nuts on the intensity physically and mentally in the leadup to the GF and we were a bit more laidback?
I made reference to it earlier:)

Here is the recent article that I got the gist of the story from:

Smith wrong fit for Knights


June 04, 2007 12:00am

A NEVER-told-before story that reveals why the Newcastle Knights will never again be the same club under Brian Smith:
It was a few years back, during a casual conversation with a Knights player, and he was talking about the lead-up to the 2001 grand final.
The Knights were up against it that year, playing a Parramatta side that had just come off a record season, scoring more points than any team before it.
The Eels needed only to top it off with a grand final victory to cap one of the great seasons.
Halfway through the week, Smith took his Parramatta players into camp near Wollongong in an attempt to get them away from the grand final circus in Sydney and help them to relax.
The players threw frisbees on the beach. There are photographs of it.
The Eels returned for the grand final breakfast that Thursday and as the two teams waited outside the ballroom to be introduced, the players nodded to each other and struck up a general, but cautious, conversation.
"How's the week been for you?", one of the Knights players asked.
The Parramatta player's response surprised the Newcastle players. He spoke of nerves and how intense the week was.
And then he said how, in a way, he would be glad when the week was over.
When the Newcastle players were alone, they said, "What about that?"
They left breakfast that morning convinced they were going to win.
Besides their own confidence, the Knights were convinced Parramatta was struggling with the pressure.
And for their own part they were having the time of their lives. More than one has said that grand final week – and the entire week, not just playing the grand final – was the best week of their lives. Seeing Parramatta walk around as tight as a drum emboldened them.
As Smith knows, players read a coach's attitude and soon reflect it. St George Illawarra coach Nathan Brown confirmed as much last year while speaking about his own failure from the season before.
If the coach is relaxed, the players pick up on it and stay relaxed themselves.
Smith – who admits privately that he can get too intense – had tried to protect his players by putting them in a relaxing environment but, as he found out, he couldn't remove the Eels from himself.

The sidenote, as Newcastle fans will fondly recall, is that Parramatta played exactly as the Knights expected, tense and tight, and trailed 24-0 at halftime. With nothing left to lose when they resumed, they just went out and played and, with this attitude, went down 30-24.
It was a performance that spoke of what might have been.
Like it or lump it, what Newcastle fans will have to accept from now on is that the Knights won't be the same.
That grand final showed how wrong the fit is.
True, they will more than likely still be successful under Smith. They could even win a premiership – but it will never be the same team that they fell in love with.
The pity about it is that throughout its history the team has always reflected its city.
Honest and straightforward.
Smith is a very good coach.
He took Parramatta from a rabble and made them successful, if not winners.
But he can do it only his way. He has a style he coaches to and his players have to fit that style.
They are not always happy with it.
Smith's newspaper column describing Jarrod Mullen as not even the best halfback at the Knights, at the time of Mullen's State of Origin call-up, is not even half of the mind games being employed at Newcastle.
Before Andrew Johns retired, Smith told him that Mullen was a better passer.
He told Danny Buderus he was not the best hooker at the club.
This is designed to sting their pride and spur them to even greater heights – "I'll show you" – but they are also the same kind of tricks that wore down many Parramatta players, though not all, before Smith was eventually released.
It fits Newcastle's culture about as well as a fat kid's school shirt.
Already in the wake of the past week's bloodletting, with the promise of more to come, some sponsors are asking each other whether this guy is the right fit for their club.
The answer is he is not.
Not as the club is now.
Knights fans need to know Smith will change them – he is already doing so – and he may even make them more successful.
Understand that.
But the club will no longer have the same sense of spirit.
Newcastle was the last of the old footy clubs.
They have used this old-fashioned sense of self to win premierships against better teams and bigger clubs.
They used it to take on these slick new "franchises" with their media-managed images and homogenous players who slotted in and out of the club's roster with seemingly little disruption.
They were underdogs, and their city loved them for it.
Not for much longer.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21841726-5006066,00.html
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,629
Serc said:
Ah there we go - well spotted and interesting article that!
i reckon that article is a crock of sh*t, more news limited propaganda against brian smith, seriously, as if smith would tell bedsy that he's not the best hooker at the club. How dumb does he think bedsy is? Surely he wouldn't think bedsy would take him seriously if he implied that luke quigley or riley brown were better prospects
 

