Parramatta Eels Juniors

[Poupou Escobar]

This is also what the Roosters have been doing since Smith and O’Sullivan get together.

It’s worked a treat for them.

The Chooks always have a strong SG Ball squad, but they don't give a f**k about Harold Matts. They have never won Harold Matts but have won three of the past ten SG Ball competitions.

By comparison, we have just won our first SG Ball title in ten years, while winning four Harold Matthews titles in that time.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Na you're just trying to badmouth the club like you usually do. Not really decent conversation.
But just for conversation's sake, here's a list of players currently at other clubs (per NRL site) that were out juniors (to the best of my knowledge)
Broncos - Dargan - he'd have probably been behind Smith, Taka & KE for half injury replacements, let alone the more established halves
Dogs - Klemmer - ok he's a bad loss, but he also left at a very young age (I think)

There's plenty more than that but I couldn't be arsed finding them. There are a few at the Tigers.

 

[84 Baby]

There's plenty more than that but I couldn't be arsed finding them. There are a few at the Tigers.

Yeah somehow I posted mid typing, updated now

 

[hindy111]

Maloney made his first grade debut for the storm. He only played 9 games for them before moving to the warriors.

So the best coach in the game also passed on him. Does this make the Warriors the smartest of the 3? It just shows every club gets lucky and unlucky at times.

 

[hindy111]

Misunderstood your post. Thought you were saying we stole them from their clubs.

Stone is about the same size as Nathan Brown.

Big enough. Ive seen him play. He reminds me of Josh Jackson.
Know one is stealing anyone really. Just clubs trying to be sucessfull and playing by the rules.

 

[hindy111]

I don’t believe most of these narratives. I’m sure junior players are given professional assessments by development staff, with their strengths and weaknesses highlighted. But players with NRL potential (including many who will never play first grade) aren’t told outright that they are no chance. That’s just how the players (or their parents) justify it when they take a better offer from a club that rates them more highly.

How could the Eels make a better assessment of Stone than the Tigers, when they were the ones closely observing him in training every week? I reckon he just fit our criteria better than theirs and we made a better offer. Then to justify it to himself Stone says "Well they told me I was too small."

It's like how the Tigers pinched our star Harold Matts halfback Mitch Moses. They made a better offer, we wouldn't match it, and then his memory of "Mitch, you'll always be a bit skinny, so you need to work hard on your defensive technique." becomes "You're too f**ken small for first grade merkin! You'll never amount to anything!" It's bullshit. It's the kind of narrative league journalists love.

f**k i love when you talk like this. It kind of turns me on.

 

[hindy111]

Before moving to the Roosters before moving to Cronulla before moving to Penrith. 5 clubs! Even if we did keep him initially, he would've gone sooner rather than later I think.

Except most clubs under valued him. The roosters at star went hard for him and he delivered but then thought Pierce was their man so under valued Maloney. The sharks striked. He again delivered but due to age they also under valued him.
So panthers come in who I reckon over valued him due to age.

 

[hindy111]

Id rather Norman and Moses over Keary so dumb point. Or would anyone here trade either for him?

The bigger cock ups arent letting an 18yld go who is still 3yrs away from beeing developed. Its letting a 22yld/23yld go you have developed, put time in and even believed was a first grader but didnt see them as a good one.

Gutherson + Brown come to mind.

Teams dont give a shit if they lose a Vave,Smith,Matagi and I doubt we care losing a Twal, Alioi or Matterson. We are stronger without them and found far better bargains who could make us stronger

 

[Soren Lorenson]

Except most clubs under valued him. The roosters at star went hard for him and he delivered but then thought Pierce was their man so under valued Maloney. The sharks striked. He again delivered but due to age they also under valued him.
So panthers come in who I reckon over valued him due to age.

Yes, my point is there's little point in crying over lost juniors. It's not the olden days where players stayed at the one local club for their entire careers on the basis of a handshake. Fans, including me, hate to think that loyalty is dead especially when you get to like a player, but that's the reality of it.

 

[The Colonel]

Exactly and W-T slipped under our guard and got him first. So was Keary but we said he was too small for fg, that was good judgement. Same with Maloney, I don't know what happened to him, but he did play a few games I believe before going elsewhere. In our dim dark days of the spoon how much better would we be with Maloney guiding us around (yes I know we had a shit team but would it be as shitty with a decent half to guide us?).

Tigers didn’t slip under our guard. We had picked him because they didn’t originally. He played a good season in Matts and then Uncle Benny came in and tried to get the club to sign him to a long term deal and used us and the Tigers to get a better deal. He was always going to the Tigers at some stage because of his family ties.

Keary was deemed to small and it’s a hard job for recruiters to make the call between a couple of players who they may or not make it. Still took four more years and a trip to Burleigh Bears for a season to make first grade after a failed stint at Manly.

Maloney should have been given a go, no doubt about it either but he still went to two more clubs before he was considered a regular first grader.

 

[Soren Lorenson]

Id rather Norman and Moses over Keary so dumb point. Or would anyone here trade either for him?

The bigger c**k ups arent letting an 18yld go who is still 3yrs away from beeing developed. Its letting a 22yld/23yld go you have developed, put time in and even believed was a first grader but didnt see them as a good one.

Gutherson + Brown come to mind.

