Parramatta Eels Juniors

[hindy111]

Well I’m sure we paid more than the Sharks were offering to poach Salmon. And he’s nowhere near ready for first grade.
I’m sure we rated them less than Manly and Wests. Or maybe we just had less need for them than Wests (this year) or Manly (next year). We have a full pack this year, and I can’t see how Twal would’ve gotten the same opportunity if he’d stayed. As for 2019, if Manly have offered a top 30 spot why would we match it? Ray Stone is a better player and we will surely be wanting to promote him. We also need to find cash to retain Brown, Alvaro and who knows whom else. We could’ve probably fit Keppie in for next year but why match a top 30 spot if we don’t think he’s worth it?

I hope so but I reckon the only possible debutant for 2018 will be Niukore. If we lose both our hookers plus Will Smith (possible I guess) we might see Mahoney in the NRL too.

GL if goes well. And althoughnplayed first grade Davis and Jennings will plays some first grade imo.

 

[hindy111]

Beau Scott still adds some sort of intensoty to the team. He should be rest 1 every 4 games imo.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Yes like we did with Salmon ,Stone,GL,Niakuore, Mahoney, Schneider.

Stone was told he was too small at the tigers. GL supposedly had a bad attitude at the titans. The dogs signed Joey Tramontana from us telling Mahoney he wasn't wanted. Schneider was told by Newcastle that he'd never make first grade.

Not all juniors are "stolen"

 

[Glenneel]

You're coming at it from the wrong direction.

The point isn't to bring kids all the way from your junior system to first grade - that is just a means to an end. The desired end state is to have a strong NRL squad, and it doesn't actually matter where the players come from, as you correctly identify. Sure it's good to bring kids through the grades, but keeping them all isn't the priority. The reason you develop them is so that you have options if you need them. If you don't need them (or some other club makes a stupid offer) you let them go and spend your money sensibly somewhere else.

Pou, and I'm coming at this from an accountant's perspective, Parra Footy lost $10m last year and $12m the previous year, and these are staggering and unsustainable amounts. If the salary of the NRL players is covered where are all the other costs coming from? There are merchandise sales, gameday crowd receipts and sponsorships that offset the other costs yet we're still spending well in excess of that.

Regarding the return on juniors, if we are spending $2m/pa on juniors and getting no result then that imo is wasted money. We'd be better just spending minimal amounts and raiding the other's nurseries and that is a cheap means to an end. Btw I think the NRL should give clubs extra money to develop juniors, the more you spend the bigger the grant the NRL gives with an upper limit. Additionally if clubs poach your juniors there should be a payment made to the developing club to offset part of their costs. Those clubs that spend big on juniors need to be compensated by some manner otherwise sometime in the future the spending will cease or reduce as unsustainable. Then all will be poorer because of it.

 

[Glenneel]

Na pretty sure Glenn’s point was the club is shit and we will lose these players because we couldn’t identify how good they were after 5-10 years in our system and they’ll change clubs and carve us up when they finally kickstart their glorious 1st grade career of 10-12 games before never being heard from again

No my point was we are spending a squillion on juniors with virtually no return, none except French has made our team in years and any decent juniors appear to be poached while we sit back wondering how good they'll be. If you look through most teams you can identify Parra juniors that we developed yet we didn't think they were good enough or we waited too long for another team to swoop. And btw 84 I'm trying to have a decent conversation while you're well I don't know what you're doing so best not to say anything.

 

[Happy MEel]

No my point was we are spending a squillion on juniors with virtually no return, none except French has made our team in years and any decent juniors appear to be poached while we sit back wondering how good they'll be. If you look through most teams you can identify Parra juniors that we developed yet we didn't think they were good enough or we waited too long for another team to swoop. And btw 84 I'm trying to have a decent conversation while you're well I don't know what you're doing so best not to say anything.

Tep says hi

 

[Twizzle]

Mitch Moses was an Eels junior too

 

[Glenneel]

Mitch Moses was an Eels junior too

Exactly and W-T slipped under our guard and got him first. So was Keary but we said he was too small for fg, that was good judgement. Same with Maloney, I don't know what happened to him, but he did play a few games I believe before going elsewhere. In our dim dark days of the spoon how much better would we be with Maloney guiding us around (yes I know we had a shit team but would it be as shitty with a decent half to guide us?).

 

[hindy111]

Stone was told he was too small at the tigers. GL supposedly had a bad attitude at the titans. The dogs signed Joey Tramontana from us telling Mahoney he wasn't wanted. Schneider was told by Newcastle that he'd never make first grade.

Not all juniors are "stolen"

Who cares how we got them im glad we looking all over.
How big is Stone any stats?

 

[hindy111]

Exactly and W-T slipped under our guard and got him first. So was Keary but we said he was too small for fg, that was good judgement. Same with Maloney, I don't know what happened to him, but he did play a few games I believe before going elsewhere. In our dim dark days of the spoon how much better would we be with Maloney guiding us around (yes I know we had a shit team but would it be as shitty with a decent half to guide us?).