CJKnight

Juniors
Messages
1,339
aqua_duck said:
i reckon that article is a crock of sh*t, more news limited propaganda against brian smith, seriously, as if smith would tell bedsy that he's not the best hooker at the club. How dumb does he think bedsy is? Surely he wouldn't think bedsy would take him seriously if he implied that luke quigley or riley brown were better prospects

LOL... well said
 

Nuffy

Bench
Messages
4,075
That article was written by Paul Kent whos actually working in London I believe and therefore has little concept of whats going on.

You will notice that Paul Kent spends most of his time writing articles about everything BUT football so I wouldn't suggest that this is something that an insider has written, rather a man with a agenda to advance.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
90,937
Poupou Escobar said:
We've all seen the kinds of clashes Brian Smith has had in the past with forceful personalities - Gorden Tallis, Noel Cleal and Jamie Lyon in particular. It could be that Brian Smith is unable to share control of his club with anyone, and so he misses out on the on-field generals a coach needs to win the big games.

Not to denigrate Nathan Cayless, a loyal clubman, outstanding front-rower, and a captain who obviously leads by example, but he's not a big-match "go-to" man in the mould of Buderus, Johns, Gower or Lockyer.

It is my belief that none of those players would have thrived under Brian Smith, and I'll be interested to see how his relationship with Danny Buderus develops over the next couple of years.

Wow.

It only took months to alienate your stars.

That said, the club will be stronger this time next year. Smith will make it a professional outfit with plenty of depth and very few egos.

But you need egos to win the big games and Brian Smith just won't put up with them at his club.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,683
Poupou Escobar said:
Wow.

It only took months to alienate your stars.

That said, the club will be stronger this time next year. Smith will make it a professional outfit with plenty of depth and very few egos.

But you need egos to win the big games and Brian Smith just won't put up with them at his club.
you'd do well to go and have a listen to the latest smith press conference on the knights website.

Brian Smith - "the boys that we have in this club have.. by and large.. if anything they border on being over confident.. ya know they're very cocky and very confident about their ability and that's what i would call a typical newcastle player to be honest - i like it".
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
90,937
perverse said:
you'd do well to go and have a listen to the latest smith press conference on the knights website.

Brian Smith - "the boys that we have in this club have.. by and large.. if anything they border on being over confident.. ya know they're very cocky and very confident about their ability and that's what i would call a typical newcastle player to be honest - i like it".

Well he's obviously noticed how confident they are, and I'm sure they are - country footy players are tops. You only have to look at how many rep players come out of Newcastle.

But while Smith says he likes confident players (and what coach wouldn't?) he clearly doesn't like the attitude that most confident players have, or he wouldn't be cutting established players and pissing the rest off.
 

cram

Bench
Messages
3,396
The players he is cutting are blokes who I would suggest may be confident but don't produce that on the field. Wooly is an honest toiler but no superstar, Perry has the makings of a superstar but has not reached that potential in Newcastle and really should be by now. Newton is seemingly an arrogant bastard who believed in his own ability however, did not like it when things did not go his own way.

There are other players of course who fit a similar mould.

Secondly, Smith started this year minus his top player after several minutes in the first game of the comp all of a sudden the yearly plan, and probably the softly, softly approach went out the window.

Johns has made a hell of alot of ordinary players look pretty good over the years, at the moment I will trust Smith on his recruitment and retention policy.

History will judge his time at the Knights, he knows that. He knows that we are unforgiving and we don't have a Dennis Fitzgerald who will provide him a ten year stint at this club without producing the goods.
 

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