Teams dont give a shit if they lose a Vave,Smith,Matagi and I doubt we care losing a Twal, Alioi or Matterson. We are stronger without them and found far better bargains who could make us stronger

Its not a cock up if you have a player in that position who is as good if not better. It's the whole point of the salary cap. It just looks bad when the player goes to a new club and goes well and that's not even taking into account the way a player responds to a new system/coach/finding a new root in the western suburbs etc.

 

[84 Baby]

The other thing is there are no guarantees that players will develop like they had if they stayed at club. Gallen is prime example. He went from being just another big motor, undersized small fish in a f**king big lake to pretty much the only fish in a Gallen-sized pond. With the motivating ammunition that we thought he was shit.
I guess one player I missed off list was T-Rex. But I have no doubt that Moanly took a massive risk on him. And as above I highly doubt, he'd have played as much 1st grade if he stayed with us

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So really you're crying over Maloney, a young Klemmer, occasionally Tupou and maybe Twal, Matterson & Fuimaono & perhaps you'll get to justify your whinging over Keppie. And given the time span over losing those players, it's hardly an epidemic. But whinge on!

And how many clubs lower than us on the table had to watch their juniors star in our top four side last year?

Dragons: King, Scott
Knights: Smith
Panthers: Jennings, Vave
Seagulls: Edwards, Gutherson
Sharks: Takairangi
Tigers: Brown
Warriors: Matagi, Ma'u

But even more telling is the clubs whose juniors play for us, but who still finished ahead of us on the ladder:

Broncos: Alvaro, Hoffman, Norman
Storm: Auva'a

These prove that losing a player to another club's successful NRL team doesn't necessarily mean your own team suffered a net loss.

 

[84 Baby]

Id rather Norman and Moses over Keary so dumb point. Or would anyone here trade either for him?

The bigger c**k ups arent letting an 18yld go who is still 3yrs away from beeing developed. Its letting a 22yld/23yld go you have developed, put time in and even believed was a first grader but didnt see them as a good one.

Gutherson + Brown come to mind.

Teams dont give a shit if they lose a Vave,Smith,Matagi and I doubt we care losing a Twal, Alioi or Matterson. We are stronger without them and found far better bargains who could make us stronger

I don't reckon any club loses too many unwillingly in that early 20s stage. Gunco had massive injuries & Trbujhgikijksicevic in front of him. Brown had discipline issues, the Souths pack in front of him & Souths had cap issues. Most players in that range move for similar issues, or getting massive overs that original club can't match. Or clubs get caught in bad positions, think back to Willie Tonga leaving because he had 2 international class centres in front of him, or "Why Jamie Lyon is a f**kwit of the highest order"

 

[84 Baby]

And how many clubs lower than us on the table had to watch their juniors star in our top four side last year?

Dragons: King, Scott
Knights: Smith
Panthers: Jennings, Vave
Seagulls: Edwards, Gutherson
Sharks: Takairangi
Tigers: Brown
Warriors: Matagi, Ma'u

But even more telling is the clubs whose juniors play for us, but who still finished ahead of us on the ladder:

Broncos: Alvaro, Hoffman, Norman
Storm: Auva'a

These prove that losing a player to another club's successful NRL team doesn't necessarily mean your own team suffered a net loss.

WRONG! Other clubs don't lose juniors they want to keep and we have live off the dregs that they leave for us and the shit juniors we keep.
NOO! DON"T LEAVE JARRYD!

 

[hindy111]

I don't reckon any club loses too many unwillingly in that early 20s stage. Gunco had massive injuries & Trbujhgikijksicevic in front of him. Brown had discipline issues, the Souths pack in front of him & Souths had cap issues. Most players in that range move for similar issues, or getting massive overs that original club can't match. Or clubs get caught in bad positions, think back to Willie Tonga leaving because he had 2 international class centres in front of him, or "Why Jamie Lyon is a f**kwit of the highest order"

Gutherson debut at centre while they went and signed Walker so no need for Gutherson.

 

[hindy111]

WRONG! Other clubs don't lose juniors they want to keep and we have live off the dregs that they leave for us and the shit juniors we keep.
NOO! DON"T LEAVE JARRYD!

Neither do we. Why we kept Bevan and Tepai.

What would of you paid for Jnr? Would you swap him for Nathan Brown +Alvaro+Evans if got to keep Jnr along with Twal and Alioi.
Id say would of cost same as a 3 man package.

 

[hindy111]

Think of it like a business. You cant have one without it effecting another so unless you factor that in its pointless.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Gutherson debut at centre while they went and signed Walker so no need for Gutherson.

Exactly. They didn’t have a top 17 spot for him, whereas we did.

 

[84 Baby]

Gutherson debut at centre while they went and signed Walker so no need for Gutherson.

Clearly FB is his best position though. So they would have valued his services differently as a backline fill in player as opposed to their best fullback. I'm under no pretenses about how much players are currently being paid, but do you think once Gunco's contract is up, assuming he keeps playing to his current standard, that we won't have serious cap considerations to .. consider? And we'll be in a similar situation (except I can't be f'ed looking at who's off contract when) with Gunco & French as Manly were with Gunco & Trbbghsjkasdevic

Neither do we. Why we kept Bevan and Tepai.

What would of you paid for Jnr? Would you swap him for Nathan Brown +Alvaro+Evans if got to keep Jnr along with Twal and Alioi.
Id say would of cost same as a 3 man package.

I'm thinking you missed point of my post...