Juniors in team -
Tepai, Mannah,Hayne,Bevan, T rex, Moses,Terepo,Kaysa

First grade debutants at club

KE, Manu,Alvaro

Guys took chance on

Gutherson,Gower, King,W.Smith,N.Brown, Auvau,Taka.

High paid recruits
Evans,Norman,Scott.


There are plenty of ways to build a strong NRL club. If look at how BA built our team plus a bit of Ricky its been a awesokme job putting this squad together. Its manily juniors, guys others didnt rate and project players.
Great job what club did with KE and Manu. Turned their lives around and they repaid us. Why 2 of my fave players. I coudlnt give a shit if come through juniors.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Exactly and W-T slipped under our guard and got him first. So was Keary but we said he was too small for fg, that was good judgement. Same with Maloney, I don't know what happened to him, but he did play a few games I believe before going elsewhere. In our dim dark days of the spoon how much better would we be with Maloney guiding us around (yes I know we had a shit team but would it be as shitty with a decent half to guide us?).

Maloney made his first grade debut for the storm. He only played 9 games for them before moving to the warriors.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Who cares how we got them im glad we looking all over.
How big is Stone any stats?

Misunderstood your post. Thought you were saying we stole them from their clubs.

Stone is about the same size as Nathan Brown.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Pou, and I'm coming at this from an accountant's perspective, Parra Footy lost $10m last year and $12m the previous year, and these are staggering and unsustainable amounts. If the salary of the NRL players is covered where are all the other costs coming from? There are merchandise sales, gameday crowd receipts and sponsorships that offset the other costs yet we're still spending well in excess of that.

Regarding the return on juniors, if we are spending $2m/pa on juniors and getting no result then that imo is wasted money. We'd be better just spending minimal amounts and raiding the other's nurseries and that is a cheap means to an end. Btw I think the NRL should give clubs extra money to develop juniors, the more you spend the bigger the grant the NRL gives with an upper limit. Additionally if clubs poach your juniors there should be a payment made to the developing club to offset part of their costs. Those clubs that spend big on juniors need to be compensated by some manner otherwise sometime in the future the spending will cease or reduce as unsustainable. Then all will be poorer because of it.

Only raiding other team's juniors is a lot more expensive than bringing them up locally or from a younger age. How much do you think a club like the roosters spend on getting other team's juniors?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Stone was told he was too small at the tigers. GL supposedly had a bad attitude at the titans. The dogs signed Joey Tramontana from us telling Mahoney he wasn't wanted. Schneider was told by Newcastle that he'd never make first grade.

Not all juniors are "stolen"

I don’t believe most of these narratives. I’m sure junior players are given professional assessments by development staff, with their strengths and weaknesses highlighted. But players with NRL potential (including many who will never play first grade) aren’t told outright that they are no chance. That’s just how the players (or their parents) justify it when they take a better offer from a club that rates them more highly.

How could the Eels make a better assessment of Stone than the Tigers, when they were the ones closely observing him in training every week? I reckon he just fit our criteria better than theirs and we made a better offer. Then to justify it to himself Stone says "Well they told me I was too small."

It's like how the Tigers pinched our star Harold Matts halfback Mitch Moses. They made a better offer, we wouldn't match it, and then his memory of "Mitch, you'll always be a bit skinny, so you need to work hard on your defensive technique." becomes "You're too f**ken small for first grade merkin! You'll never amount to anything!" It's bullshit. It's the kind of narrative league journalists love.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Pou, and I'm coming at this from an accountant's perspective, Parra Footy lost $10m last year and $12m the previous year, and these are staggering and unsustainable amounts. If the salary of the NRL players is covered where are all the other costs coming from? There are merchandise sales, gameday crowd receipts and sponsorships that offset the other costs yet we're still spending well in excess of that.

Regarding the return on juniors, if we are spending $2m/pa on juniors and getting no result then that imo is wasted money. We'd be better just spending minimal amounts and raiding the other's nurseries and that is a cheap means to an end. Btw I think the NRL should give clubs extra money to develop juniors, the more you spend the bigger the grant the NRL gives with an upper limit. Additionally if clubs poach your juniors there should be a payment made to the developing club to offset part of their costs. Those clubs that spend big on juniors need to be compensated by some manner otherwise sometime in the future the spending will cease or reduce as unsustainable. Then all will be poorer because of it.

Until this year there were salary caps covering every player from under 20s up to first grade. That's what allows clubs to raid each other's junior systems - because clubs can't stockpile talent, which is a good thing, IMO.

 

[Soren Lorenson]

Maloney made his first grade debut for the storm. He only played 9 games for them before moving to the warriors.

Before moving to the Roosters before moving to Cronulla before moving to Penrith. 5 clubs! Even if we did keep him initially, he would've gone sooner rather than later I think.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

No my point was we are spending a squillion on juniors with virtually no return, none except French has made our team in years and any decent juniors appear to be poached while we sit back wondering how good they'll be. If you look through most teams you can identify Parra juniors that we developed yet we didn't think they were good enough or we waited too long for another team to swoop. And btw 84 I'm trying to have a decent conversation while you're well I don't know what you're doing so best not to say anything.

