Parramatta - from the ashes......

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

you could say smith was so good, the nrl was forced to make changes to stunt his team

LOL

Hollywood Jesus, can I call you HJ?

You sound a bit like an apologist. B. Smith had decent cattle and 2003 was a poor year. If R. Stuart was in charge of that cattle, I'm sure Parramatta would have made the 8.

B. Smith needs a change.

 

[Eelementary]

Gee, I hope you're right.

Great post, mate. Set out your point clearly.

But I ask - will it be any different to any other years?

The signings we made were good and all that, but we need a complete attitude revamp. I mean, if our star players aren't performing, then drop them, right? Wrong - we NEED those star players. And hence we face the dilemma - to drop or not to drop?

The only thing stopping us from success is attitude. And part of this attitude should be instilled by the coach. Brian should not tolerate a loss anymore.

We may all make fun of Ricky Stuart for his constant whinging, but what is his record again? Oh yes - 2 Grand Finals, 1 won. In 2 years of First Grade NRL coaching.

If we lose, the coach should be furious.

And he needs to fire up the players more.

 

[MR GEORGE]

we have bought well in 2004.

 

[Trader]

Agree with Pazza and Eelavation in that Armit is the player most likely,he is one tough amigo.Tall,strong and works very hard,not lazy.

Muspratt is an underrated player and could shock a few people,good ball player and can also defend.

 

[Chipmunk]

The only thing stopping us from success is attitude. And part of this attitude should be instilled by the coach. Brian should not tolerate a loss anymore.

ABSOLUTELY 100% CORRECT

 

[Pazza]

You really need to question some of Smith's desisions such as leaving Jason Cayless out of those so called Physical clashes in 2001 for Alex Chan. If you saw Jason Cayless against the Australians yesterday you can see that he doesn't have a problem with agression. Both the Cayless brothers ripped into the Australian props and really dominated them in defence. And to think that could have been the Parra front row, it just pains me so much.

Also leaving Justin Tsoulos out of the last games of this year in favour of players such as Steven Crouch, Darren Tracey! How has that helped the future of the club? Really, that experiance would have been gold for such a youngster, going into the offseason in the first grade side and see what he needs to do to improve his game to gain a full time spot.

 

[Misty Bee]

I don't buy HJ's apologies for Smiths failures, because ALL CLUBS had signed their players by the same time. Parra and Cronulla were the only ones caught out.

This year, Smith has got his big ugly blokes. He has befed up the forwards on paper, but I thnik it's fair to say that for Parra to sucees, these new boys, especially cannings,Muspratt, Muckert and McKinnon need toplay better football than they have at any stage of their careers. We haven't signed any guaranteed problem solvers, like Vagana at Cronulla.

Howev er, Brian Smith has drawn the oine in the sand that will determine his coaching future. Parra must get back to the top 4 (forget just making the 8, the top 4 is where the serious players are). Wether it ahppens, only time will tell.

However, plenty of clubs have had big cleanouts and come up trumps. In fact, that's exactly what Jack Gibson did inlate 1980. Worked for him.

 

[Eelementary]

I agree.

I wasn't exactly JC's biggest fan, but after watching him tear the Aussies apart ...

I WANT HIM BACK NOW! And he looked like he loved playing with Nathan again!

 

[Stagger eel]

Pazza: the JC you saw play yesterday isn't the same player in 2001! have you ever stopped to think that maybe he developed into the sort of player he is due to the Roosters coaching staff??....what I feared most about Jason leaving at the end of 01 was how he was about 8 to 12 months away from being the player he is today. Suffice to say, I was right.

Misty: If we finished 5th to 8th at the start of playoffs and stormed home to win the comp would you still repect Smith in the morning. Mate if we're still in the picture by the end of the 26th round we can stake a major claim.

 

[Suitman]

I agree with Misty on this one regarding Hj's comments.

I am sick to death of hearing lame excuses as to why Parra didn't perform this season.
I will only hold up that injuries played a part. Just a part. Everyone gets injuries, and its the depth that should cover it.
Well, how many times have we won the Club Championship lately????
Come on you defenders. How many eh???
Then where was our depth?? It was there. Just never given a chance. Forget Tsoulos against Newcastle, and Witts introduction. These were forced on Smith by injury.

And now, after a season of lame excuses, HJ comes up with his piece de resistance........ Brian Smith had already bought all his players before Ricky Stuart became a trend setter and coached his team in such a way that changed the game, and its rules.

Spare Me HJ. THAT IS JUST PATHETIC.

Have you ever considered, just for one moment, that it is remotely possible, that Smith might just have lagged behind the times a little, and it has taken him a season to catch up?
Or that Ricky Stuart is the most progressive coach in the League.
I'm surprised that you, of all people, have fallen for the propaganda sprouted by the club at the coaches forum mid season.
No wonder I didn't go that night.

By the way Colonel, Great Post. Full of sensible logic.
Not pathetic, one eyed excuses.

And one last thing HJ.
After Round 20 last year, Ricky Stuarts boys went on to win the NRL.
Then, for your recollection, they were this years Grand Finalists.
What have WE done during that time? So before you start hacking (your word) on Ricky Stuart and the Roosters, I'd suggest you actually take a long hard look at our season, and our club again.
If Parramatta had made 3 out of the last four Grand Finals, and won one, like the Roosters had, then this discussion wouldn't be taking place.
But we haven't. And you apologists can make all the excuses you like.