The following members of our NRL squad played in our junior rep teams:

Alvaro (NYC)
Davis (SG Ball, NYC)
French (SG Ball, NYC)
Hayne (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, Jersey Flegg)
Mannah (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, Jersey Flegg)
Moeroa (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)
Moses (Harold Matthews)
Pritchard (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)
Terepo (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)
Williams (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)

Plus these development players:

Aukafolau (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)
Leleisiuao (NYC)
Mahoney (NYC)
Stone (NYC)

So maybe we've moved toward the poaching players at NYC/Flegg age method you're advocating. I've always thought spending money developing under 18s was a big risk. At least when they're 18 they can be forced to honour a contract.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Exactly and W-T slipped under our guard and got him first. So was Keary but we said he was too small for fg, that was good judgement.

By the time Keary was old enough for under 20s he was living in Queensland. Who cares if he didn't make our Harold Matthews team? He wasn't f**king good enough. Then he played SG Ball for Manly and they didn't keep him either. If he went away and put on some weight and worked on his defence more power to him. When he was finally good enough for the NYC Souths threw him a lifeline. But why should we have persisted with him just because he might've played first grade one day?

Same with Maloney, I don't know what happened to him, but he did play a few games I believe before going elsewhere. In our dim dark days of the spoon how much better would we be with Maloney guiding us around (yes I know we had a shit team but would it be as shitty with a decent half to guide us?).

We had a pretty good NRL side when Maloney left to chase opportunities elsewhere. The year after he left us he played four NRL games and we made the finals despite losing Kris Keating to injury and letting Finch go. And they were both better players than Maloney at the time, as were Jeff Robson and Daniel f**king Mortimer.

This is the point - to keep a young player that isn't ready means persisting with them, and also requires the player to stick around in the lower grades until he is ready for first grade. That's hard to do when other clubs are throwing better offers at him.

 

[hineyrulz]

The following members of our NRL squad played in our junior rep teams:

Alvaro (NYC)
Davis (SG Ball, NYC)
French (SG Ball, NYC)
Hayne (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, Jersey Flegg)
Mannah (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, Jersey Flegg)
Moeroa (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)
Moses (Harold Matthews)
Pritchard (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)
Terepo (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)
Williams (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)

Plus these development players:

Aukafolau (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, NYC)
Leleisiuao (NYC)
Mahoney (NYC)
Stone (NYC)

So maybe we've moved toward the poaching players at NYC/Flegg age method you're advocating. I've always thought spending money developing under 18s was a big risk. At least when they're 18 they can be forced to honour a contract.

This is also what the Roosters have been doing since Smith and O’Sullivan get together.

It’s worked a treat for them.

 

[84 Baby]

No my point was we are spending a squillion on juniors with virtually no return, none except French has made our team in years and any decent juniors appear to be poached while we sit back wondering how good they'll be. If you look through most teams you can identify Parra juniors that we developed yet we didn't think they were good enough or we waited too long for another team to swoop. And btw 84 I'm trying to have a decent conversation while you're well I don't know what you're doing so best not to say anything.

Na you're just trying to badmouth the club like you usually do. Not really decent conversation.
But just for conversation's sake, here's a list of players currently at other clubs (per NRL site) that were our juniors (to the best of my knowledge)
Broncos - Dargan - he'd have probably been behind Smith, Taka & KE for half injury replacements, let alone the more established halves
Dogs - Klemmer - ok he's a bad loss, but he also left at a very young age (I think)
- Reimis Smith - who I hear you say
Cows - Asiata? - decent but hardly an improvement on current stocks
Drags - Latimore & Allgood - enough said + both played 1st grade here
Knights - Sio - been around the world & played 1st grade here
Panfers - Maloney - probably the worst loss of the list
Rabbits - Fuimaono - timing was issue i.e. no spot in 1st grade + better wraps on younger players behind him
Raiders - Paulo - played 1st grade here, "had to leave area"
Rorters - Matterson - maybe
- Keary - 1 good season for Souths
- Tupou - on & off
- Curran - who?
Moanly - Kelepi - played 1st grade for us, how much has he played elsewhere?
- J Wright - no + played 1st grade here
- J Lussick - we stole him from Moanly anyway
- Keppie reportedly - unknown at this stage
Sharks - Gallen - yeah na
Scum - Kamikamica - who?
Tigers - Twal - maybe
- Aloiai & Eisenhuth - probably not

So really you're crying over Maloney, a young Klemmer, occasionally Tupou and maybe Twal, Matterson & Fuimaono & perhaps you'll get to justify your whinging over Keppie. And given the time span over losing those players, it's hardly an epidemic. But whinge on!

Edit - just because - of the 23 player listed there, 6 played 1st grade for us & Lussick is hardly our junior. From the remaining 16 there are 3 Aus reps (also being 2 premiers & a grand finalist) + 2 more premiers (not including Kamikamica) + 1 grand finalist, but to counter that Klemmer & Gallen left in what SG Ball? Did Keary even play Parra juniors or was he just from catchment area? In summation, I don't expect a reply