Suity

 

[Redback71]

great post and agree with

Competition for positions, which has not been seen since 2001, will be unrivalled. New signings will be keen to impress, youngsters keen to shine and take the next step and regulars will be looking over their shoulders for the first time in a long time.

100% competition within the ranks will make a big difference after all if u dont perform to your abilities there is someone else nipping at your ankles and that will make the world of difference.

cant wait till 2004!

 

[Pazza]

Pazza: the JC you saw play yesterday isn't the same player in 2001! have you ever stopped to think that maybe he developed into the sort of player he is due to the Roosters coaching staff??....what I feared most about Jason leaving at the end of 01 was how he was about 8 to 12 months away from being the player he is today. Suffice to say, I was right.

Thank you Captain obvious!!!!

My post was a direct criticism on the coaching staff’s ability to identify talent in our own ranks and develop it.

 

[half]

yeah they totally fluked it with hindy and lyon. pfft

 

[Pazza]

What about Marsh, J Cayless, Clinton, Tonga, Robinson and Galea?

 

[fish eel]

Pazza

Robinson has been a bit part player at the roosters, nothing more nothing less and would have been the same here....likewise Ben Galea, you'll have to do better than that. As for Tonga, well they didnt let him go, offered him quite a good contract but he wanted to go where he he thought he was best guaranteed a start - to much competition in the centres for him here.

I'll grant you Jason Cayless and PJ Marsh though.....

 

[The Colonel]

Or that Ricky Stuart is the most progressive coach in the League.

I have to disagree with this one. I actually don't find him particularly progressive however he is extremely good at pushing the rules as they currently stand. He has also managed to work well with the players his predecessors have managed to bring into and through the club.

By round 20 time the contracts had already been signed and sealed and Smith was stuck with his 2003 side that wasn't able to play the style of footy that was developed after the contract signing period was over.

Yes and no - if the club wanted to adjust its roster before the 2003 season it would and could have done quite easily provided they were willing to take over contracts. Buettner was let go well after round 20 if I remember rightly as well. Solomona and Widders were shopped around again as well. There were a few players that other clubs were willing to let go but didn't........

Also Stuart had been trying to work the style that took them to the GF for some time - not just after rd 20. Injuries played a major part in the start of their season and it wasn't until later in the year they managed to head where they wanted.

I have backed Smith nine times out of ten but I have to say he did try and stick with the a style of play he was lead to believe would work and was unwilling to change. In his favour he has seen the light and managed to go the way he has for next season.

My post was a direct criticism on the coaching staff’s ability to identify talent in our own ranks and develop it.

I think you will find that it wasn't so much the fact that the club was unable to identify the talent of young JC - far from it. They were unable to offer

a) The dollars for another front rower who would develop the way he has.

b) the first grade starting position ahead of then two Test forwards in his brother and Vella.

They were also unable to foresee how Vella's form would disappear after the 2001 GF and the injuries his brother would face. They did however try and make up for this by purchasing another prop in Heckenberg who was untried in first grade. He has now gone a similar way to that of JC.

 

[Pazza]

Ben Galea is a very underrated player, just cause you play for wests doesn't always mean your shit :lol:

 

[The Colonel]

Ben Galea is a very underrated player, just cause you play for wests doesn't always mean your sh*t :lol:

He is underrated however I think you will find injury will have ruined what was potentially a long first grade career. He will be a bench player at best now with the Tigers as he has injured his shoulder again.


Joel Clinton - I wish people would stop harping on how we let him go. When he was let go he is the first to admit he had done bugger all at the Eels. He had played a few good games and was resting on his laurels and did not display the same attitude he took to the Panthers. He decided once he had been let go to prove himself wrong and that he could play first grade.

Marsh left because his manager was a bit quick to sign a letter of intent before the June 30 deadline and didn't wait to see what the Eels had offered. If you remember rightly at the time he tried all he could to not sign a contract and stay at the Eels when he heard what they had offered.

Was Tonga honestly going to play ahead of Lyon, Vaealiki, Burt or Graham in the centres? He went where there was an oppurtunity for him to play first grade.

 

[The Godfather]

The key is Michael Witt.

Go on all you want about how the game has changed, it's now a forwards game, rules have come in, Smith hasn't adapted etc etc etc...

All the premiership winning teams have a gun halfback

Whether Parramatta are premiers or a team that will give the premiership a real go but once again fall short will depend very heavily on the performance of the #7.

Brian Smith has done a great job at Parramatta, but the one area that has been a disappointment is the halfback. John Simon, David Penna, Ben Kusto, Jason Taylor, Andrew McFadden, Brad Drew, PJ Marsh, Paul Green...it's been a position where there has been an extremly high turnover and it's been a postion where Smith has really struggled to get some consistent performers.

Maybe 2004 is too early for Michael to develop, and realistically while the Eels will do well, maybe a premiership is out of reach in 2004

 

[fish eel]

Ben Galea is a very underrated player, just cause you play for wests doesn't always mean your sh*t :lol:

Yes....he is underrated and I dont think anyone has said he cant play, however I dont think Parramatta have missed him!